Clonidine Lowers Cortisol, ACTH And Overall Stress Response

[answersfound]

Clonidine is pretty powerful stuff. In just 3 days I went from the high adrenaline, fight or flight state, to the depressed/hypnotic state described above. Now I see why Haidut recommends clonidine be taken at night. Being awake on this med is pretty brutal. Everything feels so dull, empty, meaningless, etc. I was also taking about 300 mcg per day.

 

[lexis]

"The long-term clonidine treatment induced behavioral depression in rats"

"Clonidine caused hypoactivity and loss of interest and investment in the environment both acutely (on day 1) and chronically (on day 15)"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2098750

Mirtazapine is one of the most effective antidepressants and it's alpha-2 antagonist.

Theanine gives the same feeling after few days.Perhaps serotonin was compensating for an inefficient thyroid function

 

[kaybb]

Has anyone used clonidine for hot flashes.....or insomnia?

 

[Derek]

post 68591

Haidut - Do you think clonidine has the ability to cause cavities as suggested above?

I have no idea, and a dentist would probably know better. All I know is the studies I have seen with it, and also none of the published side effects mention tooth decay.

No they don't mention tooth decay, but they do mention dry mouth. Dry mouth is one of the most common causes of cavities/tooth decay. Same with Cypro, dry mouth is listed as a side effect. It just sounds better to list dry mouth as a side effect as opposed to tooth decay, even though the former leads to the latter.

 

[haidut]

post 109808

post 68591

Haidut - Do you think clonidine has the ability to cause cavities as suggested above?

I have no idea, and a dentist would probably know better. All I know is the studies I have seen with it, and also none of the published side effects mention tooth decay.

No they don't mention tooth decay, but they do mention dry mouth. Dry mouth is one of the most common causes of cavities/tooth decay. Same with Cypro, dry mouth is listed as a side effect. It just sounds better to list dry mouth as a side effect as opposed to tooth decay, even though the former leads to the latter.

Actually primary cause of tooth decay is hypothyroidism and/or bacteria overgrowth. So, if not checked yet, I would check thyroid.

 

[Derek]

These drug studies seem promising and to people who are sick and desperate; they appear to be a panacea. But you have to understand stress hormones are high for a reason. Lowering them can be dangerous, depending on the dose and duration of said drug. Haidut's advice of 3-5 days seems sound, and is similar to Ray's 7-10 days of Cypro advice. But most people stay on these drugs far longer than they are advised. Why? Because they get short-term relief and when they stop symptoms come right back! It's because they never got down to the root cause of why they had high stress hormones in the first place.

People just assume that lowering stress hormones will allow thyroid to "takeover" however, that doesn't seem to happen for a lot of people; and they don't know why. If something is blocking thyroid, stress hormones rise. No one debates that, but they rise to keep you alive and to keep your body functioning. People assume by lowering them, that thyroid will takeover; but that's only if stress hormones were the true primary cause of the initial thyroid suppression. If they were just an adaptive process, then lowering them is not a good idea.

Example: Substance X suppresses thyroid/metabolism>stress hormones rise>you lower stress hormones>thyroid doesn't "take over" because Substance X is still present in the body suppressing thyroid/metabolism!

 

[Derek]

post 109815

post 109808

post 68591

Haidut - Do you think clonidine has the ability to cause cavities as suggested above?

I have no idea, and a dentist would probably know better. All I know is the studies I have seen with it, and also none of the published side effects mention tooth decay.

No they don't mention tooth decay, but they do mention dry mouth. Dry mouth is one of the most common causes of cavities/tooth decay. Same with Cypro, dry mouth is listed as a side effect. It just sounds better to list dry mouth as a side effect as opposed to tooth decay, even though the former leads to the latter.

Actually primary cause of tooth decay is hypothyroidism and/or bacteria overgrowth. So, if not checked yet, I would check thyroid.

All I can tell you is that I know of many people who have gotten cavities on medications that cause dry mouth. Yes, bacterial overgrowth is a cause, not denying that. That explains why antibiotics can help with oral health problems/cavities. But saliva is antimicrobial also, and it contains the minerals to remineralize teeth and keep bacteria at bay. Without keeping the teeth lubricated, bacteria grown on them and cause decay.

 

[haidut]

post 109820

post 109815

post 109808

post 68591

Haidut - Do you think clonidine has the ability to cause cavities as suggested above?

I have no idea, and a dentist would probably know better. All I know is the studies I have seen with it, and also none of the published side effects mention tooth decay.

No they don't mention tooth decay, but they do mention dry mouth. Dry mouth is one of the most common causes of cavities/tooth decay. Same with Cypro, dry mouth is listed as a side effect. It just sounds better to list dry mouth as a side effect as opposed to tooth decay, even though the former leads to the latter.

Actually primary cause of tooth decay is hypothyroidism and/or bacteria overgrowth. So, if not checked yet, I would check thyroid.

All I can tell you is that I know of many people who have gotten cavities on medications that cause dry mouth. Yes, bacterial overgrowth is a cause, not denying that. That explains why antibiotics can help with oral health problems/cavities. But saliva is antimicrobial also, and it contains the minerals to remineralize teeth and keep bacteria at bay. Without keeping the teeth lubricated, bacteria grown on them and cause decay.

The rat study that I saw with clonidine and tooth decay only lasted a few weeks and as such the decrease of saliva output is probably not a sufficient explanation. If clonidine does cause tooth decay it's probably related to it somehow increasing prolactin. Cortisol and prolactin/estrogen are two main mechanism behind bone loss and tooth decay. Since clonidine clearly does not increase cortisol the only other option is prolactin/estrogen. If somebody has a study on that please share.

 

[Velve921]

I am currently suffering excessive urination...I have tried cyproheptadine...initially 1mg a day made a tremendous difference; however, I now take 8mg a day and the urination decreasing effects have warn off. Has anyone had effects with clonidine decressing excessive urination? Haidut discussed clonidine decreasing excessive urination on Generative Energy Podcast 22.

Any feedback on experiences would be great. Thanks!

 

[Velve921]

I have cyproheptadine at 8mg a day for excessive urination....still not helpful. Anyone have experience with using clonidine for excessive urination? I know Haidut mentioned it on the podcast.

 

[charlie]

...for excessive urination....

@Ewlevy1 Doxylamine Succinate helps me with excessive urination? 1/4 to 1/3 of a pill can work wonders. :)

 

[Velve921]

So 6-8mg? I am already taking cyproheptadine at 4-8mg before bed time...have you taken in conjunction?

 

[DaveFoster]

I'd start very low with clonidine: 10 or 20 mcg (1/10 of a pill) like haidut recommends. If you lower your cortisol too much you'll get dizzy and very uncomfortable.

 

[DaveFoster]

Has anyone used clonidine for hot flashes.....or insomnia?

Yes; it lessens hot flashes.

It also lowers aldosterone like cyproheptadine:

The effect of clonidine on renin and aldosterone of hypertensive patients. - PubMed - NCBI

"Urinary aldosterone was significantly decreased by clonidine and aldosterone changes were unrelated to those parameters (PRA, plasma potassium, sodium balance, ACTH) which are known to influence aldosterone secretion, while GH showed a small increment the first day but was unchanged the fifth day. Plasma aldosterone was not significantly changed by clonidine but its changes showed an inverse correlation to urinary aldosterone changes."

 

[Velve921]

I'd start very low with clonidine: 10 or 20 mcg (1/10 of a pill) like haidut recommends. If you lower your cortisol too much you'll get dizzy and very uncomfortable.

I was referring to doxylamine succinate dosage.

Where do you get clonidine anyway?

 

[DaveFoster]

I was referring to doxylamine succinate dosage.

Where do you get clonidine anyway?

Arkamin 100 mcg Online | Buy At AlldayChemist

 

[charlie]

So 6-8mg?

Yes, sometimes up to half a pill if needed. A whole pill wipes me out, but I do take a whole pill occasionally to be wiped out.

...have you taken in conjunction?

No.

 

[Velve921]

I tried 25 mg of doxyalmine succicinate...it definitely made me drowsy but urination was still the same unfortunately. I will continue trying different dosages to see if there is a different effect. Thank you for your help everyone!

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I am messing with clonidine again. I have the 150 mcg pills.

I read online that for anxiety for example the dose should be 100 mcg twice daily. I halved my pill and took 75 mcg. Within 2 hours I was very drowsy and by the 3rd hour I was asleep on the bed. Woke up 4 hours later super tired and spaced out. Checked my blood pressure and had some weirdness, 130/100, 111/65, etc. Made me a bit scared and started sweating until I calmed down. Still was super dazed for the next hour. Went out for a bike ride. Was much better when I came home. I believe I am going to stick to 1/4ths (37.5 mcg) dosed multiple times daily. 75 mcg at once kicks me way way too hard. I took 37.5 mcg 3 hours ago and didn't get any of those negative effects so this seems to be the most I can tolerate at once.


I feel it has potential but since it's tied so closely to blood pressure (which in my case isn't very high to begin with) it is going to be somewhat limited in how much you can take without crashing your blood pressure.

 

[ThinkPerceive]

I have chronic hypertension, and NOTHING 'Peaty' - in five plus years - has touched it at all.

I'm going to ask my doctor about Clonipine this time.

There seem to be too few meds for hypertension that are even remotely positive, and this seems a likely candidate. And - bonus - it's possible that my normal non-response to any substances (I could pop 100+ mcg T3 daily and not ever feel a thing) might be related to the stress/adrenaline issues that Clonipine addresses.

That would be significant if so.

Added: however, if Clonidine causes ED, then I'm out. That's an issue for me. I was on Amlodipine for a while and thought that was the cause, but I've been off that for a month or more, and no change there.