Circadian T3 Method - why taking thyroid hormone at the proper time is important

[Kozak]

Thanks so much for the explanation.

 

[Elize]

Kozak

How important is bile and the liver to absorbtion of thyroid meds and minerals? I take ox bile with a meal since I have no gallbladder.

 

[Kozak]

Kozak

How important is bile and the liver to absorbtion of thyroid meds and minerals? I take ox bile with a meal since I have no gallbladder.

Bioavailability of thyroid hormones from oral replacement preparations

The bioavailability of T3 and T4 is considered very high from both bio-identical and NDT meds. Usually they are taken on an empty stomach (above study for instance). It is generally accepted that food will interfere with the absorption, but I have not seen any studies on that.

It's a bioidentical substance that can be applied transdermally or sublingually. From all this I would think it does not need bile, HCl or any enzymes to be properly absorbed. Actually the opposite might be true and it might destroy some of it.
However the condition of the intestine lining might have big impact on the absorption.

You can not generalize the minerals. They are different and come in different forms.

Anyway don't listen to anyone blindly - do you own research.

 

[Vileplume]

I recently started taking T3 and 1/2 grain NDT (I couldn’t tolerate any NDT before using the T3 first for a few days to lower stress hormones) but have noticed that if I take the NDT in the morning, it is much more likely to cause a stress response w/ high heart rate. My heart rate is always highest in the morning, usually in the 90s as I eat breakfast, so taking NDT at this point usually sends my heart rate into the 100s.

My heart rate gradually dips throughout the day, reaching its low point (55 bpm) at around 9 pm, dropping even a bit lower as I sleep. When I take NDT before bed, it does not cause a stress response, although it does not lead to deeper sleep.

Do you think that high morning heart rate indicates a circadian issue? Would it be a good rule of thumb to take NDT when the heart rate is lowest, to minimize the chance of a stress response?

 

[FitnessMike]

I recently started taking T3 and 1/2 grain NDT (I couldn’t tolerate any NDT before using the T3 first for a few days to lower stress hormones) but have noticed that if I take the NDT in the morning, it is much more likely to cause a stress response w/ high heart rate. My heart rate is always highest in the morning, usually in the 90s as I eat breakfast, so taking NDT at this point usually sends my heart rate into the 100s.

My heart rate gradually dips throughout the day, reaching its low point (55 bpm) at around 9 pm, dropping even a bit lower as I sleep. When I take NDT before bed, it does not cause a stress response, although it does not lead to deeper sleep.

Do you think that high morning heart rate indicates a circadian issue? Would it be a good rule of thumb to take NDT when the heart rate is lowest, to minimize the chance of a stress response?

Hi mate, any progress? lets keep this thread alive.

 

[FitnessMike]

Вітаю!

I'm not sure what exactly tyromix is. Looks to me like T3/T4 combo. For me T4 does not work. I tried to add it a few times at different times - not working for me. This is exactly what Paul talks in his book. I take T3 only and I started with a lower dose and slowly moved it from 6am to 2am in 1/2hour decrement. Than I slowly increased the dose. You should not feel uncomfortable at all if you have the right dose/timing.

Cheers

did you ever try to stop CT3M? how long are you taking it for?

 

[FitnessMike]

@Ihor were you thinking about trying CT3M to help with the cortisol/adrenal hormones?

 

[Einklang]

I got headaches taking t3 earlier in the day. I've started taking it before bed, not on purpose, and the effects have disappeared.

 

[Ihor]

@Ihor were you thinking about trying CT3M to help with the cortisol/adrenal hormones?

Hi, yes I have already tried CT3M and did not get any improvement from it, half recently I stopped responding to almost everything, t3, t4, hydrocortisone - nothing works out of this in different doses, so I stopped them, it did not improve the constant fatigue, low energy, brain fog.
The last laboratory test showed a high estrgen of 78 pg / ml (ref: 10-40) and a low free testosterone of 27 pg / ml (ref: 47 to 293), while serum cortisol was already quite high compared to the previous low cortisol saliva.
This study may explain why my cortisol is not working, estradiol actually stimulates cortisol binding globulin (CBG), which binds cortisol, cortisone that I was taking, progesterone and makes them inactive, it may explain that firstly I have low the level of free cortisol in saliva and the total level of serum cortisol is at a decent level, and the fact that when I take hydrocortisone it does not work for me, estrogen also stimulates SHBG, lowering the level of free testosterone, which is probably all this mess is making me immune to thyroid supplements. Now I'm trying to lower my estrogen and see if something moves.

 

[Vileplume]

Hi mate, any progress? lets keep this thread alive.

Hey man, still experimenting and kinda using the CT3M. The T3 originally lowered my adrenaline a ton and allowed me to tolerate NDT, so I gradually upped the NDT up to about a grain. I was taking half of this dose at 3 am, in line with CT3M. I increased too fast I think, because I started getting adrenaline symptoms at this dose.

I backed off the NDT and the high adrenaline did not reduce, so I restarted slowly with the NDT, dosing 1/4 grain before bed instead of at 3 am. I’m taking a few mcg of T3 throughout the day, and at 3 am too (if I wake up at this time, which I usually do to pee). So far, this has worked well with tolerable (but still high) adrenaline. I still have a perpetual high heart rate. Although, a few days ago I tried high-dose thiamine hcl and this reduced my adrenaline and heart rate down to normal levels. Unfortunately, the powder also upset my stomach, so I have now order energin and thiamax (allithiamine) so I will test those out when I get them. What’s new with you?

 

[FitnessMike]

What’s new with you?

I am waiting for the reverse test to arive as i need to see if its high, but the first thing now i will be doing is t3 only and see if this somehow raise my pulse and generally help with the symptoms, and second, after i will do CT3M if necessary. When i do drop of tyromix before bed i can tell my sleep is deeper and i dream more, but im wide awake at 3am, and not wide awake ready to eat because glycogen runs out, wide wake from cortisol surge, as @Kozak mentioned, seems that taking thyroid before bed will raise your cortisol prematurely at night. Anyways im suspecting that i have got high rt3 and t4 in tyromix wasnt helpings. I hope the rt3 test that meant to be drawn from a vein, there won't be a problem to take blood from the fingertip?

@Vileplume were you trying go t3 solo?

 

[FitnessMike]

Hi, yes I have already tried CT3M and did not get any improvement from it, half recently I stopped responding to almost everything, t3, t4, hydrocortisone - nothing works out of this in different doses, so I stopped them, it did not improve the constant fatigue, low energy, brain fog.
The last laboratory test showed a high estrgen of 78 pg / ml (ref: 10-40) and a low free testosterone of 27 pg / ml (ref: 47 to 293), while serum cortisol was already quite high compared to the previous low cortisol saliva.
This study may explain why my cortisol is not working, estradiol actually stimulates cortisol binding globulin (CBG), which binds cortisol, cortisone that I was taking, progesterone and makes them inactive, it may explain that firstly I have low the level of free cortisol in saliva and the total level of serum cortisol is at a decent level, and the fact that when I take hydrocortisone it does not work for me, estrogen also stimulates SHBG, lowering the level of free testosterone, which is probably all this mess is making me immune to thyroid supplements. Now I'm trying to lower my estrogen and see if something moves.

dont give up , well get there eventually

 

[Ihor]

dont give up , well get there eventually

Thanks, I will update if I get any results, there are still no improvements.

 

[Vileplume]

I am waiting for the reverse test to arive as i need to see if its high, but the first thing now i will be doing is t3 only and see if this somehow raise my pulse and generally help with the symptoms, and second, after i will do CT3M if necessary. When i do drop of tyromix before bed i can tell my sleep is deeper and i dream more, but im wide awake at 3am, and not wide awake ready to eat because glycogen runs out, wide wake from cortisol surge, as @Kozak mentioned, seems that taking thyroid before bed will raise your cortisol prematurely at night. Anyways im suspecting that i have got high rt3 and t4 in tyromix wasnt helpings. I hope the rt3 test that meant to be drawn from a vein, there won't be a problem to take blood from the fingertip?

@Vileplume were you trying go t3 solo?

Nice, yeah I think T3 only is a good call if T4 products raise adrenaline. I used to not tolerate any NDT at all, not even a drop, but after using T3 only for a few days (like 15-18mcg a day) I was able to tolerate NDT in small amounts, more than before the T3.

Since my major adrenaline symptom is high heart rate, I find it more effective to dose the NDT when my heart rate is low. The T3 usually has no effect on my pulse, or even lowers it a bit.

 

[FitnessMike]

Hi, yes I have already tried CT3M and did not get any improvement from it, half recently I stopped responding to almost everything, t3, t4, hydrocortisone - nothing works out of this in different doses, so I stopped them, it did not improve the constant fatigue, low energy, brain fog.
The last laboratory test showed a high estrgen of 78 pg / ml (ref: 10-40) and a low free testosterone of 27 pg / ml (ref: 47 to 293), while serum cortisol was already quite high compared to the previous low cortisol saliva.
This study may explain why my cortisol is not working, estradiol actually stimulates cortisol binding globulin (CBG), which binds cortisol, cortisone that I was taking, progesterone and makes them inactive, it may explain that firstly I have low the level of free cortisol in saliva and the total level of serum cortisol is at a decent level, and the fact that when I take hydrocortisone it does not work for me, estrogen also stimulates SHBG, lowering the level of free testosterone, which is probably all this mess is making me immune to thyroid supplements. Now I'm trying to lower my estrogen and see if something moves.

Did you try t3 only for awhile? im not doing t3 only and seem that pulse is slowly raising, but it was only few days

 

[Ihor]

Did you try t3 only for awhile? im not doing t3 only and seem that pulse is slowly raising, but it was only few days

Yes, for T3CM I did t3 only, do you mean that add some t4 could works better?

 

[FitnessMike]

Yes, for T3CM I did t3 only, do you mean that add some t4 could works better?

Did you test rt3? I started t3 only now and my pulse raising for the first time now, so im suspecting high rt3, hoping to improve rest symptoms in time this way

 

[Ihor]

Did you test rt3? I started t3 only now and my pulse raising for the first time now, so im suspecting high rt3, hoping to improve rest symptoms in time this way

No, there are no any labs in my country that can test rT3, but it would be interesting to know, even up to 50 mcg/day of t3 doesn't increase HR which always was 55-65, so I suppose until I drop my estradiol, nothing of these will be work well.
Also forgot to say I noticed some strange increase morning temperature and brain focus after night t3 with magnesium + vitamin C, probably this combo give more raw material for support adrenal CT3M.

 

[FitnessMike]

No, there are no any labs in my country that can test rT3, but it would be interesting to know, even up to 50 mcg/day of t3 doesn't increase HR which always was 55-65, so I suppose until I drop my estradiol, nothing of these will be work well.
Also forgot to say I noticed some strange increase morning temperature and brain focus after night t3 with magnesium + vitamin C, probably this combo give more raw material for support adrenal CT3M.

so you actually see improvements in cortisol from ct3m ? how much are you taking at night and how long were you doing it for so far?

 

[Ihor]

so you actually see improvements in cortisol from ct3m ? how much are you taking at night and how long were you doing it for so far?

It can be called a morning boost or improvement, and although to lunchtime there is little left of it and I am tired again, therefore nothing seems to be corrected systemically, I gave it one week in a row and after I saw my already high enough serum cortisol test, but no improvement of others symptoms, which I expected from a rise in cortisol, then I stopped. Since I don't have a clear response to different dosages of t3, so I took 5 mcg t3 + 200 mg of oral magnesium + 1 gram of vitamin C. Since the adrenal glands also produce DHEA and Paul Robinson said that CT3M in addition to cortisol, also raised his testosterone, then perhaps lung the feeling of heat in the body in the morning that I got from this combination suggests that it also has a better effect on the production of other anabolic hormones in the night window.