Coca-Cola Mexican Coke

[nwo2012]

I've heard him say it is similar to the caramel in coffee and has antioxidant effects.

Yes thats pretty much what he said when I emailed him a while back on the subject when discussing cola.
But thanks for posting that study.
Im not a big fan of cola because I dont like the feeling on my teeth (the phosphoric acid) but if Im ever stuck I will grab some. Easy on Oz as its same as Mexican coke and plenty of shops sell in glass bottles.

 

[peatarian]

Cheers to both of you!

 

[pete]

The other side of the coin is that Murray & Associates is a consulting firm representing companies that oppose California regulations.


Does 4-methylimidazole have tumor preventive activity in the rat?
Does 4-methylimidazole have tumor preventive activity in the rat?
F. Jay Murray,
Murray and Associates, 5529 Perugia Circle, San Jose, CA 95138, United States


F.Jay Murray, Murray and Associates, CA
F.Jay Murray, Murray and Associates, CA | Toxicology Forum

Dr. F. Jay Murray is a toxicologist who heads the consulting firm of Murray & Associates in San Jose, California. He is a former member of the California Governor’s Scientific Advisory Panel for the Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986 (Proposition 65). Dr. Murray is a graduate of the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine (Ph.D. in toxicology), Stanford University Graduate School of Business, and Seton Hall University. He is board-certified by the American Board of Toxicology and a member of the Society of Toxicology. For 25 years, Dr. Murray was an Assistant Clinical Professor at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine. Dr. Murray was formerly employed by The Dow Chemical Company, Syntex Corporation (currently Roche Biosciences) and ENSR Corporation. He is the author of over 150 scientific publications and presentations.


RE: Opportunity for Public Participation ... Proposition 65
http://www.oehha.org/prop65/public_meetings/pdf/macomments010809.pdf

I am writing on behalf of the several clients in response to the Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment’s (“OEHHA” or the “Agency”) November 3, 2008 request for public input ... on the “Proposition 65 Regulatory Update Project, Regulatory Concepts for Exposures to Human and Plant Nutrients in Human Food” (the Regulatory Concept)... Consequently, food companies will have to decide whether to prepare to bear the costly expense of a defense afforded by this concept (and run the risk that the courts will throw it out) or to place a misleading Proposition 65 warning on their products. In many cases, they will opt for the safer, less costly option, i.e., a misleading warning.

OEHHA Proposition 65
OEHHA Proposition 65: Proposition 65 in Plain Language!

Proposition 65 requires the State to publish a list of chemicals known to cause cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm... Proposition 65 requires businesses to notify Californians about significant amounts of chemicals in the products they purchase, in their homes or workplaces, or that are released into the environment. By providing this information, Proposition 65 enables Californians to make informed decisions about protecting themselves from exposure to these chemicals.

---

The devil is in the details ...


CSPI - Citizen Petition
http://cspinet.org/new/pdf/caramel_coloring_petition.pdf

... to request the Commissioner of Food and Drugs to revoke sections 21 CFR 73.85 and 21 CFR 182.1235 (generally recognized as safe or “GRAS” regulation), which authorize the use in foods of caramel colorings that are produced by means of an ammonia or ammonia-sulfite process and contain 2-methylimidazole and 4-methylimidazole ...

... the FDA immediately should change the name “caramel coloring” to “chemically modified caramel coloring” or “ammonia-sulfite process caramel coloring” (and similar terms for other classes of the colorings) and should not allow products to be labeled “natural” ...

Caramel colorings are manufactured in several ways. Caramel Color I (may be used in high-proof alcoholic beverages) and Caramel Color II (may be used in cognac, sherry, and vegetable extract) are produced with alkali or acid caustic chemicals and sometimes sulfites (Caramel II), but not with ammonium compounds. Caramel Color III (synonyms: ammonia caramel, ammonia process caramel, closed-pan ammonia process caramel, open-pan ammonia process caramel, bakers’ caramel, confectioners’ caramel, and beer caramel) is prepared by the controlled heat treatment of carbohydrates with ammonium compounds. Caramel Color III is often used in baking, beer, soy sauce, gravy, and other products. Caramel Color IV (synonyms: ammonia sulfite process caramel, sulfite ammonia caramel, sulfite ammonia process caramel, acid-proof caramel, beverage caramel, and soft-drink caramel) is prepared by the controlled heat treatment of carbohydrates with ammonium-containing and sulfite-containing compounds. Soft drinks colored with caramel coloring generally are made with Caramel Color IV, which is generally used in colas and certain other soft drinks, and it also may be used in blended whiskey and general food applications. A key difference between Caramel III and Caramel IV is that Caramel III carries a positive ionic charge, while Caramel IV carries a negative charge. That difference renders them appropriate for use in different categories of foods.


Sethness Products Company - FAQ
Caramel Color, Sethness

There is still no legal definition of "natural", which makes this a difficult topic to address... Unlike FD&C dyes, Caramel Color does not require certification. Caramel Color is in the same category as other "natural colorants" such as annatto, beta carotene, beet juice, etc. Therefore, technically speaking, Caramel Color is considered "natural".

Internationally the FAO/WHO Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) has divided Caramel Color into four classes depending on if the food grade reactants are used in its manufacturing... Class IV, Sulfite Ammonia Caramel Colors, or E150d. The carbohydrate is heated in the presence of both sulfite and ammonium compounds. The resulting Caramel Color carries a negative ionic charge. These are the most widely produced Caramel Colors.

"Free" sulfite also means that the sulfite does not react with the food, but remains as the free sulfite and it is available to react with oxygen from the air. In Caramel Color the sulfite is a reactant. It actually combines with the various molecules and become an integral part of the polymer that makes up the color bodies in Carmel Color. When we have analyzed Class II or IV Caramel Colors in the past for free sulfite, we found the level is almost undetectable. However, the FDA requires that Caramel Colors be analyzed using the Monier Williams test. This test requires boiling the Caramel Color in a strong acid for 110 minutes. The strong acidic condition and high temperature breaks down the polymer and releases the sulfite.

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Toxicology and Carcinogenesis Studies of 4-Methylimidazole (CAS No. 822-36-6) in F344/N Rats and B6C3F1 Mice (Feed Studies)
National Toxicology Program
Abstract for TR-535 - 4-Methylimidazole (CASRN 822-36-6) - NTP

4-Methylimidazole is used in the manufacture of pharmaceuticals, photographic chemicals, dyes and pigments, cleaning and agricultural chemicals, and rubber. It has been identified as a by-product of fermentation in foods and has been detected in mainstream and sidestream tobacco smoke. 4-Methylimidazole was nominated by the National Cancer Institute for a long-term study because of the high potential for human exposure. Male and female F344/N rats and B6C3F1 mice were exposed to 4-methylimidazole (99.5% pure) in feed for 2 years. Fifteen-day and 14-week toxicity studies of 4-methylimidazole in F344/N rats and B6C3F1 mice are reported in NTP Toxicity Report No. 67. Genetic toxicology studies were conducted in Salmonella typhimurium, rat and mouse bone marrow cells, and mouse peripheral blood.

2-YEAR STUDY IN RATS

Groups of 50 male and 50 female rats were fed diets containing 0, 625, 1,250, or 2,500 ppm 4-methylimidazole (males) or 0, 1,250, 2,500, or 5,000 ppm 4-methylimidazole (females) (equivalent to average daily doses of approximately 30, 55, or 115 mg 4-methylimidazole/kg body weight to males and 60, 120, or 260 mg/kg to females) for 106 weeks. Survival of all exposed groups of male and female rats was similar to that of the control groups. Mean body weights of males in the 1,250 and 2,500 ppm groups and females in the 2,500 and 5,000 ppm groups were less than those of the control groups throughout the study; mean body weights of 1,250 ppm females were less after week 41. Feed consumption by 5,000 ppm females was less than that by the controls. Clonic seizures, excitability, hyperactivity, and impaired gait were observed primarily in 2,500 and 5,000 ppm females.

The incidence of mononuclear cell leukemia in 5,000 ppm females was significantly greater than that in the controls, and the incidence exceeded the historical range in feed study controls. The incidences of hepatic histiocytosis, chronic inflammation, and focal fatty change were generally significantly increased in all exposed groups of male and female rats. The incidences of hepatocellular eosinophilic and mixed cell focus were significantly increased in 2,500 ppm males and 5,000 ppm females.

2-YEAR STUDY IN MICE

Groups of 50 male and 50 female mice were fed diets containing 0, 312, 625, or 1,250 ppm 4-methylimidazole (equivalent to average daily doses of approximately 40, 80, and 170 mg 4-methylimidazole/kg body weight to males and females) for 106 weeks. Survival of all exposed groups of male and female mice was similar to that of the control groups. Mean body weights of males and females in the 1,250 ppm groups were less than those of the control groups after weeks 17 and 12, respectively. Mean body weights of 312 and 625 ppm females were less after weeks 85 and 65, respectively. Feed consumption by exposed groups of male and female mice was generally similar to that by the controls.

The incidences of alveolar/bronchiolar adenoma in all exposed groups of females, alveolar/bronchiolar carcinoma in 1,250 ppm males, and alveolar/bronchiolar adenoma or carcinoma (combined) in 1,250 ppm males and 625 and 1,250 ppm females were significantly greater than those in the control groups. The incidence of alveolar epithelium hyperplasia was significantly increased in 1,250 ppm females.

GENETIC TOXICOLOGY

4-Methylimidazole was not mutagenic in the S. typhimurium mutation assay when tested in strains TA97, TA98, TA100, and TA1535, with and without hamster or rat liver metabolic activation enzymes. No consistent or significant increases in the frequencies of micronucleated erythrocytes were seen in the bone marrow of male rats or mice treated with 4-methylimidazole by intraperitoneal injection, or in peripheral blood samples from male and female mice administered the compound in dosed feed for 14 weeks.

CONCLUSIONS

Under the conditions of these 2-year studies, there was no evidence of carcinogenic activity of 4-methylimidazole in male F344/N rats exposed to 625, 1,250, or 2,500 ppm. There was equivocal evidence of carcinogenic activity of 4-methylimidazole in female F344/N rats based on increased incidences of mononuclear cell leukemia. There was clear evidence of carcinogenic activity of 4-methylimidazole in male and female B6C3F1 mice based on increased incidences of alveolar/bronchiolar neoplasms.

Exposure to 4-methylimidazole resulted in nonneoplastic lesions in the liver of male and female rats and the lung of female mice and in clinical findings of neurotoxicity in female rats.

 

[Ray-Z]

I have to say I don't have a lot of confidence in the 'State of California'. They also label every product with natural progesterone in it as 'carcinogenic'. Ray Peat once described the board meeting when they decided progesterone was going to be a 'known carcinogen' from now on - it was ridiculous

Yes, the story of CA's progesterone decision was quite revealing.

When I order from iHerb, I invariably get a message informing me that every last bloody item I've ordered is known to the state of California to be a carcinogen. If you spend any time in CA, you quickly realize that the state government is not competent to fix a pothole, much less play doctor to the entire population.

I'm sipping a Mexi-coke right now. Cheers to you all! [Raises bottle.]

 

[peatarian]

Couldn't agree more. Cheers, Ray-Z!

 

[AnnB]

I have yet to understand the coca cola in the diet...although if it is a tastier way to get Carbon Dioxide/carbonate water into the body, it works for me. Straight up bicarbonate in water is tolerable, however....which I've used often in the past to get beyond sour gut/acid reflux. Have had very little of that in the last 7 months on the low carb diet, and the other night when I ate out of turn for an experiment. But I didn't want to get out of bed, so just waited and then didn't need to resolve anything by morning.

So, is that why sweetened and caffeinated soda water is in the diet?

If so, perhaps we should all get the SODA STREAM product and carbonate our OJ and sugar syrup water with real vanilla bean or whatever pleases us, but without so many chemicals known to cause harm.

 

[kettlebell]

I have a Soda stream on my amazon wish list for my birthday haha.

Thats just the thing - Coca cola with sugar really doesn't seem to have any harmful components in it so using it as a part of a varied, nutrient rich diet is a good idea.

It has the same effect on me - Gets me warm in a matter of minutes. So I use it as an emergency "get out of cold free" card on a daily basis as my metabolism crashes suddenly and frequently at the moment.

Anecdotally many tour de france cyclists used to mix coca cola and milk and drink it all day long while cycling as it seemed help them sustain energy.

 

[charlie]

I want one of those soda stream deals!

Coca Cola(Mexican) immediately lifts me up after the first sip. Temp wise, and even mood wise. On the side of the bottle it says "refresco" which I am assuming is refreshing. And yes, yes it is very refreshing. I have one a day for lunch. Ray Peat says the sugar is good, the Co2 is good, also the natural flavoring is good. I have seen anecdotal reports of peoples health and energy levels improving after starting to drink Coca Cola.

 

[narouz]

I want one of those soda stream deals!

Coca Cola(Mexican) immediately lifts me up after the first sip. Temp wise, and even mood wise. On the side of the bottle it says "refresco" which I am assuming is refreshing. And yes, yes it is very refreshing. I have one a day for lunch. Ray Peat says the sugar is good, the Co2 is good, also the natural flavoring is good. I have seen anecdotal reports of peoples health and energy levels improving after starting to drink Coca Cola.

Couple of thoughts:

1. I don't think Peat ever says Coca-Cola should be a part of some optimal Peat diet or whatever.
I mean, he does not recommend Coke in the same sense he recommends, say,
the daily carrot salad or at least 2 quarts of milk per day.
I think Peat, in recommending Coke...I think he is being a little bit intentionally provocative.
I think he wants people to think about diet afresh,
to think about it without the old filters: sugar is bad, vegetables are good, etc.
With Coke, the right kind of Coke, one simply gets, hopefully,
a pretty clean dose of sugar, caffeince, and CO2,
without a whole lot of crap.

2. My favorite use for Coca-Cola
is for the Peat-suggested technique of trying to always
having some caffeine with meat--
because the caffeine blocks the iron absorption from the meat.
Peat always says to have coffee with meat,
but...that is very unnatural for me.
Is it for anybody else?
If I'm eating some steak, say,
I really have to go out of my way to try to drink coffee with it.
But Coke...perfect!

 

[charlie]

Narouz, I agree. Everyday at lunchtime is when I eat my "red meat" so thats why I plan my coca cola with it.

 

[j.]

I really have to go out of my way to try to drink coffee with it.
But Coke...perfect!

I have coffee only after beef liver. I couldn't do it after steak.

There is a study that suggests that Coca Cola doesn't reduce iron absorption.

A reduction in iron absorption was seen when serving tea (62 per cent) or coffee (35 per cent) with the meals. Orange juice increased the iron absorption (85 per cent). Pure alcohol and wine increased only slightly the percentage absorbed. Wine often has a high iron content, which increased significantly the amount of iron absorbed (three times). Milk and beer have no significant effect. Coca-Cola increased only slightly the absorption.

Effect of different drinks on the absorption of non-heme iron from composite meals.

 

[Franz]

Nice ling j.! I'm guessing the acidity of coke counters the inhibiting effects of the caffeine.

 

[charlie]

Ba Humbug J. !!!!!!

 

[narouz]

I really have to go out of my way to try to drink coffee with it.
But Coke...perfect!

I have coffee only after beef liver. I couldn't do it after steak.

There is a study that suggests that Coca Cola doesn't reduce iron absorption.

A reduction in iron absorption was seen when serving tea (62 per cent) or coffee (35 per cent) with the meals. Orange juice increased the iron absorption (85 per cent). Pure alcohol and wine increased only slightly the percentage absorbed. Wine often has a high iron content, which increased significantly the amount of iron absorbed (three times). Milk and beer have no significant effect. Coca-Cola increased only slightly the absorption.

Effect of different drinks on the absorption of non-heme iron from composite meals.

No, no.........my iron-blocking Coke dream now lies in tatters........

 

[j.]

No, no.........my iron-blocking Coke dream now lies in tatters........

sometimes studies are wrong, and maybe peat disagrees. this is something that seems hard to mess up, but never underestimate the "scientific" community.

 

[gabriel79]

Well, if we're to believe the abstract's conclusion, then only non-heme iron absorption is affected. So, unless you're getting your iron from the not too Peaty beans, lentils, etc; you shouldn't worry (at least from his study)

 

[narouz]

Well, if we're to believe the abstract's conclusion, then only non-heme iron absorption is affected. So, unless you're getting your iron from the not too Peaty beans, lentils, etc; you shouldn't worry (at least from his study)

My anti-iron Coke dream restored!
Thank you, gabriel!
That was easy!

 

[charlie]

Well, if we're to believe the abstract's conclusion, then only non-heme iron absorption is affected. So, unless you're getting your iron from the not too Peaty beans, lentils, etc; you shouldn't worry (at least from his study)

Gabriel saves the day!! Good catch!

 

[j.]

Good news, but is there a source that says that coca cola actually reduces absorption of iron from animals?

 

[norxgirl]

Found Mexican Coca-Cola here at my local Wal-Mart in Middle Tennessee. We do have a large Hispanic population here. I am so glad. It is $1.25 for a 12 ounce bottle. It is tasty.