Co Q10

heartnhands

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Apr 4, 2016
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He has said in several emails and articles that there is nothing CoQ10 can do that vitamin K cannot, and also do better in lower doses. So, instead of loading up on 2,400mg CoQ10 daily as in the Parkinson studies that were the only ones to show pro-metabolic effects, you may be better off financially and in terms of results by simply taking 15mg vitamin K2 (MK-4). Vitamin K can serve as an alternative electron carrier in complexes I and II even if CoQ10 is unavailable. So can methylene blue, and we all know how cheap MB is.
Excellent comparison.
 

whodathunkit

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CoQ10 didn't do a thing for me until I got some basic metabolic issues thrashed out first...mainly, mitochondrial function and methylation. After therapeutic application of a suite of supplements that specifically target mitochondria and the methylation cycle I noticed I could take a lot of things that previously had either not done me any good, or had actually made me feel worse. For example, CoQ10 gave me no reaction before this therapy, even when I took 600mg+ of it. P5P made me feel *horrible* before the therapy. Now both of those are two of my favorite supps. First time I got a lift from CoQ10 I was like oh, *that's* what they're talking about! :lol:

K2 has never and still does not give me any kind of discernible reaction that I can definitively connect to it, even at a really high dose. I've been using Thorne for years.
 

Peater Piper

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After therapeutic application of a suite of supplements that specifically target mitochondria and the methylation cycle I noticed I could take a lot of things that previously had either not done me any good, or had actually made me feel worse.
Do you mind sharing what those supplements were and how you knew it was an issue with mitochondria and methylation?
 

whodathunkit

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how you knew it was an issue with mitochondria and methylation?
I didn't. I was just searching and trying stuff out because the status quo was basically just a long, slow death. I was in bad shape. I was lucky enough to hit on a "Eureka" combo of stuff for me, as laid out by someone much smarter than I am. I figured out what was wrong with me *after* the supps worked and because they worked.

Foundational supps:

L-carnitine fumarate (LCF)
methylcobalamin (methylB12) injections
methylfolate (NOT folic acid)
adenosylcobalamin (adB12)
B2 (active flavin mononucleotide "FMN" form preferred)

I got fairly extreme reactions from all these things when I first started them. LCF (the biggest mito booster) was particularly hard for me to take. I had to stop and start it over a long period of months before I was able to tolerate it without it overstimulating me. I also got sick ("crashed") a lot during that first year with these supps...I missed five weeks off work that year because I kept getting the "flu". But each time I recovered from the flu I felt better than I had before. I stuck with these supps because underneath the bad sides was a feeling of more energy and rightness than I'd known since I was very young.

Other things that helped after I got started with these supps were potassium, magnesium, B6, pantethine, zinc, copper, etc. Most of the usual suspects. I had to experiment and figure out what worked for me and what didn't. CoQ10 added a pleasantly subtle but noticeable boost only after I'd been on the foundational supps for some months. Before getting acclimated to the supplements listed above, CoQ10 did jack squat for me. Now I take some every day.

I was in such bad shape that diet couldn't fix me. I tried Peat style and a bunch of stuff, with no success. Or maybe diet could've fixed me in the long run, but my neurotransmitters were in such bad shape that I couldn't stick with truly healthy food long enough to see the good results. Quitting PUFA and processed foods would drive me bats--t crazy after about 4 months. That was the max I could go on any diet/lifestyle before everything devolved back to my old habits. Correcting what I suspect were pretty severe nutritional deficiencies (for example, deficiencies of the two forms of B12) are IMO the only thing that has allowed me to overcome the lifelong recidivism to put myself back together. Overcoming the severe nutritional deficiencies is what allowed me to put my cravings more or less to bed, so that I've been able to stick with some healthy alternatives for the long term. Now I'm circling back around to Peat and I think this time I'm going to be able to take advantage of the wisdom.

My primary point is that I believe there is a foundational level of health we have to be at before certain interventions can work for us. If we don't have that foundational level of health, our chosen intervention won't work. I believe this is why some people get a boost from things like CoQ10, for example, but others of us feel nothing or it even makes us worse. I think this because I've been in both groups with regards to a lot of things, including CoQ10, progesterone, natural thyroids, and even Peat diet.

Finally, I'm not a scientist. I'm just a sojourner who happens to be sometimes good at listening to my body and figuring things out. I've had some luck in stumbling onto the things that have done me the most good, but mostly I've fixed myself through sheer stubbornness and refusal to give up. I'm recovering from some fairly severe metabolic problems, and one of my symptoms is cognition and focus. When I'm doing stream of consciousness writing like this I'm generally okay, but when it comes to structured technical explanations of complex topics...nope. Can't do it. So please don't ask me to cite it or find references for anything I say. People can take it or not, as they see fit. I'm just sharing what worked (or not) for me. Theory and citations don't matter nearly as much to me as real-world results. Most of what I say I will note that it's what I believe or my opinion or what I've experienced, anyway. We're all so different, there are no real absolutes. Well, except the absolute of we're all so different. :lol:
 
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Sinjin

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Nov 25, 2016
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I've found facial appearance noticeably improved on 100mg ubiquinol 3x / day - slightly more youthful appearance with better skin tone and leanness.

It's the jarrows formula ubiquonol softgels. Vitamin K doesn't seem to give the same benefits.
 

peep

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Aug 8, 2017
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My blood Q10 levels are low:
0,49 mg/l Q10 (normal levels from 0,86 - 1,43)

and my pyruvate levels are pretty high :
Pyruvate 272 umol/l (normal: 58-136)

Could there be some problem with the krebs cylce?
Like a pyruvate dehydrogenase deficiency?


Lactate levels are not that high though:
934 umol/l (normal <1500)
 

Waynish

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Oct 11, 2016
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I've found facial appearance noticeably improved on 100mg ubiquinol 3x / day - slightly more youthful appearance with better skin tone and leanness.

It's the jarrows formula ubiquonol softgels. Vitamin K doesn't seem to give the same benefits.

Interesting. Do you take it continuously? Any other differences you've noticed or combinations to consider in your case?
 

Sativa

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May 17, 2018
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...So, instead of loading up on 2,400mg CoQ10 daily as in the Parkinson studies that were the only ones to show pro-metabolic effects, you may be better off financially and in terms of results by simply taking 15mg vitamin K2 (MK-4)...
just an aside here - 2.4g of Q10 seems a bit ott - I reckon anything from 100-1000mg is a valid dose range, depending on context and intention.
Perhaps even 100mg Q10 with 5mg vit K2 ... * shrugs *
 

skycop00

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Mar 2, 2015
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Location
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He has said in several emails and articles that there is nothing CoQ10 can do that vitamin K cannot, and also do better in lower doses. So, instead of loading up on 2,400mg CoQ10 daily as in the Parkinson studies that were the only ones to show pro-metabolic effects, you may be better off financially and in terms of results by simply taking 15mg vitamin K2 (MK-4). Vitamin K can serve as an alternative electron carrier in complexes I and II even if CoQ10 is unavailable. So can methylene blue, and we all know how cheap MB is.

Vitamin K2 cannot substitute Coenzyme Q 10 as electron carrier in the mitochondrial respiratory chain of mammalian cells | Scientific Reports
 

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