Coffee, Morning Only Or All Day Long?

[Collden]

Looking for opinions from people who've experimented with both consumption patterns for coffee - either concentrating it in the early part of the day, or spacing it out evenly throughout the day until bedtime. What is best in your opinion? Did you find that the sleep-disrupting effects of evening coffee eventually disappear after habituation, or was it always there?

Basically, is there some advantage to drinking coffee in a way that you maintain a low but constant level of caffeine throughout the waking hours, rather than a huge peak of caffeine in the morning with a gradual decline throughout the day?

 

[jb116]

My progesterone levels naturally rise with coffee consumption. I save my coffee for the later half of the day. Usually a cup with Hagen Daz vanilla bean before bed.

 

[Collden]

My progesterone levels naturally rise with coffee consumption. I save my coffee for the later half of the day. Usually a cup with Hagen Daz vanilla bean before bed.

Thats interesting that you basically reverse the usual pattern of coffee consumption. Have you always done it like this, had any sleep issues in the beginning?

 

[jb116]

Thats interesting that you basically reverse the usual pattern of coffee consumption. Have you always done it like this, had any sleep issues in the beginning?

I actually didn't drink coffee until after I discovered Peat. In 2015 I was inspired to go for nutritional certification and I also started up then. My long-time gf showed me the ropes as she has always been and still is an avid coffee drinker. I noticed for myself drinking it in the earlier half of the day would perhaps get in the way of sleep later at night. So I tested drinking it in the later half, and it works great. Caffeine and sugar generally makes me relaxed and especially at night, sleepy.

 

[Arnold Grape]

This is all relative - before Peat-eating I would consume two-five cups of coffee, generally in the morning and in the afternoon. For whatever reason, now I generally just drink coffee in the morning, after breakfast. It is also summertime where I live, so I might drink a Tropical Red Bull with lunch on occasion in lieu of coffee. However, I do notice that if I drink coffee late in the afternoon now, or after dinner, it does have a negative impact on sleep. I'm not sure what to deduce from this, but it seems like another one of those aspects where you have to listen to your instincts. If there is a large meal, specifically with a lot of protein, I will err in the direction of coffee consumption after said meal. Almost never do I have any other symptoms from coffee.

 

[Luckytype]

When i was younger and much more metabolically healthy in college i would drink coffee and it would relax me and make me sleep.

As i got into more high stress never ending stuff coffee would essentially have no perceivable effects.

Coffee now while im not quite metabolically healthy again yet is beginning to have slightly warming, mildly relaxing effects.

Redbull is fantastic the past couple months, usually within an hourish of consumption, most times, I can generally count on good quality temps and feeling better. Once it a while it will send me up to 99 degrees. This is before my first thyroid nibble and sometimes after it. I look forward to the boost it finally gives.

In the past RB, Monster etc had little to no actual effect. Granted i was physically and mentally exhausted so until I noticed "holy ***t im relaxed but hot as hell" I was still convinced it was doing nothing for me.

Once I get the pattern down better I may do coffee with pepsi and some taurine because I have a feeling thats part of it.

 

[Waynish]

Why not go by feeling. You're not going to force feed coffee, are you?! And are you willing to abstain from coffee when you crave it? So ya, as long as you're not having any side effects, then I'd make sure you're getting enough solid food calories - and then have coffee when you'd like. :)

 

[Jon]

@Collden i like it all day in the form of lattes and cappuccino.

Espresso doesn't hit me like drip coffee. I'm guessing it's the difference in water content. Espresso also is higher in magnesium, niacin, and probably terpenes so I don't know if that has more to do with not as much stress reaction via equal parts caffeine.

I noticed that when I started drinking it all day, coffee starts to make me sleepy instead of hopped up. Some seem to attribute this effect to a well functioning liver.

 

[Herbie]

I’ve found if I stop drinking coffee at 3pm it’s ok and have hot chololate and Coca Cola close to bed because the lower levels of caffeine aren’t enough to disrupt sleep.

 

[ImprovingDaily]

I’ve found if I stop drinking coffee at 3pm it’s ok and have hot chololate and Coca Cola close to bed because the lower levels of caffeine aren’t enough to disrupt sleep.

What time do you usually go to sleep? I've found at least 5, but closer to 6 hours of having coffee before bed is ok enough to not affect sleep too much.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I can drink coffee until bedtime and it doesn't interfere with my sleep at all. Not sure if that means anything but it's true.

 

[Collden]

What I wonder is if you can eventually eliminate the sleep-disturbing effects of caffeine late in the day by habituating yourself to late intake. There was a study where they found that people who habitually drink coffee late at night do not have worse sleep quality than people who dont drink coffee at night (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jsr.12670), but it wasn't clear from the study if thats due to habituation or due more hard-wired biological differences, since people who dont get disturbed by evening caffeine are more likely to consume it in the evening.

Back when I didn't drink coffee at all a single cup later than 10am was enough to make me sleepless for hours after usual bedtime, but now that I've had 2-3 cups per day for the past months I usually dont have disturbed sleep unless I drink after 3pm, I dont see why you shouldn't be able to adapt to be fine with even later in, but has anyone actually tried? Like just start having a cup at bedtime every day for 1-2 weeks and see if you eventually go back to normal sleep?

 

[Vinero]

If you drink coffee only once a day you can actually get a buzz out of it, and become incredibly productive during a few hours.
I used to drink coffee just before hitting my books to study, have about 2-3 of productive hours. I got so much work done. Then don't drink any the rest of the day.
If you drink it all day long then you lose the high you get from caffeine in my experience.

 

[Jon]

Haidut had a pretty good thread on caffeine with lots of studies and the comments section has good discussions in it.

Studies like this:
Coffee and liver health. - PubMed - NCBI

Lead me to believe that as your liver becomes healthier, glycogen storage function returns, and so compounds like coffee that illicit a cortisol response most likely don't have a very tangible negative effect anymore because your liver is preventing the stress (lack of energy) by releasing glycogen to aid the increase in basal metabolism.

 

[mayweatherking]

caffeine half life is 5 hours, so if you drink it 5 hrs before you go to sleep, you will be fine. last cup around 4 or 5, you will be good

 

[ImprovingDaily]

caffeine half life is 5 hours, so if you drink it 5 hrs before you go to sleep, you will be fine. last cup around 4 or 5, you will be good

Anecdotally, I find this to be true. 6 to be safe. Some people metabolize it slower so I'd just do it by feel at that point.

 

[tca300]

Me: If someone was eating 6 meals per day, and drinking 4-6 cups of coffee per day, for best effects on hormones would drinking 1 cup at a time with each meal be best? Or would it be better to drink 2-3 cups at a time with a meal twice per day? Thank you!

Ray Peat: I think spreading it out as much as possible is best, to avoid ups and downs.



My Opinion - That being said, be careful about not drinking it too late. And if you are slow at processing caffeine, having many small amounts vs 1 or two larger amounts could cause the caffeine to slowly accumulate over the day, leading to a high concentration.

 

[dreamcatcher]

All day..yay!

 

[Herbie]

What time do you usually go to sleep? I've found at least 5, but closer to 6 hours of having coffee before bed is ok enough to not affect sleep too much.

8-10pm

Look up the half life of caffiene I think that has something to do with it but depends how the person takes the coffee

 

[Aymen]

If you drink coffee only once a day you can actually get a buzz out of it, and become incredibly productive during a few hours.
I used to drink coffee just before hitting my books to study, have about 2-3 of productive hours. I got so much work done. Then don't drink any the rest of the day.
If you drink it all day long then you lose the high you get from caffeine in my experience.

do you think cycling coffee/caffeine is more effective ? like 3-6 months we drink it everyday then we take 1 week off and then we come back to it .