COLLAGEN CONFUSION

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Plastic surgeons have promoted the idea of injecting collagen into tissues with the argument that they are "replacing collagen lost with aging," but in fact collagen accumulates with aging. It is the greater compactness and stiffness of collagen in old skin that produces noticeable changes such as wrinkling.” Ray Peat

 

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“The meat industry is interested in reducing the toughness of meat, by influencing the nature of the collagen in muscle. Castrated animals were found to produce meat that was tenderer than that of intact males. When castrated animals were treated with testosterone, the amount of collagen was increased, making the meat tougher. But when dihydrotestoserone, which can't be converted to estrogen was used, the meat didn't become tough. Treatment with estrogen produced the same increase of collagen as treatment with testosterone, showing that testosterone's effect was mainly the result of its conversion to estrogen (Miller, et al., 1990).” -Ray Peat

 

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“Moderate methionine restriction (for example, using gelatin regularly in the diet) might be practical, but if increased carbon dioxide can activate the demethylase enzymes in a controlled way, it might be a useful treatment for the degenerative diseases and for aging itself. “ -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

This hopeful bit of information was posted by ironfist in another thread….

“Among a sample of 30 randomized subjects the dGEMRIC score increased in the medial and lateral tibial regions of interest (median increase of 29 and 41 ms respectively) in participants assigned to collagen hydrolysate but decreased (median decline 37 and 36 ms respectively) in the placebo arm with the changes between the two groups at 24 weeks reaching significance. No other significant changes between the two groups were seen in the other four regions, or in any of the T2 values or in the clinical outcomes.“

Change in knee osteoarthritis cartilage detected by delayed gadolinium enhanced magnetic resonance imaging following treatment with collagen hydrolysate: a pilot randomized controlled trial - PubMed

These preliminary results suggest that the dGEMRIC technique may be able to detect change in proteoglycan content in knee cartilage among individuals taking collagen hydrolysate after 24 weeks.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[joaquin]

Frank Tufano had a video out recently claiming the collagen powders are full of junk.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Frank Tufano had a video out recently claiming the collagen powders are full of junk.

Jennifer Aniston endorses Vital Proteins. A “Terms & Conditions” statement right in your face right when you open the can! Nestle having a part in Vital Proteins says enough. Corn is from grass, but can it really slip in to be considered grass-fed? I always wondered how collagen could be as good as gelatin, being processed beyond what gelatin goes through.

 

[amd]

"Nestlé Health Science acquired a majority stake in Vital Proteins in 2020."

 

[joaquin]

Jennifer Aniston endorses Vital Proteins. A “Terms & Conditions” statement right in your face right when you open the can! Nestle having a part in Vital Proteins says enough. Corn is from grass, but can it really slip in to be considered grass-fed? I always wondered how collagen could be as good as gelatin, being processed beyond what gelatin goes through.

Aniston also endorsed the devil shots so she is a property of the WEF.

 

[ironfist]

"It happens that gelatin is a protein which contains no tryptophan, and only small amounts of cysteine, methionine, and histidine. Using gelatin as a major dietary protein is an easy way to restrict the amino acids that are associated with many of the problems of aging." -Ray Peat

Yeah, but it's not really useful for building muscle. I think I read somewhere that you can't really use collagen as your primary source of protein. I basically don't want people to see this and think "oh, cool, collagen is inexpensive(?), I can use it to supplement protein!" You can't. It doesn't do the same thing.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Yeah, but it's not really useful for building muscle. I think I read somewhere that you can't really use collagen as your primary source of protein. I basically don't want people to see this and think "oh, cool, collagen is inexpensive(?), I can use it to supplement protein!" You can't. It doesn't do the same thing.

Personally I use gelatin sources along with proteins. I put collagen in milk and have it with an egg, something like that. As for your comment I agree with Ray Peat’s statement. Not everyone is eating protein to build muscle, so his suggestion is a wise one for people fighting cancer or for those fending off others sick conditions, or just as a precaution. Our meats are eaten out of context of which they were intended. Collagen goes with meats not starches.

 

[ironfist]

@Rinse & rePeat Interesting you mention that. I've seen businesses sell collagen mixed in with protein.

But I've seen other guidelines saying not to mix them.

In fact, one manufacturer (I forget who) had a blog on their site saying collagen should be used distinctly, away from other proteins... and then they were selling this protein powder with collagen in it. lol.

A further site I saw had an essay about why collagen is inferior (because it's incomplete) so they added the missing amino to it making it "better" or something. lol. Collagen is literally collagen BECAUSE it doesn't have that amino acid in it. That's like saying dairy free cheese is inferior because it doesn't have dairy, so we added dairy to it... and are selling it as dairy free. wat?

My point was that collagen doesn't build muscle, so if someone is taking it imagining it's going to build or repair muscle, it's not. I would imagine someone eating only collagen would find themselves in pretty bad shape.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

@Rinse & rePeat Interesting you mention that. I've seen businesses sell collagen mixed in with protein.

But I've seen other guidelines saying not to mix them.

In fact, one manufacturer (I forget who) had a blog on their site saying collagen should be used distinctly, away from other proteins... and then they were selling this protein powder with collagen in it. lol.

A further site I saw had an essay about why collagen is inferior (because it's incomplete) so they added the missing amino to it making it "better" or something. lol. Collagen is literally collagen BECAUSE it doesn't have that amino acid in it. That's like saying dairy free cheese is inferior because it doesn't have dairy, so we added dairy to it... and are selling it as dairy free. wat?

My point was that collagen doesn't build muscle, so if someone is taking it imagining it's going to build or repair muscle, it's not. I would imagine someone eating only collagen would find themselves in pretty bad shape.

Yeah I imagine eating just collagen would make for ill health. I don’t think I have heard Ray Peat recommend it. I am making a gelatinous beef bone broth as I type!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Gelatin (the cooked form of collagen) makes up about 50% of the protein in an animal, but a much smaller percentage in the more active tissues, such as brain, muscle, and liver. 35% of the amino acids in gelatin are glycine, 11% alanine, and 21% proline and hydroxyproline.” -Ray Peat

 

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“Gelatin and glycine have recently been reported to facilitate the action of insulin in lowering blood sugar and alleviating diabetes. Gelatin has been used successfully to treat diabetes for over 100 years” -Ray Peat

 

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“At the time Selye was observing stress-induced bleeding, standard medicine was putting gelatin to use--orally, subcutaneously, and intravenously--to control bleeding. Since ancient times, it had been used to stop bleeding by applying it to wounds, and this had finally been incorporated into medical practice.” -Ray Peat

 

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“The 1936 Cyclopedia of Medicine (G.M. Piersol, editor, volume 6) mentions the use of gelatin solution to quickly control nosebleeds, excessive menstrual bleeding, bleeding ulcers (using three doses of 18 grams as a 10% solution during one day), and bleeding from hemorrhoids and the lower bowel, and hemorrhage from the bladder. But since Selye's work relating the thrombohemorrhagic syndromes to stress wasn't known at that time, gelatin was thought of as a useful drug, rather than as having potentially far-reaching physiological effects, antagonizing some of the agents of stress-induced tissue damage.“ -Ray Peat

 

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“Inflammation produces fibrosis, because stress, hypoxia, and inadequate supply of glucose stimulate the fibroblasts to produce increased amounts of collagen. In lungs, kidneys, liver, and other tissues, glycine protects against fibrosis, the opposite of what the traditional view would suggest.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“To any folks I’ve suggested now brands to, and if your digestive symptoms have persisted, I apologize if you’ve been as hindered by now brands as I!”

Gelatin (Now brand) indigestion

Well, I suppose I’m a great N1 for Now Brands gelatin. I’ve used it for well over a year as my sole source of Gelatin. —— TLDR: Now Brands left me with bad results, beef tendons do fine. Looking at Knox Brand gelatin. I’ve suggested it to people on this forum cuz it’s so cheap, but, now please...

raypeatforum.com

 

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“Using Environmental Protection Agency Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (EPA 6020A, 3015) at 8 parts per billion, they discovered the following from 28 brands that were evaluated:

• 64% tested positive for measurable levels of arsenic
• 37% tested positive for measurable levels of lead
• 34% tested positive for trace levels of mercury
• 17% tested positive for measurable levels of cadmium

We made sure to include the results from this report in our overall findings below on collagen protein powders & best collagen supplements, but note that Ancient Nutrition, Bulletproof, Orgain & Preferred Elements had levels of lead above what the State of California recommends as safe. Ancient Nutrition, Correxiko, Orgain, Organixx, Reserveage Nutrition, & Vital Proteins had trace amounts of mercury. Bulletproof tested high for Cadmium.”

Best & Worst Collagen 2020: Nature's Jello & It's Benefits

Collagen peptides & gelatin are $120 million dollar industry. Mamavation ranked the most popular brands without heavy metals.

www.mamavation.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

This statement below is still giving me collagen confusion. Don’t we want to create collagen for good skin and other functions of youth?


“The extracellular medium changes during the development of a tumor. Irritated hypoxic cells, and estrogen-stimulated cells, increase their production of collagen, and the increase of collagen interferes with normal cell functions. Progesterone reduces the formation of collagen, and probably contributes to its removal.” -Ray Peat