Coffee causes joint stiffness or collagen lapse(?)

[Twohandsondeck]

As many members of the forum here are probably aware, there are anti-coffee people in the world for a number of their various reasons, off the top of my head I remember these arguments:

Coffee will...
-dry your skin out
-tax your nervous system
-spend ATP uselessly
-increase H. Pylori
-dilute stomach acid
-cause kidney problems
-dehydrate you
-cause dependency
-lead to mood swings via crashing
-cause an overproduction of adenosine receptors
-lead to chronic fatigue
-give a false sensation of reward
-hurt your sleep quality
-tax your wallet (spending @ coffee shops)

...but none of these claims have ran consistently true for me. If I was symptomatic of one of them, it was easily remedied by getting in some protein and sleep.

However, there is one claim which I've heard by Paul Chek and Jason Gallant (of "Natural Gallant Bodybuilding) which is that coffee will cause joint stiffness that may thereby increase the chance of injury during exercise.

Recently (about 2.5 months ago) I tweaked my lower back deadlifting. Very annoying recovery process, to say the least. Varying degrees of pain pretty much all the time for weeks.

To get the point across, everytime I would drink coffee during this healing process, my back would stiffen up by 20-30% for a couple hours after. It was extremely apparent, almost like I was sucking the fluid out of the area with the coffee.

At this point I'm 80-90% healed and I can squat or deadlift again and coffee doesn't do this anymore... but it certainly was a problem during the painful weeks.

//end post

 

[InChristAlone]

Anecdotally my husband drinks pretty strong coffee and has a lot of joint stiffness. My step Dad drinks a lot of coffee and has two bad shoulders and the typical stick legs with thicker middle and doesn't make the best decisions in his life. I recently quit caffeine so I may be pretty negative about it at the moment. It exacerbates panic attacks for me.

 

[OccamzRazer]

However, there is one claim which I've heard by Paul Chek and Jason Gallant (of "Natural Gallant Bodybuilding) which is that coffee will cause joint stiffness that may thereby increase the chance of injury during exercise.

Interesting...even if coffee did cause joint stiffness, that could be remedied with extra collagen/gelatin/antioxidants, right?

For me the pros of coffee far outweigh the cons. It makes any type of movement more enjoyable!

Recently (about 2.5 months ago) I tweaked my lower back deadlifting. Very annoying recovery process, to say the least. Varying degrees of pain pretty much all the time for weeks.

To get the point across, everytime I would drink coffee during this healing process, my back would stiffen up by 20-30% for a couple hours after. It was extremely apparent, almost like I was sucking the fluid out of the area with the coffee.

Could this particular case of coffee-induced stiffness have been protective, if it disincentivized you from taxing movements?

 

[Sergey]

I have seen studies showing that coffee significantly increases intestinal permeability to sucrose. It returned back to normal within days after people stop coffee.
Maybe this joints issues are related to the increased flow of some pro-inflammatory stuff from the gut.

 

[Ben.]

Interesting, my mom has alot of issues with her joints and spine. Her drinking 3 coffees before leaving the house in the morning and atleast the same amount the rest of the day might have something to do with it ... and all the cigarettes perhaps and cooking with vegetable oils ...

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Anecdotally my husband drinks pretty strong coffee and has a lot of joint stiffness. My step Dad drinks a lot of coffee and has two bad shoulders and the typical stick legs with thicker middle and doesn't make the best decisions in his life. I recently quit caffeine so I may be pretty negative about it at the moment. It exacerbates panic attacks for me.

Hard to say. I feel you on the anxiety effect.

Interesting...even if coffee did cause joint stiffness, that could be remedied with extra collagen/gelatin/antioxidants, right?

I was thinking about that too while I was writing the post. On the most recent interview between Georgi, Danny, and Peat, I recall @haidut mentioning something like '70% collagen and 30% muscle meat would be an ideal dietary amino acid profile'

For me the pros of coffee far outweigh the cons. It makes any type of movement more enjoyable!

I agree. It takes away delayed onset muscle soreness pretty readily.

Could this particular case of coffee-induced stiffness have been protective, if it disincentivized you from taxing movements?

That's a clever point, but considering how I would be sitting in a car feeling relatively ok just to jump to immediate squirming pain after a few sips of coffee, I can't say it was a useful thing.

Maybe this joints issues are related to the increased flow of some pro-inflammatory stuff from the gut.

This was a counterpoint that I thought to write originally but it slipped my mind. Thank you for bringing it up. Yeah... could just be a generalized inflammatory response.

Interesting, my mom has alot of issues with her joints and spine. Her drinking 3 coffees before leaving the house in the morning and atleast the same amount the rest of the day might have something to do with it ... and all the cigarettes perhaps and cooking with vegetable oils ...

Ah yeah... well, she might get along just fine if it weren't for those last two. *sigh*

 

[Apple]

Same here. I found connection between my coffee consumption and neck/spine pain.
I stopped coffee and in a month I felt considerably better. Also my allergy(runny nose) disappered. And cholestrol dropped from 210 to 180 which makes me feel safer healthwise.
But coffee is so addictive and helps with digestion...impossible to quit completely

 

[OccamzRazer]

That's a clever point, but considering how I would be sitting in a car feeling relatively ok just to jump to immediate squirming pain after a few sips of coffee, I can't say it was a useful thing.

Ah, did not realize the stiffness was so immediate. Was this high-quality coffee? I wonder if sensitivities to mycotoxins can kick in so quickly.

 

[ilhanxx]

Coffee use a lot of energy and nutrient. Listen to your body, choose the best amount and time. Coffee is adaptojenic and double edge sword.

 

[InChristAlone]

My issue with caffeine is I'm sensitive to increasing and decreasing the amount so if one day I don't get enough sleep and am stressed I can't just not drink it that day, then I suffer the jitters and anxiety when I really didn't want to. That's always been my issue. I could go weeks without suffering much anxiety from it but say I drank more than normal and I'm also stressed I could send myself back into a spiral of anxiety. I have a love/hate relationship with it! Not worth it!

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Ah, did not realize the stiffness was so immediate. Was this high-quality coffee? I wonder if sensitivities to mycotoxins can kick in so quickly.

It's an organic brew made that morning. There's a possibility that it's pre-ground, but I'm positive that the quality is at least 7.5/10. It's a world of difference compared to the cheap commercial coffee we find in every nook & cranny in America.

 

[MrGilbert]

I'm going to do a no coffee experiment starting tomorrow to see if it effects my spine pain/stiffness.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I'm going to do a no coffee experiment starting tomorrow to see if it effects my spine pain/stiffness.

Right on!

 

[Apple]

I'm going to do a no coffee experiment starting tomorrow to see if it effects my spine pain/stiffness.

Cool! Let us know in a month how it is going on

 

[InChristAlone]

I'm going to do a no coffee experiment starting tomorrow to see if it effects my spine pain/stiffness.

Good! I'm on day 6 and finally starting to feel more like myself.

 

[peter88]

Good! I'm on day 6 and finally starting to feel more like myself.

Are you still not drinking coffee?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I'm going to do a no coffee experiment starting tomorrow to see if it effects my spine pain/stiffness.

Any updates?

 

[MrGilbert]

Any updates?

Yeah it actually worked. My spine stiffness problem just dissapeared. Guess I need to get back on the coffee again at some point to confirm it wasn't a coincidence but my skin is also looking better and I feel more relaxed so... A+ would recommend a 'no-coffee experiment'.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Yeah it actually worked. My spine stiffness problem just dissapeared. Guess I need to get back on the coffee again at some point to confirm it wasn't a coincidence but my skin is also looking better and I feel more relaxed so... A+ would recommend a 'no-coffee experiment'.

Cool. Thanks.

Are you still consuming caffeine in any way other than coffee, like coke, tea, chocolate etc.?

 

[MrGilbert]

Are you still consuming caffeine in any way other than coffee, like coke, tea, chocolate etc.?

I had a couple of red bulls during the first week to help me transition (this didn't seem to slow down progress) but I'm currently caffeine free.