Cold Temperature Produces PUFA

[Hugh Johnson]

Seems unlikely. That would use up huge amounts of energy which could be used to manufacture more viruses.

If the data is present for HIV only it might be something intrinsic to it. I don’t know.. it’s up to science. I don’t know anything about HIV, except that HIVs only enemy is the immune system and that viral genes do have regulatory elements – so not all their genes are on at the same time; the latent phase is an example in whereas all proteins requierd for replication are ‘switched off’. Your suggestion of this being due to poor detoxification also makes huge sense, remembering Haidut's post about AIDS being endotoxemia.

Mead acid is more stable because of the double bonds being more close to the carboxyl group.

The disposal of PUFA at cold spots is interesting view; however, doesn’t answer why there’s more PUFA found, unless this is the case in every disease of hypometabolic origin. If true, I think instead of being directly related to enzymatic function it is more likely to be something related to/directed by the nervous system, here a quote from RP:

"Temperature regulation apparently involves some nerve cells that sense temperature very accurately, and change their activity accordingly. Water has a remarkably high heat capacity, meaning that it takes a relatively large amount of heat to change its temperature. The "disappearing heat" is being consumed by structural changes in the water. Proteins have the same sort of structural complexity as water, and together they can make effective temperature transducers, "thermometers." (Other substances tend to undergo major structural changes only as they melt or vaporize. The famous "liquid crystals" have a few distinct structural phases, but cytoplasm is like a very subtle liquid crystal.) The "thermostat cells" are actually responding to a degree of internal structure, not to the temperature in the abstract. So things that change their internal structure will modify their temperature "set-point.""
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ms.shtml

Difference in liver function alone can explain this. If we accept that people with AIDS have far more stress than healthy people, we can assume they are a worse liver function.

Liver disposes of PUFA:
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Pat ... 6e8dae.pdf

Even with the same diet, a few years with ***t liver will lead to a higher PUFA ratio.

Additionally, HIV and AIDS are not the same, and you should probably clarify which you are talking about and what your view of them is. There are arguments made that either HIV does not cause AIDS, or only causes it in conjuction with other stressors.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Then this should be obvious in CFS and other cases as well.

regarding HIV/AIDS:

HIV does not cause AIDS, or only causes it in conjuction with other stressors."

 

[Hugh Johnson]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96659/ Then this should be obvious in CFS and other cases as well.

regarding HIV/AIDS:

HIV does not cause AIDS, or only causes it in conjuction with other stressors."

>We found that CFS was accompanied by increased levels of omega6 PUFAs, i.e. linoleic acid and arachidonic acid (AA), and mono-unsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs), i.e. oleic acid.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16380690

Like this?

 

[Suikerbuik]

Yes sort of, but it could also point towards defects in beta-oxidation, because palmitic acid is also elevated; unless these values (incl. oleic acid) are just representing stress in terms of FFA.
"The severity of illness was significantly and positively correlated to linoleic and arachidonic acid, oleic acid, omega9 fatty acids and one of the saturated fatty acids, i.e. palmitic acid."

Here's one, also relevant to this discussion, most likely disproving of what I thought of as a possible mechanism involved: https://www.jsbi.org/pdfs/journal1/IBSB06/IBSB06F016.pdf (table 2)

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Hypothetically. Peat did mention that short chain fattty acids are metabolized almost like sugar, potentially explaining a few things about the fatty acid composition.

Still, why go there first? I just think it assuming that it is due to them eating more PUFA and/or their liver working badly is simpler.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Are you saying cold gives you AIDS? It does give you the flu, doesn't it... This thread is about the biophysical mechanism more in general. But it does happen at the very least in rats and a bunch of other creatures.

 

[Suikerbuik]

I just don't assume they eat more PUFA, which has been the question all along. Sure, nutrients are absolutely important, but it's mitochondrial dysfunction that underlies poor glucuronidation and poor liver function, and I consider beta-oxidation (incl fatty acid transport and reduction of double bonds) an essential part of the mitochondrial function; however, it's not one or the other, which I also didn't mean to imply, just that in case it's 'only' a defect in glucuronidation you'd expect elevated PUFAs and not oleic acid or palmitic acid. In the end it's basically all synonymous to poor liver function.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Are you saying cold gives you AIDS?

Of course, lol.

 

[m_arch]

Very interesting Topic

 

[Barry Obummer]

So eating PUFA makes you cold and being cold makes more PUFA? That is a most slippery of slopes. I am just glad summer is coming so I can have more mental energy to sort these things out and optimally adjust diet.

Does this mean perhaps that dietary saturated fat should be kept low too? And does having a Low body fat percentage decrease the negative effects of PUFA because there is less room for it to be stored? Low body fat percentage would probably make you colder due to less insulation. This is a difficult issue.

 

[Ledo]

Its a useful adaptation in cold water fish and plants (canola oil anyone), so why wouldn't it be anti-freeze for some frozen fingers? Beats total frostbite.

I think Tara may have been hinting at this?

 

[Barry Obummer]

Its a useful adaptation in cold water fish and plants (canola oil anyone), so why wouldn't it be anti-freeze for some frozen fingers? Beats total frostbite.

I think Tara may have been hinting at this?

I am always surprised that my fingers can be relatively strong and dexterous yet feel almost colder than room temperature. It just doesn't feel correct or sensical.

 

[DaveFoster]

So eating PUFA makes you cold and being cold makes more PUFA? That is a most slippery of slopes. I am just glad summer is coming so I can have more mental energy to sort these things out and optimally adjust diet.

Does this mean perhaps that dietary saturated fat should be kept low too? And does having a Low body fat percentage decrease the negative effects of PUFA because there is less room for it to be stored? Low body fat percentage would probably make you colder due to less insulation. This is a difficult issue.

PUFA doesn't make you cold in the short-term. It stimulates thermogenesis, especially n-6 via corn oil. It's similar to how adrenaline raises surface temperature, but PUFA "damages mitochondria" according to Peat, which leads to dissipated heat.

 

[tara]

In one of his interviews Ray joked about putting a sweater on some animal (pig?) and by doing that you can avoid it.

You thought he was joking? I thought this was a genuine experiment that did show a difference?

Its a useful adaptation in cold water fish and plants (canola oil anyone), so why wouldn't it be anti-freeze for some frozen fingers? Beats total frostbite.

I think Tara may have been hinting at this?

Was I being so subtle? :)

PUFA doesn't make you cold in the short-term. It stimulates thermogenesis, especially n-6 via corn oil. It's similar to how adrenaline raises surface temperature, but PUFA "damages mitochondria" according to Peat, which leads to dissipated heat.

I though PUFA synergised with estrogen, and estrogen tends to lower the thermostat and so lower core body temps, so PUFA would tend to lower core temps?

 

[Barry Obummer]

PUFA doesn't make you cold in the short-term. It stimulates thermogenesis, especially n-6 via corn oil. It's similar to how adrenaline raises surface temperature, but PUFA "damages mitochondria" according to Peat, which leads to dissipated heat.

You thought he was joking? I thought this was a genuine experiment that did show a difference?


Was I being so subtle? :)


I though PUFA synergised with estrogen, and estrogen tends to lower the thermostat and so lower core body temps, so PUFA would tend to lower core temps?

When I first read Dave Foster's post it made sense to me because that would explain the studies saying PUFA is preferable to SFA for weight loss. I haven't looked at the studies recently but I am assuming they were short term studies.

 

[DaveFoster]

You thought he was joking? I thought this was a genuine experiment that did show a difference?


Was I being so subtle? :)


I though PUFA synergised with estrogen, and estrogen tends to lower the thermostat and so lower core body temps, so PUFA would tend to lower core temps?

When I first read Dave Foster's post it made sense to me because that would explain the studies saying PUFA is preferable to SFA for weight loss. I haven't looked at the studies recently but I am assuming they were short term studies.

Sign In

"Energy balance. In the lean mice, ME intake was higher in those fed the high fat diets than in those fed the low fat diet, and both body weight and carcass energy gain were significantly elevated on the high fat diets (Tables 1 and 2). However, carcass energy gain was higher in the lean mice fed the beef tallow diet than in lean animals fed the corn oil diet, despite the fact that the ME intake tended to be slightly lower in the former group than in the latter."

"Thermogenesis in brown adipose tissue. The amount of brown adipose tissue (interscapular + subscapular) in the lean mice fed the corn oil diet was not different from that of mice fed the low fat diet, whereas mice fed the beef tallow diet had significantly more of the tissue (Table 4). This increase in tissue weight presumably reflects differences in lipid content since the total protein content was unaffected by dietary manipulation. In the obese mice, the amount of brown adipose tissue was significantly less in mice fed the high fat diets than in those fed the low fat diet, and this was more pronounced in mice fed the corn oil diet than in those fed beef tallow. Again, these changes are likely to reflect alterations in the fat content of the tissue since the total brown fat protein of mice fed the high fat diets was not lower than that of mice fed the low fat diet. Indeed, it was substantially higher in the obi ob mice fed the corn oil diet, suggesting functional growth of the tissue in this group. The amount of brown adipose tissue (interscapular + subscapular) in the lean mice fed the corn oil diet was not different from that of mice fed the low fat diet, whereas mice fed the beef tallow diet had significantly more of the tissue (Table 4). This increase in tissue weight presum ably reflects differences in lipid content since the total protein content was unaffected by dietary manipula tion. In the obese mice, the amount of brown adipose tissue was significantly less in mice fed the high fat diets than in those fed the low fat diet, and this was more pronounced in mice fed the corn oil diet than in those fed beef tallow. Again, these changes are likely to reflect alterations in the fat content of the tissue since the total brown fat protein of mice fed the high fat diets was not lower than that of mice fed the low fat diet. Indeed, it was substantially higher in the obi ob mice fed the corn oil diet, suggesting functional growth of the tissue in this group."

Sign In

(This one is with a ketogenic diet.)

"When the daily fat intake reached levels of 300 to 400 g, all subjects reported a strong and persistent sensation of heat. It was striking to observe that the weight gain did not correlate with the caloric intake. Particularly if fat was given in the form of corn oil, a distinct discrepancy between the caloric intake and the response of the body weight was detectable (Figs. 1 and 3). T"

"Summary In normal subjects, the fat content of a formula diet in the form of corn oil and olive oil (but with constant carbohydrate and protein intake) was raised continuously up to a daily ingestion of more than 6,800 fat calones. Under normal utilization of fat in the gastrointestinal tract, it was seen that there was only a slight weight gain, compared with the caloric intake. This effect was particularly conspicuous with corn oil and less so with olive oil. The two oils differ by their linoleic acid content. Based on these results, we treated obese subjects with high fat, low carbohydrate diets. If the carbohydrate content of the diet was not more than 50 to 60 g/day and the fat content approximately 150 g/day, an average daily weight reduction of 0.3 kg was achieved. The cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations in the serum, which had been raised at the beginning of the experiment, invariably showed a tendency towards normalization under this dietary program."

They did not measure the core body temperature, as they were tracking only body weight. It could just be surface temperature, but I would say that core temperature rose with reference to Peat's quote that PUFA "damages mitochondria," which causes energy to be lost as heat.

 

[Barry Obummer]

Sign In

"Energy balance. In the lean mice, ME intake was higher in those fed the high fat diets than in those fed the low fat diet, and both body weight and carcass energy gain were significantly elevated on the high fat diets (Tables 1 and 2). However, carcass energy gain was higher in the lean mice fed the beef tallow diet than in lean animals fed the corn oil diet, despite the fact that the ME intake tended to be slightly lower in the former group than in the latter."

"Thermogenesis in brown adipose tissue. The amount of brown adipose tissue (interscapular + subscapular) in the lean mice fed the corn oil diet was not different from that of mice fed the low fat diet, whereas mice fed the beef tallow diet had significantly more of the tissue (Table 4). This increase in tissue weight presumably reflects differences in lipid content since the total protein content was unaffected by dietary manipulation. In the obese mice, the amount of brown adipose tissue was significantly less in mice fed the high fat diets than in those fed the low fat diet, and this was more pronounced in mice fed the corn oil diet than in those fed beef tallow. Again, these changes are likely to reflect alterations in the fat content of the tissue since the total brown fat protein of mice fed the high fat diets was not lower than that of mice fed the low fat diet. Indeed, it was substantially higher in the obi ob mice fed the corn oil diet, suggesting functional growth of the tissue in this group. The amount of brown adipose tissue (interscapular + subscapular) in the lean mice fed the corn oil diet was not different from that of mice fed the low fat diet, whereas mice fed the beef tallow diet had significantly more of the tissue (Table 4). This increase in tissue weight presum ably reflects differences in lipid content since the total protein content was unaffected by dietary manipula tion. In the obese mice, the amount of brown adipose tissue was significantly less in mice fed the high fat diets than in those fed the low fat diet, and this was more pronounced in mice fed the corn oil diet than in those fed beef tallow. Again, these changes are likely to reflect alterations in the fat content of the tissue since the total brown fat protein of mice fed the high fat diets was not lower than that of mice fed the low fat diet. Indeed, it was substantially higher in the obi ob mice fed the corn oil diet, suggesting functional growth of the tissue in this group."

Sign In

(This one is with a ketogenic diet.)

"When the daily fat intake reached levels of 300 to 400 g, all subjects reported a strong and persistent sensation of heat. It was striking to observe that the weight gain did not correlate with the caloric intake. Particularly if fat was given in the form of corn oil, a distinct discrepancy between the caloric intake and the response of the body weight was detectable (Figs. 1 and 3). T"

"Summary In normal subjects, the fat content of a formula diet in the form of corn oil and olive oil (but with constant carbohydrate and protein intake) was raised continuously up to a daily ingestion of more than 6,800 fat calones. Under normal utilization of fat in the gastrointestinal tract, it was seen that there was only a slight weight gain, compared with the caloric intake. This effect was particularly conspicuous with corn oil and less so with olive oil. The two oils differ by their linoleic acid content. Based on these results, we treated obese subjects with high fat, low carbohydrate diets. If the carbohydrate content of the diet was not more than 50 to 60 g/day and the fat content approximately 150 g/day, an average daily weight reduction of 0.3 kg was achieved. The cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations in the serum, which had been raised at the beginning of the experiment, invariably showed a tendency towards normalization under this dietary program."

They did not measure the core body temperature, as they were tracking only body weight. It could just be surface temperature, but I would say that core temperature rose with reference to Peat's quote that PUFA "damages mitochondria," which causes energy to be lost as heat.

Ok, thanks. I am still trying to wrap my head around this stuff so that was helpful.

 

[Barry Obummer]

Thank god I live in Bakersfield !!!

I'm surprised I survived the winter up here. I bought a bad batch of firewood and it really screwed me up. It's like a Paradiso here today though.

 

[m_arch]

You thought he was joking? I thought this was a genuine experiment that did show a difference?

Wait so a quick take away here - wearing warmer clothes over your core is likely to be beneficial to your health?

I guess it would get the blood flowing to your extremities more.

 

[tara]

Wait so a quick take away here - wearing warmer clothes over your core is likely to be beneficial to your health?

In a cold climate, esp. if metabolism is lowish, I think. And keeping extremities warm.