CO2 Level Results Blood Labs

Discussion in 'Blood Work, Labs' started by raysputin, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    sorry if this was answered elsewhere, can't seem to find anything on it on the forum

    i had a blood test and my co2 levels were 22. thats the low end of the range (22-29)

    is a blood test a good indicator of co2 levels? i thought an ABG would tell accurate co2 levels.
     
  2. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I don't think you had an ABG. You would most likely know if you had an arterial stick as it can be painful and the normal range for co2 is 35-45 mm/Hg for arterial blood. It sounds more like a BMP/CHEM 7 venous result.
     
  3. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    It’s venous blood so fiends mean anything. I’m not sure about other things like carbonate levels.
     
  4. OP
    raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    Maybe my comment was unclear. I meant I had a blood test and not an ABG and was wondering if only an ABG could tell accurate blood levels of co2
     
  5. OP
    raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    So it could mean that on the morning of my blood test I had levels lower on the range, but doesn’t mean anything about co2 levels over time?
     
  6. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    no. The only test that really is reliable is an arterial CO2 test which due to the high pressure of arterial blood and the risk must be done in a hospital type setting.
     
  7. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Yes @ecstatichamster and you are both correct that an ABG is the most accurate way to measure blood co2. The venous blood co2 reflects bicarbonate status. In the US the test is primarily done in a hospital setting because it is reserved for critical care situations and requires a specific analyzer and specialty training to draw. Sometimes pulmonary clinics have the capability to do the test but they aren't often done in that setting unless a person has lung disease.
     
  8. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I've been thinking a lot about these relationships lately. As I got to understand more about blood pH imbalances (respiratory alkalosis and acidosis, and metabolic alkalosis and acidosis), the more I'm able to piece these relationships together. The venous serum bicarbonate (aka serum CO2) is an easy blood test to take, but in itself doesn't say much. In fact, in itself, it doesn't say much about the dissolved CO2 levels in blood. So the label "serum CO2) is a misnomer imho.

    If my metabolism is great, and if the lactic acid level in my blood is low, I could consider high venous bicarbonate levels to be a good thing. If I have metabolic acidosis, as when I have a high level of lactic acid in my blood, a high venous bicarbonate would result as a result of the kidneys compensating for a high serum acidity, or low pH, as more bicarbonates are needed to buffer the blood pH. So, in this case, a high bicarbonate reading would not be a good marker for health.

    I'm looking for other markers that can be used together with serum bicarbonate to get an idea of our health. I think that in a healthy person, dissolved CO2 levels would also be high, because higher CO2 levels would not result in hyperventilation, because the serum pH is not low enough to trigger it, and so dissolved CO2 would be allowed by the body to stay at higher levels. With a higher level of CO2, tissue oxygenation is maximized such that one can hold his breath longer. Seen in this way, one could use the control pause (a Buteyko term for how long one can hold his breath comfortably) together with the venous bicarbonate to get a better measure of his CO2 status.

    If venous bicarbonate is high and control pause is high, it could be a sign of CO2 health.If venous bicarbonate is high and control pause is low, could this be a sign of metabolic acidosis, or a state where serum lactic acid is high?

    I don't have a full grasp of this, but I hope you get the idea.
     
  9. OP
    raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    That makes sense. I’ve been hyperventilating a lot lately and trying to figure out what’s wrong
     
  10. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I'm actually having to correct myself on the metabolic acidosis condition. In a case of metabolic acidosis, where blood pH is affected disproportionately by the presence of lactic acid, the bicarbonate buffer's role is greatly diminished, to the extent that serum bicarbonate is lower than normal. This may be your case. But because the blood pH has to fall within a range, the body will signal bicarbonate to convert to CO2 in an effort to lower acidity (same as increasing pH). At the same time, the body triggers the lungs to hyperventilate in order to rid the blood of the CO2 being produced.

    The disproportionate amount of lactic acid in the blood is a result of poor metabolism, where lactic acid is a byproduct instead of carbon dioxide. With better metabolism, lactic acid production is reduced and CO2 production is increased. As less lactic acid is present in blood, more CO2 will be allowed in the blood, and the more bicarbonate will be depended upon to influence serum pH. This will result in higher serum bicarbonate levels.

    So your low bicarbonate levels and your hyperventilation is indicative of metabolic acidosis.
     
  11. Gohan

    Gohan Member

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    Syringe - Arterial
    pH 7.445
    pCO2 38.5 mmHg
    pO2 97.9 mmHg
    Hct 43 %
    Na 136.9 mmol/L
    K 3.80 mmol/L
    Cl 104.5 mmol/L
    iCa 1.15 mmol/L
    Glu 5.2 mmol/L
    Lac 1.6 mmol/L

    CALCULATED
    pH T 7.445
    pCO2 T 38.5 mmHg
    pO2 T 97.9 mmHg
    HCO3 26.7 mmol/L
    TCO2 27.9 mmol/L
    BE-ecf 2.4 mmol/L
    BE-b 3.2 mmol/L
    SBC 27.2 mmol/L
    O2Ct 20.0 mL/dL
    02Cap 20.1 mL/dL
    AlveolarO2 98.7 mmHg
    AaDO2 0.8 mmHg
    a/A 1.0
    RI 0.0
    PO2/FlO2 468.3 mmHg
    SO2% 97.9
    Hb 14.4 g/dl
    AnionGap 9.5 mmol/L
    nCa 1.18 mmol/L

    I just did an arterial blood gas test and to be honest dont really understand much of the stuff in here. I've been checking this since i have really slow metabolism, bpm, really low libido, erection problems all my life, constant bloating etc. If someone could help i would be really grateful! thank you in advance..
     
  12. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    This resource might help in your understanding.
    Common Laboratory (LAB) Values - ABGs - GlobalRPH
    It gives a detailed explanation for interpreting the pH, PCo2, Po2, HCo3 and BE and how they relate to one another.
     
  13. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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  14. Dr. C

    Dr. C Member

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    Basically your BGA looks good.
    When looking more closely on it I have concerns with two issues:
    a) pCO2 38,5 mmHg - this means you either have a far too low CO2 setpoint or you were hyperventilating when doing the test. My goal when peating 100% would be about 43+ mmHg
    b) Your lactate of 1.6 mmol/l is saying that a good amount of your cells is lacking oxygen, so it is turning to anaerobic glycolysis. This value never wents down to zero as your erythrocytes do not have mitochrondria and therefore can only do glycolysis. But I would like to see this value down to about 0.2-0.3 mmol/l. The lack of oxygen in your cells may be related to you hyperventilating (so less oxygen enters your cells because of the Bohr-Haldande-effect)

    I don't see much value in doing BGA without vital issues are you put your arteries to danger when doing the stick. Venous blood draws are much safer. Better messure CO2 in your breathing air (etCO2).
     
  15. Gohan

    Gohan Member

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    Thank you both so much for the help! I will try to find a Waveform capnography (that's etCO2 right?). I was doing this because i am constantly bloated whenever i eat carbs... any carbs. The only diet that doesn't leave me bloated is a carnivore diet and that cant be good long term... Too much gas on whatever carbs i eat and my mood goes down as well... I am getting fat on really low amount of calories for my bodyweight all my life and have been dealing with erectile dysfunction all my life. I was really fat as a kid and i don't know if i actually screwed something up when i was young and got fat on a lot of junk food and pufas. (i got fat at 7 years old so i really don't remember how i ate at that age..). Now i am 26 and i work as an athlete so maybe thats the reason for the lactate? Trying to get my health in my own hands led me to this borh-haldande effect and my interest in CO2 which than led me to this forum. If you guys have any tips regarding my issues please help. Thank u in advance and for all the help already given!
     
  16. Dr. C

    Dr. C Member

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    As an athlete, you should be lactate tollerant, but only when doing sports.

    Regarding your GI issues is looks like the wrong bactaria is living in your gut. If I were you I would PCR my microbiome to find out which exactly (clostridium species most likely) is overgrowing that you can start to target eliminating or reducing it.

    My guess is that rising CO2 levels will barely help with your gut issues.
     
  17. Gohan

    Gohan Member

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    I have campylobacter jejuni. :/
     
  18. Dr. C

    Dr. C Member

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    Than get resistance testing for that bug and start taking an adequate antibiotic, than repopulate your gut.
     
  19. Gohan

    Gohan Member

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    I already did and tried to eliminate it as my doctor told me with ampicilin but it didn't make any symptoms better for some time and the test showed no change. I started taking rifaximin and metronidazole. I suspect i have SIBO as well since pure sucrose and honey bloat me as well. When i started taking rifaximin and metronidazole the symptoms got a little better but not much. I've been taking them for two weeks now so i shall see how it goes for another couple of weeks. I added the carrot salad as well but if i eat more than 2 carrots a day i get sick and anxious. Dont really understand why that is.
     
  20. Dr. C

    Dr. C Member

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    As I said, don't just test for one bug, better do run a PCR do determine your whole microbiom. Maybe it is not only the campylabactor. Also repeat the test for the campylobacter and do a resistance testing as your choice of antibiotics may not have hit is. Also because of the antibiotics you took it is likely that you have now outselected other pathogenic bacteria.

    You need to get proper testing. Never ever take antibiotics again without resistance testting. Check your gut again after each course of antibiotics whether it has worked.

    Never take antibiotics without activly repopulating your gut with the right probiotics. Because if you don't, it will be repopulated by random. This is what a lot of people on this forum unfortunately get wrong. They think they could lower the amount of bacteria in total. What you really want is just a health gut flora without a lot of LPS producing bacteria and without bacteria which produce the bad kind of lactic acid.
     
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