Clomid made me terribly depressed

tankasnowgod

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I experimented with Clomid a few years ago, it made me really sad over just the course of a couple days. A noticeable change in mood. I stopped after a few days, symptoms went away quickly.

Tried it again, since I still had lots, same thing, stopped in a couple days. I don't think it's very good in general.

Didn't get the same effects at all from Exemestane. It's far better, IMO. I did get some noticeable worsening of mood after taking 6.25mg every day for two months. That went away after stopping for two days.
 

Frankdee20

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I experimented with Clomid a few years ago, it made me really sad over just the course of a couple days. A noticeable change in mood. I stopped after a few days, symptoms went away quickly.

Tried it again, since I still had lots, same thing, stopped in a couple days. I don't think it's very good in general.

Didn't get the same effects at all from Exemestane. It's far better, IMO. I did get some noticeable worsening of mood after taking 6.25mg every day for two months. That went away after stopping for two days.
Examastane doesn’t agonize Estrogen anywhere is a completely different drug, it doesn’t even work on the receptor
 

ronin570

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It’s quite dumb to take these drugs. The side effects are horrible, I took nolvadex once and basically lost my ability to drive safely at night while on it. Thankfully wasn’t permanent but I hear clomid can cause even stronger vision side effects . I remember being horribly depressed too.
 

Mister

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Well, not permanently, for certain. In a 2-4 week course to stimulate your HPTA axis into producing testosterone again, why not? Steroid users swear by it.

Let me be clear - I don't enjoy Nolva. I wrote above I feel messed on it. But I am using it as part of my experimental treatments against PFS, and I don't know of any other drug that can combat purposefully induced suppression from steroids this quickly. Do you?
Cycling it for PFS purposes is a good tactic. Some recovered with these SERMS for PFS.
 

MitchMitchell

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I experimented with Clomid a few years ago, it made me really sad over just the course of a couple days. A noticeable change in mood. I stopped after a few days, symptoms went away quickly.

Tried it again, since I still had lots, same thing, stopped in a couple days. I don't think it's very good in general.

Didn't get the same effects at all from Exemestane. It's far better, IMO. I did get some noticeable worsening of mood after taking 6.25mg every day for two months. That went away after stopping for two days.

yeah, this is what happens when you prevent estradiol from binding to its receptor one way or another. You’ll get sad, have terrible skin, hair loss, trashed lipids, increase your CVD risk, cancer, visceral fat. All from low estradiol.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Ray is terribly 100% wrong on estradiol because of his research on synthetic estrogens. What’s baffling is he is right on progesterone and virtually all other hormones. Neal Rouzier has what y’all need.
 

MitchMitchell

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Well, not permanently, for certain. In a 2-4 week course to stimulate your HPTA axis into producing testosterone again, why not? Steroid users swear by it.

Let me be clear - I don't enjoy Nolva. I wrote above I feel messed on it. But I am using it as part of my experimental treatments against PFS, and I don't know of any other drug that can combat purposefully induced suppression from steroids this quickly. Do you?

HCG is better, like I said. Literally stimulate steroidegenesis directly via acting on enzymes that pump out those drugs. Serms are useful for steroid users because as synthetic estrogenic compounds they shoot up shbg. Which gives the impression of better numbers on a bloodwork. But honestly that’s about all they do. Very weak symptoms wise.
 

tankasnowgod

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Estradiol does the opposite of this. Literally the exact opposite.
So you are saying estradiol makes you lean, happy, have great skin, and be cancer free?

This is the exact opposite of what Ray Peat says. Got any proof of this?

Oh, wait. You cite Rouzier, whose studies in men that he cites was discussed here-


My first take, from that thread-

This talk is insanely dubious. Here is the full text of one of the studies they talked about when they claim that inhibiting aromatase increases body fat in men-

Aromatase Inhibition Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Healthy Men

What's the actual result from the study in regards to bodyfat?

"No significant differences in weight (82.2 ± 3.4 vs 81.8 ± 3.4 kg, P = .404), body mass index (25.9 ± 1.1 vs 25.7 ± 1.1 kg/m2, P = .445), or percentage body fat (16.4% ± 1.9% vs 16.4% ± 1.9%, P = .957) were observed between anastrozole and placebo treatment. "

They then DO take a quote from the study to make their claim-

"Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis"

But....... this was only a six week study. They conveniently left out the first part of the quote, which was talking about the actual results-

"No differences were observed in body composition as determined by body mass index, weight, or body fat percentage between placebo and anastrozole phases. This is not unexpected after only 6 weeks of therapy. Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis."

Freaking slimy, huh? THIS is the study the authors were referring to in reference to the "16 weeks" quote.

Gonadal steroids and body composition, strength, and sexual function in men. - PubMed - NCBI

Check out this out from the abstract-

"METHODS:
We provided 198 healthy men 20 to 50 years of age with goserelin acetate (to suppress endogenous testosterone and estradiol) and randomly assigned them to receive a placebo gel or 1.25 g, 2.5 g, 5 g, or 10 g of testosterone gel daily for 16 weeks. Another 202 healthy men received goserelin acetate, placebo gel or testosterone gel, and anastrozole (to suppress the conversion of testosterone to estradiol). Changes in the percentage of body fat and in lean mass were the primary outcomes. Subcutaneous- and intraabdominal-fat areas, thigh-muscle area and strength, and sexual function were also assessed."

Okay, so the source of their "claim" that inhibiting estrogen leads to bodyfat gain is a study where both Testosterone and Estradiol were suppressed, and then test replaced and some got AIs and some didn't. Far cry from even saying that a pharmaceutical AI, let alone inhibiting or reducing estrogen, somehow causes fat gain.

If that's the basis for your and Rouzier's belief that Estrogen or Estradiaol is good for men...... well, good luck with that.
 

tankasnowgod

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yeah, this is what happens when you prevent estradiol from binding to its receptor one way or another. You’ll get sad, have terrible skin, hair loss, trashed lipids, increase your CVD risk, cancer, visceral fat. All from low estradiol.

Or....... it's a direct side effect of Clomid, which is estrogenic itself.
 

b555

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May 30, 2020
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estrogens that aren’t bioidentical (anything but estradiol basically, estrone and estriol being too weak comparatively) are awful and should be avoided

estradiol is great and shouldn’t be blocked. Don’t ever touch serms.

@Cooper if test/cortisol ratios are balanced google Dr Shippen’s HCG protocol and stick to it.
I have met and spoken with dr shippen several times. I was one of the rare ones that did quite well on low dose clomid. Shippen had most of his patients on compounded testosterone cream applied to the scrotum usually used long side of hcg
 
OP
Ideal man

Ideal man

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I want to smash my head into a wall when i read males using Clomid. Seriously why doctors prescribe this? At least we suppose to have take Tamoxifen from what i have seen and researched, not Clomid. Don't listen to your doctors advice right of the bat. They are unawere of the recent studies and operate on old knowledge. Clomid decreases LH's response to GnRH and it is a more Estrogen agonistic drug. We want antagonistic effects. The second isomer inside the Clomid, which is Zuclomiphene is a highly Estrogen Agonistic compound. And it has a longer half life than Enclomiphene (the first antagonistic isomer that we need) so it accumulates in the body and causes Estrogenic side effects.

Tamoxifen is a more Estrogen Antagonistic agent on tissues with less side effects. And it actually increases LH's response to GnRH. And is powerful than Clomid. It does the same job of 150mg Clomid with only 20mg's. There are couple studies on this, just search it. Here is one. I hope this helps :)

PS: I am using Tamoxifen with zero side effects right now and i just gave bloods. I will post them when the results come and we can see pre- and post results.



What dosage of tamoxifen are you using whats your T levels on it
 

Cooper

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What dosage of tamoxifen are you using whats your T levels on it
Tamox didn't work. My TT increased to 638 but Free T stayed same at 20. Due to shbg increase or smth. Strangely, my LH and FSH didn't change too!! I took tamox first 10 mg eod and then 20mg eod i think for 8 weeks. Now im on HGH and HCG.
 

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