CO2 Bag Therapy

Velve921

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Can someone please give me the exact protocol for CO2 bag therapy? Where do I buy it? How much? Step by step protocol? I want to experience the whoe body therapy in a trash bag but also on individual limbs.

Thanks!
 

loess

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CO2 is typically available through the carbonics industry. In most cities, there are suppliers who offer CO2 tanks typically marketed toward the pub/beverage/restaurant industry for soda fountains and beer (though there are countless other industrial clients that they serve; fire extinguisher companies, for instance). These are going to be larger tanks; I think the smallest size offered that you'd find would be 20 pounds. To obtain a tank, you typically need to pay an initial deposit for the tank itself, in addition to the CO2 that you're buying.

Another option is to buy a smaller (usually 20 oz) canister of CO2. These are usually marketed toward paintball and air rifle enthusiasts and many sporting goods stores offer a service to fill them (most places charge about $3 per fill). This method might be more practical depending on your needs and/or less of a hassle than dealing with the industrial people depending who you're working with. However it is also going to be considerably less value for your dollar, as the smaller canisters are marked up for retail and the stores make an easy profit by simply investing in larger tanks of CO2 and selling the service of filling your small canister.

As for a protocol for bag therapy, I have not tried it, though I have experimented with a low-dose delivery system of inhaled CO2 (around 2-5% concentration). This sort of thing has been discussed here on the forum with differing opinions on its safety and practicality. For full body immersion, perhaps one could cobble together a system using an industrial-sized trash liner bag and parts available at a hardware store. Or if you are aiming to localize treatment perhaps it you could go about it more crudely. Let's say you bruised your wrist and want to treat it with CO2. Maybe you just stick your arm in a plastic bag all the way up to, say, your elbow and run a hose from your CO2 source into it, secure the whole thing with a rubber band or tape so that it is more or less hermetically sealed, then turn on the CO2 and fill the bag?
 
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Velve921

Velve921

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Great Thoughts! What is the known success rate for healing sprains? Ankle, knee, etc..
 

tara

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loess

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I don't know of any research. I should also say that I am simply a layperson and not at all well-versed in the potential implications of bag therapy, especially full-body immersion in a bag of CO2. I would definitely err on the side of caution against any rapid and extreme shifts in oxygen levels. It is probably very worthwhile to consider methods of gradual adaptation to CO2 and oxygen manipulation in any therapeutic protocol. Bag breathing, Buteyko methods and other things along these lines are good examples. Read this thread for more: viewtopic.php?t=4184
 

tara

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I have not heard of any risks from transdermal CO2 therapy itself. I think there are some studies showing it to be effective for some conditions (cardiovascular disease?) if applied ~3 times/week for a small umber of weeks. Risks associated with applying it include: freeze burn to hand on tap while filling bag, and accidentally inhaling too much of the CO2 at too high a concentration and getting overwhelmed by it. I got slight dizziness when I got a couple of accidentally too strong puffs.
I think it's supposed to work better if the skin is wet. Applying the CO2 may bring on enough of a sweat to do this, but may be better to dampen skin first.

Peatarian has a post mentioning it too, I think she was spending an hour or two in it. And Peat has described sitting in a bag watching TV.
 

tara

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Miguel

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I got a 20lb CO2 tank from a fire/safety store and I also go back there to get it refilled.

Here's my experiences with CO2 therapy:

1. When I hurt my knee and it swelled, I filled a trash bag with CO2, put my leg in, and tightened the bag around my leg to keep the CO2 from escaping. I then slept with this on and did this every night for about 1-1.5 weeks. When I would take the bag off every morning, my leg would be wet but then the degree of wetness decreased as the days went by. The treated leg appeared to be leaner and it looked more defined. The difference between the two legs was enough that other people noticed the difference when I would show them.

2. I burned my thumb on a temperature probe that was in the oven. The part of my thumb that was burned started to turn whitish almost immediately after and I could easily make out my thumb print on the burned part. I took some Progest-E mixed with a little bit of olive oil and applied it to the burn. I then put my hand in a bag of CO2 and left it in there for most of the night (the burn occurred in the evening while I was making dinner). The next day my thumb appeared almost normal. You could still make out where the burn occurred but there was no pain or blistering. I ended up forgetting all about it and then noticed a few days later I could not make out where the burn had occurred.

3. My brother sprained his ankle in the afternoon and it was quite swollen by the time I saw it. I do not support the RICE (Rest Ice Compression Elevation) protocol for sprains b/c icing appears to hinder the healing process. I instead put his foot in a bag of CO2 and had him keep his leg/foot slightly elevated and told him to try to wiggle his toes and keep movement in his foot. (The movement involves muscle contractions which help your lymphatic system.) I believe he kept his foot in the bag of CO2 into the evening and then was able to walk on it that night and go to work the next day w/o issue.

4. I also occasionally take a bag and scoop up regular air, then I add a little CO2 to it and breathe/rebreathe the air in the bag for a while.

If anyone knows of some sort of body bag that could be used to have the air removed and replaced with CO2, please let me know.
 

tara

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Miguel said:
If anyone knows of some sort of body bag that could be used to have the air removed and replaced with CO2, please let me know.
Nice report. Mattress bags are what I have found big enough. I intend to try removing more of the air with a vacuum cleaner next time. We're getting into summer, so when a warm day coincides with me having an hour or two available, I intend to try again.
 

loess

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Wow, that's awesome Miguel. And tara as well -- I hadn't seen that other thread before, with the post about your experiments with sitting in the CO2 bag.

I often ponder what might happen if I was involved in a traumatic injury or other medical emergency, because my family is full of doctors and nurses who are trained in misinformation. I always think about writing up some sort of document that would lay out the terms of what treatments I would allow or disallow if I was rendered weak or unconscious, but I would have no way to enforce it. I wish I had friends or family that I could trust in my life to administer first aid in this way. I imagine CO2 would be involved on some level.

Miguel said:
If anyone knows of some sort of body bag that could be used to have the air removed and replaced with CO2, please let me know.
I wonder if there's a way to somehow modify those vacuum clothing/garment storage bag systems that used to be on late-night television infomercials back in the 90s...
 

Peatri Dish

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Just to be clear: the bag should not cover your head.
I know you probably know that, but better not leave it left unsaid.
 

tara

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Peatri Dish said:
Just to be clear: the bag should not cover your head.
I know you probably know that, but better not leave it left unsaid.
Absolutely - we don't want any candidates for the Darwin awards here. And be cautious about not accidentally breathing too strong a dose of any that leaks out. I found I'd sometimes get a puff pushed out the top when I moved, and I could taste it (like soda water - I didn't realise CO2 had a taste till then), and if I got too much I'd get slightly dizzy.
 

Trini Girl

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I am a user of microcirculation therapy where it uses medical grade vaporized CO2 delivered to the body transdermally which then triggers the body to deliver more blood with oxygen to the rest of the body. It doesn't hurt nor burn at all. It helps with endurance, skin care, and noticed I have better sleep now. What kind of co2 therapy are you guys using?
 

walker_in_aus

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Sop last night I made a paste of honey, gelatin, sugar and bicarb. I painted it on my legs. I then sprayed normal vinegar on, before sliding garbage bags over them. The vinegar and bicarb bubbled up with co2 and i left it on my legs for five minutes.

Sounds weird and my partner was just staring at me like WTF the whole time, but honestly my skin and my thighs were so soft, nice and less lumpy after!
 

Tink

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I've just had 3 days of (half an hour each day) Co2 therapy in a bag in Cheddar UK. I felt as light as a feather after and I feel it's sorted a lot of things out..not sure how long it will last. It's definately worth it.
 

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