Clonidine Lowers Cortisol, ACTH And Overall Stress Response

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Nov 13, 2014.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    It is well known that clonidine lowers adrenalin, and Ray has written about it. It looks like clonidine is also able to restrain the other side of the sympathetic stress response - the ACTH, cortisol, hyperglycemia process. All studies below are in humans. So, it looks like clonidine may be a good option for stopping the stress response in people who have trouble regulating it with just sugar, salt and protein. There are quite a few studies showing benefit from short-term low-dose clonidine administration on stress paramaters induced by events like surgery, septic shock, trauma, etc. Average duration is about 3-5 days. So, a possible protocol would be to take 100mcg - 200mcg clonidine before bed for 3-5 days to keep cortisol and adrenalin at bay, which should give the body a break and allow for thyroid to take over.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10949540
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6302442
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4011650
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2847928
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9579500
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11546715
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8218604
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    11,291
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Thank you haidut. :hattip
     
  3. LucyL

    LucyL Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    482
    Common Drugs promote tooth decay

     
  4. Kasper

    Kasper Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    671
    Gender:
    Male
    Never would have thought that norepinephrine would be helpfull for salivary glands. I thought that drugs like ritalin, MDMA stimulate norepinephrine, but they seem to all cause a dry mouth.
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    If clonidine is anti-cholinergic this makes it a good drug for memory problems and dementia conditions like Alzheimer's disease. The article does mention that some doctors prescribe it for ADHD so that's matches well with its anti-cholinergic effects.
     
  6. Brian

    Brian Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    505
    My mom had a bike accident a couple years ago where she slightly fractured her pelvis. She healed well, but ever since then she has been complaining of feeling much more stressed, poor sleep and has been gaining weight around the waist. She was going through menopause before the accident.

    Recently, I've helped her make sure she's eating a cortisol lowering diet with fairly Peaty foods, but that hasn't significantly brought her high stress symptoms into control. So I was wondering if Clonidine might be a safe and effective thing for her to try. She's seeing her doctor soon, who thinks she might have a pseudo-Cushing's syndrome. So I told her to ask her doctor about getting a prescription for Clonidine for general cortisol lowering treatment.

    Does this sound like a reasonable use for Clonidine? For anybody who has received a prescription for it, do you have any tips for how to talk to the doctor about it? Also, any advice for dosing for those who have tried it?
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    That's one of its off-label uses among PTSD survivors, who have chronically elevated cortisol and adrenalin. So, if the doctor approves of it it should be helpful for your mom, assuming her issue is with cortisol/adrenalin.
     
  8. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    833
    The orthodox view is that clonidine acts as an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist, rather than having anti-cholinergic actions:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonidine# ... _of_action

    Clonidine may have merit. I am not aware of primary anti-cholinergic action attributed to clonidine. As noted, it may be that beneficial effects are arrived at through clonidine relieving other pathways of decline.

    ( I lack a clear read at present on how imidazolidine pathways relate to Dr. Peat's view of metabolism.)
     
  9. chris

    chris Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    UK
    Haidut - Do you think clonidine has the ability to cause cavities as suggested above?
     
  10. miko

    miko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Poland
    Do you people tried clonidine? I have tried it in the past and it's very sedating, I have depression and it has depressiogenic effect in my case. Clonidine can decrease dopamine release in prefronal cortex. It's not so good...
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    I have no idea, and a dentist would probably know better. All I know is the studies I have seen with it, and also none of the published side effects mention tooth decay.
     
  12. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Clonidine is indeed very sedating. But it also decreases serotonin, so it's overall mental effects are similar to cyproheptadine, which also decreases both serotonin and dopamine (to a lesser extent). As far as causing depression, I am not going to argue about the way you feel but this study claims that if anything clonidine should relieve depression.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25271382

    If you have bipolar depression that may explain it, but again I am not an expert and if it makes you feel bad then it probably should be stopped and talk to your doctor about what may be causing this.
     
  13. miko

    miko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Poland
    "The long-term clonidine treatment induced behavioral depression in rats"

    "Clonidine caused hypoactivity and loss of interest and investment in the environment both acutely (on day 1) and chronically (on day 15)"

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2098750

    Mirtazapine is one of the most effective antidepressants and it's alpha-2 antagonist.
     
  14. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Well, if you suppress your adrenalin you can expect some loss of activity. Stress is by definition a state with high adrenalin and high cortisol. So, if you go the other extreme you can get into a hypnotic/depressed state I guess. It's about balance, nobody is saying you need to have your adrenalin and cortisol drop to zero. Btw, that's one of the reasons Ray says drugs should be taken short term only. You don't want to yo-yo form one extreme into another.
    Also, if mirtazapine is indeed adrenergic then it's a poison if taken long-term. It's basically a pro-stress drug. The situation is like the Paleo diet - eaten short term you get a rush of energy from the high cortisol and adrenalin and then you crash when you mess up you metabolism and your adrenals crash.
     
  15. miko

    miko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Poland
    Mirtazapine is adrenergic but it's lowers cortisol and overall activity of HPA axis.

    Alpha-2 adrenergic receptors are important adrenergic autoreceptors (somatodendritic autoreceptors) but noradrenaline plays with dopamine in CNS. Alpha-2 antagonism cause dopamine release in prefrontal cortex and increase activity of ventral tegmental area dopamine neurons. NRI drugs increase dopamine in prefrontal cortex etc.

    Ray Peat in "autonomic systems" says about importance of noradrenaline and sympathetic system (in in opposition to parasympathetic nervous system)

    http://raypeat.com/articles/other/auton ... tems.shtml

    We must to distinguish adrenaline from noradrenaline. I'm talking about noradrenaline in nervous system, not adrenaline release from adrenal medulla.
     
  16. Brian

    Brian Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    505
    Thanks Haidut and miko. Her doctor of course thought it was a bad idea and recommended melatonin. I'd rather she focus on red light therapy. I'm going to see what local tanning salons have to offer to make it simple for her on her way home from work.
     
  17. miko

    miko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Poland
    Anyone should try clonidine, but they will quickly see that it's difficult to function normally while on this drug.
     
  18. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    However, for people who are withdrawing from drugs or alcohol abuse clonidine is the only way they can function without relapsing. Check PubMed - clonidine is now being considered as a first line therapy to withdraw people from substance abuse, rather than rely on drugs like naloxone and naltrexone. So, given the high serototnin, high adrenalin state of those people and their high stress levels I think it makes sense for a person with similar symptoms. I don't think I have ever advocated using clonidine for use by a healthy person unless there is some acute stress like car accident or health scare, to avoid forming a traumatic memory.
     
  19. miko

    miko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Poland
    Yes but this people should be warn that this drug may have depressiogenic effects. I am suffering from depression for about 10 years and I tried many medications so I'm sensitive to this.

    I tried many antidepressants, SSRI, tianeptine, bupropion etc. even cyproheptadine in dose 16 mg for 6 weeks. I can't tolerate thyroid hormones.

    And mirtazapine is drug that works best for my depression. I do not have a choice because I tried the "Ray Peat" road for depression.
     
  20. sunflower1

    sunflower1 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    74
    Someone pointed me over here in regard to the stress response I am stuck in. I'm running high adrenaline and cortisol at night i believe.. I was doing pretty good Ray peaty until about 6 weeks ago when I started to feel like I was having a nervous breakdown. I have complex PTSD too so that makes things a little more confusing.
    I have low potassium and am loosing magnesium thru my hair..
    I'm currently not able to sleep very much, maybe a few hours a night, waking up sweating, or clammy or not being able to fall asleep, nightmares when I do.. I have no appetite and am feeling nausea all day long. I also have tinnitus in my right ear and my arms feel like they are tingling , like my nervous system is on fire..

    I took some Doxylamine succinate last night and got a few hours sleep but woke up with chronic tingling again ..

    I took a month off work to try and sort this out but no luck..

    I went to see a doctor today for some bloodwork and go back next week for results..

    I have low blood pressure

    this morning my temps were
    98.9/68 upon awakening
    98.4/78 after breakfast

    my adrenal function is pretty low and I've had chronic fatigue for 18 years until i started peating.Now I think I''m seeing i chronically run on adrenaline and thats wha made me ill to start off with 18 years back..

    Looking into EMDR but not sure thats gonna help my body
     
Loading...