Circadian T3 Method - why taking thyroid hormone at the proper time is important

Diokine

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If you're having issues with thyroid supplementation, part of the issue may be the time you are taking your supplements. Supplementing with thyroid hormone outside of physiological windows can cause issues with circadian timing in the pituitary. It is important to work in concert with the bodies natural systems for the greatest therapeutic effect. In this context, NDT, T4, and especially T3 may be better utilized if taken in the evening before bed.

I have place a linked to Paul Robinson's website (writer of the circadian T3 method) below, as well as a link to study he mentions in the article.

Why The Circadian T3 Method is So Important to Thyroid Patients – Text Version




Free Triiodothyronine Has a Distinct Circadian Rhythm That Is Delayed but Parallels Thyrotropin Levels
FT3 shows a circadian rhythm with a periodicity that lags behind TSH, suggesting that the periodic rhythm of FT3 is due to the proportion of T3 derived from the thyroid. Optimizing thyroid hormone replacement may need to take these rhythms into account.
 
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ReSTART

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I’ll be watching this thread, I’ve been taking NDT shortly after I wake up.
 

Dobbler

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I think taking thyroid with last meal is good. Putting clock alarm to wake you up early morning and taking a stimulant with low blood sugar can make it hard to fall back asleep. Also thyroid is a lipophilic hormone that requires fat to absorb and move around so empty stomach will hinder its absorption.
 

Drareg

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This is interesting, didn’t Peat mention a little T3 with some food before bed would put him back to sleep.
Anybody try this method regularly?
 

Diokine

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@Dobbler

This is a good point, it may be better to take with food. The evidence I've seen shows that lower gastric pH (more acidic) increases absorption, and there has been association with dairy products and calcium with lower absorption.

It may be good to find strategies to optimize absorption rates so that levels coincide with maximal pituitary activity, which looks to be around 3AM.
 

yerrag

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This reasoning kinda assumes that the peak of TSH is the main determinant of the timing of T3 intake. It does not consider that there is a demand-based system in play where the liver would convert T4 into T3 when it senses that T3 is going to run low because T3 is being used up after a meal, where there's a sudden influx of glucose that requires a lot to be absorbed by the tissues and to be metabolized.

So when the liver at this time isn't able to get sufficient energy from sub-optimal glucose metabolism, it would not be able to produce T3 from T4 sufficiently to keep energy metabolism at optimal levels. This would cause a deficit of T3 that would impede the chain of reaction of conversion of sugar to energy. Sugar would not be metabolized quickly enough, and the absorption of sugar of blood would be backed up. This would lead to an increase in blood sugar levels. This would be a source of blood sugar dysregulation.

So I'm not entirely sold on needing to supplement T3 only at night, based on this reasoning.

p.s. Since the half-life of T3 is one day, it may still make sense to front-load the T3 at night for the next day rather than dose the T3 during the day.

I'll give the before bed treatment a spin. Currently just taking a drop of Tyrone (8mcg) after each meal. Seems to be working energy-level wise. I'll do a 5hr OGTT after a week on this and then do a week of T3 before bed, and do another OGTT test and see what result I'll get. This isn't an apple-to-apple comparison though, as the improvement in my thyroid may already have taken effect after the first week of t3 supplementation, such that the improved condition would have carried on to the next. Given that thyroid supplementation isn't meant to be for maintenance, but for therapeutic purposes (unless one has thyroid removed or have a poor liver), as the supplementation somehow jumpstarts the T3 production back to a homeostatic level.
 
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Elize

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Paul's method works for those without adrenal and low cortisol issues. Best for each person to find out what is best for their their own body according to chronotherapy.
 

drk

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Does he talk about dosing? what would a typical range be?
 

FitnessMike

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I took last night 2 drops of tyromix when i woke up 2nd time at 2:50 am, after some time i felt surge in cortisol, i will continue doing it.
 

FitnessMike

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If you're having issues with thyroid supplementation, part of the issue may be the time you are taking your supplements. Supplementing with thyroid hormone outside of physiological windows can cause issues with circadian timing in the pituitary. It is important to work in concert with the bodies natural systems for the greatest therapeutic effect. In this context, NDT, T4, and especially T3 may be better utilized if taken in the evening before bed.

I have place a linked to Paul Robinson's website (writer of the circadian T3 method) below, as well as a link to study he mentions in the article.

Why The Circadian T3 Method is So Important to Thyroid Patients – Text Version




Free Triiodothyronine Has a Distinct Circadian Rhythm That Is Delayed but Parallels Thyrotropin Levels

Have you had a positive outcome with taking thyroid before bed yourself?
 

Kozak

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I take single dose T3 at 2am. If Take it before sleep I wake up at 4-5am not rested after sleep.
 

Kozak

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This reasoning kinda assumes that the peak of TSH is the main determinant of the timing of T3 intake. It does not consider that there is a demand-based system in play where the liver would convert T4 into T3 when it senses that T3 is going to run low because T3 is being used up after a meal, where there's a sudden influx of glucose that requires a lot to be absorbed by the tissues and to be metabolized.

So when the liver at this time isn't able to get sufficient energy from sub-optimal glucose metabolism, it would not be able to produce T3 from T4 sufficiently to keep energy metabolism at optimal levels. This would cause a deficit of T3 that would impede the chain of reaction of conversion of sugar to energy. Sugar would not be metabolized quickly enough, and the absorption of sugar of blood would be backed up. This would lead to an increase in blood sugar levels. This would be a source of blood sugar dysregulation.

So I'm not entirely sold on needing to supplement T3 only at night, based on this reasoning.

p.s. Since the half-life of T3 is one day, it may still make sense to front-load the T3 at night for the next day rather than dose the T3 during the day.

I'll give the before bed treatment a spin. Currently just taking a drop of Tyrone (8mcg) after each meal. Seems to be working energy-level wise. I'll do a 5hr OGTT after a week on this and then do a week of T3 before bed, and do another OGTT test and see what result I'll get. This isn't an apple-to-apple comparison though, as the improvement in my thyroid may already have taken effect after the first week of t3 supplementation, such that the improved condition would have carried on to the next. Given that thyroid supplementation isn't meant to be for maintenance, but for therapeutic purposes (unless one has thyroid removed or have a poor liver), as the supplementation somehow jumpstarts the T3 production back to a homeostatic level.
Why do you think there is an increased demand for T3 after a meal?
 

yerrag

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Why do you think there is an increased demand for T3 after a meal?
My take is that with the high influx, or flash flood of glucose into the blood, the tissues will need to absorb and process and metabolize the glucose at a rapid clip. And T3 is needed.
 

Kozak

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My take is that with the high influx, or flash flood of glucose into the blood, the tissues will need to absorb and process and metabolize the glucose at a rapid clip. And T3 is needed.
I see your logic but I think you overestimate the amount of T3 required to digest and metabolize food. After all if it was that demanding we would not survive as a species and you would be able to see T3 peaks/troughs associated with food in the charts above.
 

yerrag

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I see your logic but I think you overestimate the amount of T3 required to digest and metabolize food. After all if it was that demanding we would not survive as a species and you would be able to see T3 peaks/troughs associated with food in the charts above.
Well, I would take a drop of Tyronene after a meal and it would get me from falling into a low energy state. It tells me I just need a little to keep energy production going after a meal. The peak and lows mean less than having the T3 available when it's needed. You may have a higher peak but does that assure you there's enough when it's needed?
 

Hans

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I've been experimenting with some TyroMix before bed. Just 2 drops. It speeds up sleep onset and deepens my sleep quite noticeably. I haven't had a stress reaction from it once and that's most likely because I take it with 500ml of milk and 2 tbsp maple syrup and 2 kiwi before bed.

For those that get a stress reaction in the middle of the night, try 1-2 cups milk with 1-2 tbsp honey/maple syrup with 500mg aspirin. It stops the stress response right in its tracks.
 

FitnessMike

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I've been experimenting with some TyroMix before bed. Just 2 drops. It speeds up sleep onset and deepens my sleep quite noticeably. I haven't had a stress reaction from it once and that's most likely because I take it with 500ml of milk and 2 tbsp maple syrup and 2 kiwi before bed.

For those that get a stress reaction in the middle of the night, try 1-2 cups milk with 1-2 tbsp honey/maple syrup with 500mg aspirin. It stops the stress response right in its tracks.
Can you think of any way to keep t3 high thru the night? maybe taking NDT would create a lower t3 peak but it would be absorbed slower and keep t3 up for longer?
 

yerrag

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I've been experimenting with some TyroMix before bed. Just 2 drops. It speeds up sleep onset and deepens my sleep quite noticeably. I haven't had a stress reaction from it once and that's most likely because I take it with 500ml of milk and 2 tbsp maple syrup and 2 kiwi before bed.

For those that get a stress reaction in the middle of the night, try 1-2 cups milk with 1-2 tbsp honey/maple syrup with 500mg aspirin. It stops the stress response right in its tracks.
Thanks Hans. Is the aspirin for reducing inflammation, or is there another reason?

And why do you use Tyromix and not Tyronene?
 

Hans

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Can you think of any way to keep t3 high thru the night? maybe taking NDT would create a lower t3 peak but it would be absorbed slower and keep t3 up for longer?
Taking NDT with a fatty meal should probably work well for that purpose. Plus, stress hormones are low during the first part of the night, so T4 to T3 conversion will be good.
 

Hans

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Thanks Hans. Is the aspirin for reducing inflammation, or is there another reason?

And why do you use Tyromix and not Tyronene?
I just feel that it stops the stress reaction if carbs aren't able to do it, so it's most likely cortisol and adrenaline-related. I should add that I haven't had a stress reaction in a long time though, but when I did, aspirin worked great. But also, don't take it without carbs.
I use TyroMix because I don't have Tyronene, but if I did, I would probably have experimented between the two.
 
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