Colic, Fussy, Baby

kaybb

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Jun 24, 2015
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499
We have a six week old nursing baby who is crying a lot and acts like he is in pain. I have read similar threads on colic and we are trying some suggestions. I would like to know if anyone has some advice on how to treat colic/crying, miserable baby. I am the grandma and have been following Ray Peat methods and also have shared these with my family so the mom and dad are open to information
(Already addressed reflux).
 

dd99

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Apr 26, 2014
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434
I'm sorry to hear that - it's exhausting for parent and baby. We just had our second and he went through this, too. He had (still has) a big appetite and his stomach would get too full, so when he lay down he would scream as the contents of his stomach (and acid) would come up into his throat (but he wouldn't vomit). We basically held him upright at night until he grew out of it, I.e. his stomach grew - around 10 weeks. I'm sorry I can't offer an easier solution. Some people put probiotics on the mother's nipple, but that didn't help us.
 

schultz

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Jul 29, 2014
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I suspect, and some research supports, that serotonin is involved in colic. If this is the case then you can either try to directly lower the gut serotonin and/or work backwards to try and figure out what is causing high serotonin in the first place.

If it were my child I would first try progesterone. I'm sure progesterone would work in a number of ways, and one of these may be a relaxing of the GI muscle. It may directly lower gut serotonin production as well, but I haven't looked into this. There was, however, a study involving progesterone and colic...

A study of the possible relationship of progesterone to colic. - PubMed - NCBI.

Here is the abstract:::

"A series of 15 noncolic infants ranging in age from 6 days to 3 months was studied to determine pregnanediol glucuronide (PDG) excretion in urine. All these infants showed appreciable PDG spots by sensitive chromatographic techniques. In contrast, eight "colic" infants were studied, and it was found that these infants excreted none or only trace amounts of PDG in their urines. Seven other "colic" infants also showed no urinary PDG spots before hormone administration but demonstrated remission of symptoms and chromatographic spots after treatment. It is suggested that one cause of colic may involve progesterone deficiency and that in such instances the symptoms may be alleviated by the administration of a short course of oral progestational hormone."

Something like progest-e also has vitamin E which may also help with the health of the infant.

The second thing I would try would be for the mother to take daily aspirin. Aspirin does countless things and one of those is the decreased production of prostaglandin. Prostaglandin in the infants stomach could cause smooth muscle contraction and possibly inflammation and pain. I suspect the aspirin would work by lower the prostaglandin production of the mother, and therefore lowering it in the mothers milk. Some aspirin would also go into the milk and the baby would be getting a bit of aspirin. Many people are scared of aspirin though, especially in regards to babies. However, there was a study done using aspirin to treat colic...

Infantile colic and aspirin. - PubMed - NCBI

... but I couldn't find the full study or even the abstract. I did find other studies talking about the aspirin study though. Here is what I found...

"The improvements in the infantile colic symptoms seen with acetylsalicyclic acid ingestion might therefore be attributed to the TNFα-based pathway. A new theory proposed in this paper is that TNFα in the mother’s milk might influence the metabolism of melatonin and serotonin in the infant, and that these are major components in the pathophysiology of infantile colic."

...and...

"Another factor [regarding colic] may be prostaglandins affecting smooth muscle contraction. Maternal ingestion of prostaglandin synthetase inhibitors (aspirin) reduced colic symptoms in breastfed infants [cites the aspirin study]"

If both of these things - aspirin and progesterone - didn't help I would try cyproheptadine. Cyproheptadine is frequently used in infants already for pruritus at doses around 2mg and in toddlers who to stimulate appetite, so it's considered safe. In an infant with colic it may help to both lower serotonin and increase the appetite. I couldn't find any studies on this, though I didn't look too hard. The mother could also try cyproheptadine.

Here are some more quotes I've found...

"As shown in our results, serotonin levels are high in colicky babies, which is reflected by increased urinary 5-OH IAA levels. Body serotonin, found mostly in the gastrointestinal tract, has many sites of action within the bowel, affecting epithelial secretion and muscular contraction as well as neuronal transmittance."

"Levels of 5-hydroxy-3-indole acetic acid (5-OH IAA), a metabolite of serotonin, were studied in infants with infantile colic in order to investigate the aetiology of infantile colic: urinary 5-OH IAA levels in infants with colic were found to be higher than those in the control group. Peak serotonin levels cause intestinal cramps associated with colic because serotonin increases intestinal smooth muscle contractions. Intestinal cramps caused by serotonin are unopposed by melatonin during the first 3 months of life because only serotonin circadian rhythms are present at birth and melatonin circadian rhythms do not appear until the age of 3 months, the time at which colicky cramps disappear."
 

dfspcc20

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Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
633
The advice in the book "Happiest Baby on the Block" by Harvey Karp worked for my two kids when they were very young. I (the dad) was actually able to get the kids to fall asleep and give my wife a bit of a break. It only worked for the first 3 months or so, though.
You're basically trying to imitate the sensation of being in the womb (i.e. the "4th trimester").
He has a DVD; there is probably stuff on YouTube as well.
 
OP
kaybb

kaybb

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Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
499
I'm sorry to hear that - it's exhausting for parent and baby. We just had our second and he went through this, too. He had (still has) a big appetite and his stomach would get too full, so when he lay down he would scream as the contents of his stomach (and acid) would come up into his throat (but he wouldn't vomit). We basically held him upright at night until he grew out of it, I.e. his stomach grew - around 10 weeks. I'm sorry I can't offer an easier solution. Some people put probiotics on the mother's nipple, but that didn't help us.
Thank you so much for the sympathy ;). Sorry you had to deal with this also. And yes we are all so worn out but hopefully he will also outgrow it soon! I am going to share your comments with the mother...won't hurt trying :) .
 
OP
kaybb

kaybb

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
499
I suspect, and some research supports, that serotonin is involved in colic. If this is the case then you can either try to directly lower the gut serotonin and/or work backwards to try and figure out what is causing high serotonin in the first place.

If it were my child I would first try progesterone. I'm sure progesterone would work in a number of ways, and one of these may be a relaxing of the GI muscle. It may directly lower gut serotonin production as well, but I haven't looked into this. There was, however, a study involving progesterone and colic...

A study of the possible relationship of progesterone to colic. - PubMed - NCBI.

Here is the abstract:::

"A series of 15 noncolic infants ranging in age from 6 days to 3 months was studied to determine pregnanediol glucuronide (PDG) excretion in urine. All these infants showed appreciable PDG spots by sensitive chromatographic techniques. In contrast, eight "colic" infants were studied, and it was found that these infants excreted none or only trace amounts of PDG in their urines. Seven other "colic" infants also showed no urinary PDG spots before hormone administration but demonstrated remission of symptoms and chromatographic spots after treatment. It is suggested that one cause of colic may involve progesterone deficiency and that in such instances the symptoms may be alleviated by the administration of a short course of oral progestational hormone."

Something like progest-e also has vitamin E which may also help with the health of the infant.

The second thing I would try would be for the mother to take daily aspirin. Aspirin does countless things and one of those is the decreased production of prostaglandin. Prostaglandin in the infants stomach could cause smooth muscle contraction and possibly inflammation and pain. I suspect the aspirin would work by lower the prostaglandin production of the mother, and therefore lowering it in the mothers milk. Some aspirin would also go into the milk and the baby would be getting a bit of aspirin. Many people are scared of aspirin though, especially in regards to babies. However, there was a study done using aspirin to treat colic...

Infantile colic and aspirin. - PubMed - NCBI

... but I couldn't find the full study or even the abstract. I did find other studies talking about the aspirin study though. Here is what I found...

"The improvements in the infantile colic symptoms seen with acetylsalicyclic acid ingestion might therefore be attributed to the TNFα-based pathway. A new theory proposed in this paper is that TNFα in the mother’s milk might influence the metabolism of melatonin and serotonin in the infant, and that these are major components in the pathophysiology of infantile colic."

...and...

"Another factor [regarding colic] may be prostaglandins affecting smooth muscle contraction. Maternal ingestion of prostaglandin synthetase inhibitors (aspirin) reduced colic symptoms in breastfed infants [cites the aspirin study]"

If both of these things - aspirin and progesterone - didn't help I would try cyproheptadine. Cyproheptadine is frequently used in infants already for pruritus at doses around 2mg and in toddlers who to stimulate appetite, so it's considered safe. In an infant with colic it may help to both lower serotonin and increase the appetite. I couldn't find any studies on this, though I didn't look too hard. The mother could also try cyproheptadine.

Here are some more quotes I've found...

"As shown in our results, serotonin levels are high in colicky babies, which is reflected by increased urinary 5-OH IAA levels. Body serotonin, found mostly in the gastrointestinal tract, has many sites of action within the bowel, affecting epithelial secretion and muscular contraction as well as neuronal transmittance."

"Levels of 5-hydroxy-3-indole acetic acid (5-OH IAA), a metabolite of serotonin, were studied in infants with infantile colic in order to investigate the aetiology of infantile colic: urinary 5-OH IAA levels in infants with colic were found to be higher than those in the control group. Peak serotonin levels cause intestinal cramps associated with colic because serotonin increases intestinal smooth muscle contractions. Intestinal cramps caused by serotonin are unopposed by melatonin during the first 3 months of life because only serotonin circadian rhythms are present at birth and melatonin circadian rhythms do not appear until the age of 3 months, the time at which colicky cramps disappear."
Thank you thank you for all this info. We are busy studying it ...I had told them about the progesterone and now this other info is going to be good! Something has to help. It makes sense that it would be some of these other things because the mainstream info isn't addressing it with this so this is what we will look at. I really appreciate it!
 
OP
kaybb

kaybb

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Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
499
The advice in the book "Happiest Baby on the Block" by Harvey Karp worked for my two kids when they were very young. I (the dad) was actually able to get the kids to fall asleep and give my wife a bit of a break. It only worked for the first 3 months or so, though.
You're basically trying to imitate the sensation of being in the womb (i.e. the "4th trimester").
He has a DVD; there is probably stuff on YouTube as well.
Yes! We have this book and it is helpful . I will look for the DVD. That's what we need for the mom who is so burned out a DVD would be great. Also utube! Great suggestion !!
 

Peatful

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Dec 8, 2016
Messages
3,582
I heard Robert morse refer to colic alongside mucus. He said mothers milk is becoming acidic because of the mothers diet.
Have to agree with this anecdotally.

Absolutely believe this was my / my babies story.

For me: I was grossly underfed and malnourished. I looked great by Hollywood standards . But I was beyond deprived.
My baby was innately trying to let me know- but I was so lost....

I put this out there in hopes it helps someone in the future.
 

Beastmode

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Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
1,258
We have a six week old nursing baby who is crying a lot and acts like he is in pain. I have read similar threads on colic and we are trying some suggestions. I would like to know if anyone has some advice on how to treat colic/crying, miserable baby. I am the grandma and have been following Ray Peat methods and also have shared these with my family so the mom and dad are open to information
(Already addressed reflux).

- Remove irritating foods if baby isn't breastfeeding.
- If mommy is breastfeeding, remove irritating foods.
- If mommy is breastfeeding, she can take a 1/8-/1/4 tsp of progest-e before night time feedings.
- If not breastfeeding, a "pin drop" of progest-e might do the trick, especially at night, rubbed into the gums. (this is when progesterone falls the most.)
- Early morning sunlight on as much skin as possible (5-10) min depending on where you live everyday.

Night time stress is often the hardest on everyone, so think of what a pro-metabolic lifestyle requires and promote that in the baby's "day to day" life. My wife and I have been here before and it's really easy to forget the basics, as parents, when you're exhausted trying to take care of a baby 24/7.
 

AlisonG

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Feb 5, 2022
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55
Location
North Carolina
We have a six week old nursing baby who is crying a lot and acts like he is in pain. I have read similar threads on colic and we are trying some suggestions. I would like to know if anyone has some advice on how to treat colic/crying, miserable baby. I am the grandma and have been following Ray Peat methods and also have shared these with my family so the mom and dad are open to information
(Already addressed reflux).
What do you mean by "already addressed reflux"... Is he on a PPI?
 

Peatful

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