• Due to excessive bot signups along with nefarious actors we are limiting forum registration. Keep checking back for the register link to appear. Please do not send emails or have someone post to the forum asking for a signup link. Until the current climate changes we do not see a change of this policy. To join the forum you must have a compelling reason. Letting us know what skills/knowledge you will bring to the community along with the intent of your stay here will help in getting you approved.

Cinnamon Lowers Serum T3?

Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State

Has anyone come across this study before? I don't have access to the full study but it would appear cinnamon lowers circulating levels of T3. Based on the keywords, I believe Ceylon cinnamon was used. The human equivalent dose, about 65mg per kg, is pretty high considering that it was an extract that was tested. Still, it might be prudent to use cinnamon sparingly given that it also contains the blood thinner coumarin and is known to affect blood sugar and cholesterol levels.

Any thoughts?
 

PaRa

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
356
there is not a lot of details i find
plus it's only serum and cardiac ventricles, what about all the body ?
lowered serum T3 could be bc of higher T3 uptake in other cells...
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Right, I had considered that the lower levels might be due to higher cellular uptake. Who knows though. I am concerned because I've been using quite a bit of Ceylon cinnamon almost daily for over a decade. The flavor of Ceylon cinnamon is pretty weak so I use a lot to make up for it. Maybe I'll switch to Saigon cinnamon since it tastes better and just cut way back on my intake.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,009
Right, I had considered that the lower levels might be due to higher cellular uptake. Who knows though. I am concerned because I've been using quite a bit of Ceylon cinnamon almost daily for over a decade. The flavor of Ceylon cinnamon is pretty weak so I use a lot to make up for it. Maybe I'll switch to Saigon cinnamon since it tastes better and just cut way back on my intake.
saigon is the costco stuff right? its not organic didnt it test much higher for levels of heavy metals or toxins or something i remembr there was some test and ceylon cinnamon tested the lowest... maybe it was coumarin
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Saigon cinnamon is a variety of cassia cinnamon from Vietnam. It's also the highest in coumarin so it's best used sparingly. It has much more flavor than Ceylon cinnamon which is kinda dull but has very little coumarin. I'm not sure what cinnamon Costco sells but I bet it's some kind of cassia.

I've given the results of the study some more thought and I think Ceylon cinnamon does in fact have a negative effect on thyroid functioning, especially considering that cinnamon somehow blocks T3 signaling in certain organs. The amount used in the study is close to the amount that people take for blood sugar management so using just a dash or two a day should be fine.
 

Lejeboca

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
978
I've given the results of the study some more thought and I think Ceylon cinnamon does in fact have a negative effect on thyroid functioning, especially considering that cinnamon somehow blocks T3 signaling in certain organs. The amount used in the study is close to the amount that people take for blood sugar management so using just a dash or two a day should be fine.

The results show that all the indicators that the authors could attribute to possible hypothyrosim are absent: the body mass for "cinnamon-extract" (CE) rats is lower, cholesterol is not increased, TRH and TSH are not increased either (indicating the lack of upregulating the pituarory). The liver function seems to be good to w.r.t. T4->T3. And "more studies are required for effects on the heart". (cf. a copy of the Results section below.)

Therefore, I think they didn't show anything negative vz thyroid and only positive vz hepatic gluconeogenesis decrease (lowered mGPDH enzyme activity). Furthermore, I think the problem with their study is that the authors consider only serum T3 whereas, to quote Dr. Peat, "When laboratories measure the hormones in the serum only, they have already thrown out about 95% of the thyroid hormone that the blood contained" [Ref] and much of the thyroid hormone is bound to albumin (which the authors do not consider).

N.B. For the sake of cross-referencing, this article is written by the same author (sub)group as the one discussed in
Thermogenesis and thyroid function in rats with fish oil? , which also seems to me biased in terms of types of experiments performed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this study, the cinnamon extract supplementation in healthy
rats promoted a lower body mass gain (8.250 ± 4.049 g) com-
pared with control group (28.17 ± 3.83 g) (70%, P = 0.0086). To
evaluate whether treatment with cinnamon has any influence on
thyroid function, serum T3, T4 and TSH levels were measured
(Fig. 1). The serum total T3 level was lower in the cinnamon water
extract group compared with that in the control group (32%,
P = 0.0438) (Fig. 1a). However, the serum total T4 and TSH con-
centrations were not altered by cinnamon supplementation com-
pared with those in the control group (Fig. 1b and c, respectively).
The serum total cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol
(HDL), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL) and triglycerides
(TGs) were similar between the cinnamon-treated and control rats
(data not shown).
As depicted in Table 1, the cinnamon-treated rats did not show
significant changes in the mass of the thyroid or cardiac ventricle
compared with the control rats.
mRNA expression of TSHβ subunit (Fig. 2a), TRβ (Fig. 2b) and D2
(Fig. 2c) in the pituitary glands of the cinnamon-treated rats did
not significantly differ from that in the control rats.
mRNA expression of TRβ was lower in the livers of the ani-
mals that received the cinnamon water extract (58.6%, P = 0.0129)
compared with that in the livers of the control animals (Fig. 3a).
However, the protein expression of this isoform remained simi-
lar between the groups (Fig. 3b). As shown in Fig. 3c, the rats
treated with cinnamon extract did not exhibit altered expres-
sion of hepatic mGPDH mRNA compared with that in the con-
trol rats. However, mGPDH activity was significantly lower in the
cinnamon-treated rats with compared with the control rats (51.3%,
P = 0.0190) (Fig. 3d). In addition, as illustrated in Fig. 3e, the hep-
atic D1 mRNA level was similar between the cinnamon-treated and
control rats.
mRNA expression of TRα in the cardiac ventricles was lower in
the cinnamon-treated group compared with that in the control
group, as shown in Fig. 4a (83.2%, P < 0.0001). In addition, the
protein expression of TRα1 was reduced in the cinnamon-treated
group compared with that in the control group (Fig. 4b) (67.5%,
P = 0.0083). mRNA expression of SERCA2a and RyR2 was lower
(65.3%, P = 0.0138 and 25%, P = 0.0016, respectively) (Fig. 4c and
e) and the mRNA expression of phospholamban was higher (107%,
P = 0.0270) (Fig. 4d) in the cardiac ventricles of the animals supple-
mented with cinnamon extract compared with control group.
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Thank you for taking the time to review the full study, Lejeboca. So, cinnamon's inhibitory effect on mitochondrial GPDH activity is beneficial? Can we say the same for its effect on T3 signaling in the cardiac ventricles? I know excess T3 can cause fibrillations but isn't that limited to the atrium? I'm wondering where the T3 is going if cinnamon doesn't decrease the conversion of T4 to T3. Perhaps it's attaching to receptors in myocytes and adipocytes or other organs? According to the study below, cinnamon is thermogenic via mitochondrial uncoupling. That might explain the lower weight gain in the study by Gaique, et al.

 

Lejeboca

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
978
Thank you for taking the time to review the full study, Lejeboca. So, cinnamon's inhibitory effect on mitochondrial GPDH activity is beneficial? Can we say the same for its effect on T3 signaling in the cardiac ventricles? I know excess T3 can cause fibrillations but isn't that limited to the atrium? I'm wondering where the T3 is going if cinnamon doesn't decrease the conversion of T4 to T3. Perhaps it's attaching to receptors in myocytes and adipocytes or other organs?

Yeah, the lower body weight and mGPDH activity from cinnamon seem to be independent of thyroid levels in serum.
The "not-in-serum" blood T3 is probably in other components of the blood, such as red blood cells, as Dr. Peat suggests.

I'd venture to say that there is no harm from lower serum T3 to the heart since to quote the paper (p. 2891) "the cinnamon-treated rats did not show significant changes in the mass of the thyroid or cardiac ventricle compared with the control rats.".



Just skimmed the paper: Cannot judge how good are their methods. But from results (p. 8):
"...CE treatment significantly induced the expression of lipolysis protein pHSL in BAT [brown adipose tissue]."
Inducing lipolysis is not good, in general, even as a method of uncoupling, more so if the adipose tissue has lots of PUFA as it typically does with age.

Reading up on BAT from this forum is that it is not as good as the main-stream thinks of BAT compared with WAT. It sorts of "masks" hyporthyrodism. See
Thyroid Status Inversely Related To Brown Fat Activity

Fat Loss Through Topical Thyroid Or Thyroid Injections?

Based on the results of this paper, I wouldn't be taking cinnamon long-term. Only as a short-term remedy to dispel a cold-stagnation body state or for occasional recipes that call for this herb.
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Thank you for your response. I've never noticed a thermogenic effect from cinnamon but that could be due to consuming it almost daily for so long. I'm definitely going to cut back to just a dash of it. I'll probably switch to Saigon cinnamon as just a dash of Ceylon cinnamon isn't really perceptible taste-wise. It's weak stuff, unless you get a brand that's been adulterated with cassia.

I had never before heard of any downsides to brown fat or at least to attempts at increasing it. I suppose it makes sense given that it is most typically increased by cold exposure which is a major stressor. The inverse relationship between BAT and thyroid function is really interesting though, especially since T3 induces BAT thermogenesis. Maybe an increase in BAT and its activity in such an instance is the body's way of preventing hypothermia during hypothyroidism.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,009
Thank you for your response. I've never noticed a thermogenic effect from cinnamon but that could be due to consuming it almost daily for so long. I'm definitely going to cut back to just a dash of it. I'll probably switch to Saigon cinnamon as just a dash of Ceylon cinnamon isn't really perceptible taste-wise. It's weak stuff, unless you get a brand that's been adulterated with cassia.

I had never before heard of any downsides to brown fat or at least to attempts at increasing it. I suppose it makes sense given that it is most typically increased by cold exposure which is a major stressor. The inverse relationship between BAT and thyroid function is really interesting though, especially since T3 induces BAT thermogenesis. Maybe an increase in BAT and its activity in such an instance is the body's way of preventing hypothermia during hypothyroidism.
thats an interesting effect. does that mean BAT is what is quickly gained with hypothyroidism, or even high cortisol levels which could be interchangeable with hypothyroidism, and the stuff is quickly melted off as thyroid hormone goes up?
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Everyone has BAT but the amount varies substantially between individuals. According to the study Lejeboca posted, it would appear that BAT is increased during hypothyroidism and decreased when euthyroid. It was only a case study though and the subject was 11 y/o (adolescents have more BAT than adults) so we can't say for certain that it holds true for everyone. I wouldn't worry about the amount of BAT you may or may not have but I would be concerned about your thyroid health.

I think the key thing to take away is that activating BAT is fine but trying to increase it is a bad idea. When it comes to the former, I've never noticed any effect from substances that supposedly activate BAT like coffee, cinnamon, green tea, grains of paradise pepper, cold exposure, etc and I am very familiar with what mitochondrial uncoupling feels like. It's not like BAT is the only tissue capable of thermogenesis or uncoupling its mitochondria. We'd have some real problems if it was. Haidut said it best; the hype surrounding fat browning is created by those trying to sell garbage supplements.
 

Lejeboca

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
978
I think the key thing to take away is that activating BAT is fine but trying to increase it is a bad idea. When it comes to the former, I've never noticed any effect from substances that supposedly activate BAT like coffee, cinnamon, green tea, grains of paradise pepper, cold exposure, etc
Any lipolysis is not good, either for BAT or WAT, but it is close to impossible to avoid it altogether so we are trying to minimize or stop it intermittently with things such as niacinomide, aspirin, vit. E, and, surely, good thyroid function.

I think you haven't noticed any effect on BAT (lipolisys) from those substances because their primary thermogenesis or uncoupling action isthrough proper glucose metabolism, assuming a good thyroid function. I reckon that the glucose metabolism was activated when you did feel uncoupling.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,009
Everyone has BAT but the amount varies substantially between individuals. According to the study Lejeboca posted, it would appear that BAT is increased during hypothyroidism and decreased when euthyroid. It was only a case study though and the subject was 11 y/o (adolescents have more BAT than adults) so we can't say for certain that it holds true for everyone. I wouldn't worry about the amount of BAT you may or may not have but I would be concerned about your thyroid health.

I think the key thing to take away is that activating BAT is fine but trying to increase it is a bad idea. When it comes to the former, I've never noticed any effect from substances that supposedly activate BAT like coffee, cinnamon, green tea, grains of paradise pepper, cold exposure, etc and I am very familiar with what mitochondrial uncoupling feels like. It's not like BAT is the only tissue capable of thermogenesis or uncoupling its mitochondria. We'd have some real problems if it was. Haidut said it best; the hype surrounding fat browning is created by those trying to sell garbage supplements.
i remember years ago reading about cold exposure being beneficial in burning up brown fat and maybe even some tricks to convert white fat to brown fat.
those other things you mentioned are thermogenic substances, id imagine they simply boost up burning of brown fat due to higher temperatures? im not sure you would feel any significant uncoupling effect, how does that feel exactly? saturated fat has an uncoupling effect also right?

I have guessed that the significant fat gain from high cortisol levels or hypothyroidism, just logically it should be easier to get rid of as you speed up the metabolism, compared to fat you gain from actually over eating, an extreme amount of fat or sugar or even pufa especially. like if BAT is something that rises and lowers depending on thyroid status id imagine it can come off quick. i remember there was a case of someone with hyperadrenalism or something, a woman with high cortisol levels put on like 150 pounds in a year... if you gain it quicker it should also come off quicker provided you reverse the cause properly?
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,009
Any lipolysis is not good, either for BAT or WAT, but it is close to impossible to avoid it altogether so we are trying to minimize or stop it intermittently with things such as niacinomide, aspirin, vit. E, and, surely, good thyroid function.

I think you haven't noticed any effect on BAT (lipolisys) from those substances because their primary thermogenesis or uncoupling action isthrough proper glucose metabolism, assuming a good thyroid function. I reckon that the glucose metabolism was activated when you did feel uncoupling.
cant niacinamide and aspirin cause some fat gain especially if youre eating a higher fat diet? generally, i heard the reason the body has fat burning in the first place is because if we relied solely on glucose burning, our skin and internal organs would go to waste just from a high speed run or any significant stress or activity. fat provides something else to burn especially for higher stress states.
aspirin and niacinamide, by lowering lipolysis they do encourage sugar burning that is true. but i feel like they have a catabolic effect for muscles... unless youre like loading yourself full of a bunch of carbs, wouldnt they encourage burning of skin, organs and muscle for glucose? like if at any moment, as soon as your out of glucose to burn, the body will turn to burning up skin, organs and muscles for glucose. whereas in a normal situation if you were out of glucose to burn, you could begin to burn fat. the aspirin/niacinamide kind of force you to rely on more glucose which has some risks?
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Any lipolysis is not good, either for BAT or WAT, but it is close to impossible to avoid it altogether so we are trying to minimize or stop it intermittently with things such as niacinomide, aspirin, vit. E, and, surely, good thyroid function.

I think you haven't noticed any effect on BAT (lipolisys) from those substances because their primary thermogenesis or uncoupling action isthrough proper glucose metabolism, assuming a good thyroid function. I reckon that the glucose metabolism was activated when you did feel uncoupling.
It could also be that I simply don't have very much BAT at all. I find that the only thing that naturally produces a noticeable uncoupling effect is plenty of sugar or starch combined with protein. I don't really worry about lipolysis since it's easy for me to notice when I run out of glucose to burn. I'm met with lack of energy and if I persist without refueling then I get a noticeable stress response. I just don't have enough body fat to rely heavily on lipolysis for energy.

i remember years ago reading about cold exposure being beneficial in burning up brown fat and maybe even some tricks to convert white fat to brown fat.
those other things you mentioned are thermogenic substances, id imagine they simply boost up burning of brown fat due to higher temperatures? im not sure you would feel any significant uncoupling effect, how does that feel exactly? saturated fat has an uncoupling effect also right?

I have guessed that the significant fat gain from high cortisol levels or hypothyroidism, just logically it should be easier to get rid of as you speed up the metabolism, compared to fat you gain from actually over eating, an extreme amount of fat or sugar or even pufa especially. like if BAT is something that rises and lowers depending on thyroid status id imagine it can come off quick. i remember there was a case of someone with hyperadrenalism or something, a woman with high cortisol levels put on like 150 pounds in a year... if you gain it quicker it should also come off quicker provided you reverse the cause properly?

Yeah, cold exposure is said to convert some white fat to brown but I bet the effect is temporary and quickly reversed when you stop taking cold showers, ice baths, or whatever. The things I mentioned are supposed to increase brown fat activity which should be thermogenic but they may be thermogenic in other ways too like coffee or alcohol for example. Yes, saturated fat can promote uncoupling but I think medium chain triglycerides have an even stronger effect. I recall years ago when I tried keto I ended up eating over a half pound of creamed coconut in one sitting, almost 2,000 calories worth. That night I had a hard time sleeping because I was burning up. No other high fat food ever caused that effect, calories being equal.

Uncoupling feels like an intense but pleasant warmth radiating outwards from deep within. I feel it from head to toe, so it isn't just from BAT which is said to be concentrated between the upper shoulder blades. If accomplished naturally, it should be accompanied by an increase in energy levels and if the urge to be active is resisted then sweating will occur as the body wastes energy as heat.

I've heard that fat gain from prolonged, high levels of cortisol is actually difficult to lose as high cortisol creates stubborn fat. I can't say for sure though. Hypothyroidism by itself doesn't necessarily result in fat gain. A good bit of what people do gain is actually water. In fact, Dr. Peat said he needed upwards of 6,000 calories to maintain his weight before he started taking thyroid hormones. However, those who do gain weight from hypothyroidism typically lose it gradually once the thyroid deficiency is corrected.

I wish it were as simple as fat that's gained quickly is also quickly lost. I can assure you that this isn't always the case, especially in those who restricted calories excessively for a prolonged period of time. In such instances, fat is gained at a rapid rate and is stubbornly held onto by the body. Stubborn fat is real b**** to lose even when you're doing everything right. Contrarily, fat gained from forced overfeeding is quickly lost when energy intake is returned to normal. Fat gain and loss is an incredibly complex subject that depends on so many factors like thyroid status, sex hormone levels, leptin, grehlin, stress hormones, diet composition, and more. Energy intake and expenditure are important no doubt but there's certainly more to it than that.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,009
It could also be that I simply don't have very much BAT at all. I find that the only thing that naturally produces a noticeable uncoupling effect is plenty of sugar or starch combined with protein. I don't really worry about lipolysis since it's easy for me to notice when I run out of glucose to burn. I'm met with lack of energy and if I persist without refueling then I get a noticeable stress response. I just don't have enough body fat to rely heavily on lipolysis for energy.



Yeah, cold exposure is said to convert some white fat to brown but I bet the effect is temporary and quickly reversed when you stop taking cold showers, ice baths, or whatever. The things I mentioned are supposed to increase brown fat activity which should be thermogenic but they may be thermogenic in other ways too like coffee or alcohol for example. Yes, saturated fat can promote uncoupling but I think medium chain triglycerides have an even stronger effect. I recall years ago when I tried keto I ended up eating over a half pound of creamed coconut in one sitting, almost 2,000 calories worth. That night I had a hard time sleeping because I was burning up. No other high fat food ever caused that effect, calories being equal.

Uncoupling feels like an intense but pleasant warmth radiating outwards from deep within. I feel it from head to toe, so it isn't just from BAT which is said to be concentrated between the upper shoulder blades. If accomplished naturally, it should be accompanied by an increase in energy levels and if the urge to be active is resisted then sweating will occur as the body wastes energy as heat.

I've heard that fat gain from prolonged, high levels of cortisol is actually difficult to lose as high cortisol creates stubborn fat. I can't say for sure though. Hypothyroidism by itself doesn't necessarily result in fat gain. A good bit of what people do gain is actually water. In fact, Dr. Peat said he needed upwards of 6,000 calories to maintain his weight before he started taking thyroid hormones. However, those who do gain weight from hypothyroidism typically lose it gradually once the thyroid deficiency is corrected.

I wish it were as simple as fat that's gained quickly is also quickly lost. I can assure you that this isn't always the case, especially in those who restricted calories excessively for a prolonged period of time. In such instances, fat is gained at a rapid rate and is stubbornly held onto by the body. Stubborn fat is real b**** to lose even when you're doing everything right. Contrarily, fat gained from forced overfeeding is quickly lost when energy intake is returned to normal. Fat gain and loss is an incredibly complex subject that depends on so many factors like thyroid status, sex hormone levels, leptin, grehlin, stress hormones, diet composition, and more. Energy intake and expenditure are important no doubt but there's certainly more to it than that.

is that you in the profile picture? whats your current bodyfat percentage and why do you say you dont have enough for lipolysis?
i didnt know about cold exposure converting white fat to brown. i thought white fat is considered as toxic whereas brown fat is not. how was your experience on grains of paradise, theres only a couple products on amazon. i did actually use them for some time and they did seem to have a thermogenic effect and cause more warmth and sweating. i stopped them since i heard they could cause liver damage and other issues.

i heard cortisol also burns a lot of fat but the problem is it also converts proteins into sugars and fats. so high cortisol you basically lose muscle and gain fat which is the exact opposite of what you want. it also shrinks up all the organs and glands... when my cortisol is higher my eyes get dryer and shrink significantly... as do several other organs, glands, muscles, and even skin and hair.

fat created through high cortisol or from converting sugars to fat, should be saturated or MUFA, not PUFA right?

i think haidut mentioned theres anti cortisol drugs used to treat obesity. i cant remember if this was on reddit or exactly where but there was a very heavy woman who was using ru486 and she was making extremely quick progress in weight loss. within like one year on it she lost a bunch of weight on her face and body. cortisol has that effect of fattening the face too. i think Peat mentioned some people have a calorie wasting form of hypothyroidism, those people basically look sickly thin even if eating a lot. but I think the modern day hypothyroidism is usually autoimmune based, which comes alongside extreme weight gain, high cortisol etc. iodine deficiency hypothyroidism is very rare according to Peat!

fat gaineed from overfeeding, I guess is easily lost only if its overfeeding of proteins, sugars, saturated/mufa fats right?

what do you think should be done to lower cortisol and increase metabolism? i recently read something where peat said a protein deficiency can also cause inflammation and high cortisol levels because the heart and other organs need a constant supply of essential amino acids and if they dont get it, cortisol rises to breakdown other skeletal muscle for those essential aminos. its interesting since previously i thought it was the low carbs which can cause low cortisol.
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Haha no, it's not me. My username and profile picture are a jest towards those who believe that having fats and carbs together in a meal is a recipe for obesity via the Randle cycle. I am well under 10 percent bodyfat, probably 6 or 7 if I had to guess. When you have low levels of body fat, the amount of lipids that can be liberated for use is diminished.

I'd been using grains of paradise for a while because I prefer the flavor over peppercorns. I didn't learn about their supposed health effects til later. I've never noticed anything from using them other than some subtle spicy flavor in whatever dish I use them in.

Yes, the fats made from sugar are primarily saturated though the process is pretty inefficient.

I had to look up ru486. I always love when drugs are given such catchy names like that. Apparently it's an abortifacient and it blocks progesterone. Definitely sounds like bad news to me.

If you're trying to lower cortisol, ashwagandha works like a charm. It's best used only short term due to potential side effects and withdrawal. Long term, the best way to lower cortisol and boost your metabolism is to live a fulfilling life, eat nutrient-dense food while avoiding PUFAs, don't restrict sugar/carbs, get plenty of rest, get enough sunlight daily, be active but don't overexercise, condition your mind not to fret, and address your thyroid function if need be. Really, the ideal way to manage your hormones and metabolism is through lifestyle rather than supplements or drugs. While they can be beneficial, they rarely solve all one's health problems.
 

Dr. B

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,009
Haha no, it's not me. My username and profile picture are a jest towards those who believe that having fats and carbs together in a meal is a recipe for obesity via the Randle cycle. I am well under 10 percent bodyfat, probably 6 or 7 if I had to guess. When you have low levels of body fat, the amount of lipids that can be liberated for use is diminished.

I'd been using grains of paradise for a while because I prefer the flavor over peppercorns. I didn't learn about their supposed health effects til later. I've never noticed anything from using them other than some subtle spicy flavor in whatever dish I use them in.

Yes, the fats made from sugar are primarily saturated though the process is pretty inefficient.

I had to look up ru486. I always love when drugs are given such catchy names like that. Apparently it's an abortifacient and it blocks progesterone. Definitely sounds like bad news to me.

If you're trying to lower cortisol, ashwagandha works like a charm. It's best used only short term due to potential side effects and withdrawal. Long term, the best way to lower cortisol and boost your metabolism is to live a fulfilling life, eat nutrient-dense food while avoiding PUFAs, don't restrict sugar/carbs, get plenty of rest, get enough sunlight daily, be active but don't overexercise, condition your mind not to fret, and address your thyroid function if need be. Really, the ideal way to manage your hormones and metabolism is through lifestyle rather than supplements or drugs. While they can be beneficial, they rarely solve all one's health problems.
so ashwagandha causes significant weight loss?
it may have been another drug but there was a drug that blocked cortisol. maybe ru486 blocks both cortisol and progesterone? it was some women lost significant weight on it.
what did you do to get that lean, 6 or 7 is pretty crazy lean. are you natural, whats your height and weight at that bf percentage.

i think grains of paradise can have some toxicity... there is also yohimbe/yohimbine but apparently that is pro nitric oxide and has some other side effects apparently its pro cortisol too and thats how it stimulates fat burning.

ashwagandha seems to have some links to autoimmune side effects... also do you prefer ashwagandha regular ground or the KSM 66 i think its an extract form.
what about shilajit? also looking into that. what does it do
 

Randle Cyclist

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
158
Location
The Lone Star State
Ashwagandha can help with weight loss but I don't think the results would be that significant unless you put in the effort to lose weight. There are only two substances that I know of that nearly guarantee weight loss no matter what you do but they both come with significant side effects. Losing weight shouldn't be done at the expense of one's health. Blocking progesterone with ru486 or anything else is a bad idea. Blocking progesterone lowers cortisol because cortisol, like many hormones, is made from progesterone.

I've pretty much always been lean, even when bulking for a prolonged period of time. The highest weight I ever reached was 195lbs at a measured 11 percent body fat at 6' 1". Maybe it's genetic because both sides of my family are skinny. I'm 150lbs now but I'd like to be around 180lbs. The only two times in my life where I ever really gained fat was when I tried keto over 4 years ago and a separate period of extreme stress coupled with prolonged overexertion. Keto caused a horrifyingly fast rebound but I returned to and have maintained my starting weight since then. I do take T3 now but it isn't for weight loss. It doesn't cause weight loss by itself. I started taking it based on some lab results and to resolve cold intolerance, low body temperature, and brain fog. Perhaps it helps me stay lean but I'm no leaner now than I was in my early 20's. What I'm trying to say is that I achieved my level of leanness naturally and I now take T3 for peripheral reasons.

Yeah, I've heard that about grains of paradise. I doubt it's a real risk when you're just using a few twists from a pepper grinder. After all, black pepper isn't good for the liver either but you don't really hear about people having issues from it.

I don't recommend yohimbe unless you're trying to lose that last bit of stubborn fat. It causes extreme anxiety and even panic attacks. Its effect is pretty unique in that it blocks the alpha adrenergic receptors which are most common in stubborn fat. You can still lose stubborn fat without it though.

Shwag is fairly popular for a reason. It works but you just have to look out for side effects. KSM66 is more effective but it's also riskier since it's an extract. I distrust most powders as they come from India which is notorious for heavy metal contamination in their supplements. Oregon Wild Harvest sells an organic shwag powder that is grown in the Pacific Northwest. I've never tried shilajit as I'm not keen on the idea of eating soil/humus. I personally think it's snake oil. I bet it's great for your garden though.
 

SOMO

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
1,094
In my experience, cinnamon is thermogenic, but is a bit hard on digestion due to its low water solubility.
 

Similar threads

Top