Chubby Guy Getting Chubbier

[oldmanthunder]

I know a triathlete who needed some help to drop a few pounds. For him cutting calories wasn’t working, so then we started watching his macros very closely. That didn’t seem to work either. So I turned his attention to the actual weight (density) of the food he was consuming. This is where we found tremendous success for him.

To put it in perspective there are countless marathon runners who gain weight because their diet is not on par. Conversely I can put someone on an ultra clean diet with little to no exercise and they will lose significant amounts of weight.

As a friend of mine very astutely put it, think of exercise as a spoon and dieting as a shovel....if you’ve got a pile of weight to move would you rather use a spoon or shovel?

Could you please provide some more information on nutrient density and its effects on metabolism? What do you mean by "clean" eating?

 

[Travis]

@raypeatclips
I have used raw goat dairy, I have posted about it on the forum in multiple places if you want to check it out. It was significantly better than cow dairy for me, and it helped to clear up some gut issues i had. However, over time the opiate effect, especially with quantity (i.e. drinking aot of milk) was additive. My digestion slowed down a ton, leading to constipation and pebble like stools. My motivation went away, and I gained weight in the stomach and the chest area specifically, as well as got back acne. I attribute the motivation effect, weight gain and constipation to the opiate effects and the acne to the hormones in the milk. I knew about the opiate effects of milk prior to starting milk at all, the reason I chose goat milk was because its mostly A2 so the casomorphins are weaker. Reading @Travis turned me on to the depletion of dopamine and subsequent uptegulation of prolactin and the hormonal profile of milk. Once i stopped drinking milk, I dropped 10lbs in a week (all of it bodyfat and water weight) without going into any type of deficit. The whole calories in, calories out is a waste of time in my opinion, except in extremes. Whats more important is hormonal profile, which is based on immune activation, gut interaction and physiologic effect of foods that you are eating in my opinion.

After a seven month hiatus, I did experiment with ¹⁄₂# of raw goat cheese about a week ago. I have to agree, a person can feel the opioid effects from even that. However: I still feel that it represents a reduced exophin potential, in relation to A1 cow's milk, and that goats have a better fatty acid profile.

Such things are hard to consume periodically due to exorphin withdrawal. For things such as soy, wheat, and dairy, I think a person either has to eat them daily or not at all. I find it simply too unpleasant to stop eating both cheese and wheat once you start, and I'd rather not eat them at all then every day. It would be different if I could eat less cheese every day but since I don't really eat cooked, processed, or even salty food to any significant extent I tend to overeat those when I actually do. I find even olives in a can (in a salt and water solution only) to be very addictive, even to the point where I'd be tempted to eat three or four cans per day if I had a cabinet full. I thought for a bit of eating raw goat cheese once per week but had decided that the exorphin fluctuations would be a but too much to deal with.

 

[raypeatclips]

After a seven month hiatus, I did experiment with ¹⁄₂# of raw goat cheese about a week ago. I have to agree, a person can feel the opioid effects from even that. However: I still feel that it represents a reduced exophin potential, in relation to A1 cow's milk, and that goats have a better fatty acid profile.

Such things are hard to consume periodically due to exorphin withdrawal. For things such as soy, wheat, and dairy, I think a person either has to eat them daily or not at all. I find it simply too unpleasant to stop eating both cheese and wheat once you start, and I'd rather not eat them at all then every day. It would be different if I could eat less cheese every day but since I don't really eat cooked, processed, or even salty food to any significant extent I tend to overeat those when I actually do. I find even olives in a can (in a salt and water solution only) to be very addictive, even to the point where I'd be tempted to eat three or four cans per day if I had a cabinet full. I thought for a bit of eating raw goat cheese once per week but had decided that the exorphin fluctuations would be a but too much to deal with.

How come you decided on eating that amount of cheese, that seems quite a lot, I don't think I could eat that much goats cheese in one sitting. Why not eat a lower amount of goat cheese per day alongside coffee?

 

[Amazoniac]

After a seven month hiatus, I did experiment with ¹⁄₂# of raw goat cheese about a week ago. I have to agree, a person can feel the opioid effects from even that. However: I still feel that it represents a reduced exophin potential, in relation to A1 cow's milk, and that goats have a better fatty acid profile.

Such things are hard to consume periodically due to exorphin withdrawal. For things such as soy, wheat, and dairy, I think a person either has to eat them daily or not at all. I find it simply too unpleasant to stop eating both cheese and wheat once you start, and I'd rather not eat them at all then every day. It would be different if I could eat less cheese every day but since I don't really eat cooked, processed, or even salty food to any significant extent I tend to overeat those when I actually do. I find even olives in a can (in a salt and water solution only) to be very addictive, even to the point where I'd be tempted to eat three or four cans per day if I had a cabinet full. I thought for a bit of eating raw goat cheese once per week but had decided that the exorphin fluctuations would be a but too much to deal with.

Guru, it seems to be a matter of weighing the pros and cons, right? Tarmander commented once that you need a slight state of restlessness to move forward. When you eat those unusually-palatable foods they can shut down a state of Travisteria gravis, in which the person has no cloggages on any microtubule, almost too alert to the point of not being able of walking on Times Square without feeling overwhelmed and exhausted. I feel like the sedating effect can be desirable for some, I can be wrong though. We can call it the bright side of dementia.

 

[Travis]

How come you decided on eating that amount of cheese, that seems quite a lot, I don't think I could eat that much goats cheese in one sitting. Why not eat a lower amount of goat cheese per day alongside coffee?

I have a quick metabolism and often eat 3000·Cal per day without gaining weight. That much cheese doesn't really seem excessive.

If you eat just one food alone, without mixing, I think you'd find that you can eat what'd often be considered and 'unusual amount.' Take eggs for instance: the last few times I'd eaten eggs, I had 8–10 of them at once. This might seem excessive, yet it is only about 750·Cal.

I have gotten in the habit of eating just one food on it's own, and raw. This saves a considerable about of time usually spent preparing food, cooking, and cleaning up the mess. Less time spent doing those translates to more time doing something else. I could've grated the cheese on 1·lb of spinach leaves, but I probably would've ended-up eating the same amount of cheese by the end of the day. Cheese is an unnatural and salty food with bioactive peptides, and it can influence eating habits accordingly.

 

[Travis]

We can call it the bright side of dementia.

That's funny. I think we should look into how dopamine effects nerve transmission potential, and how opiates effect dopamine. In all line tracings that I'd looked at, opiates always reduce nerve potential—the line tracing amplitude. But I can see how they could be useful for painters, poets, and people raising children; exorphins seem that they'd be conducive to such circumstances. But after reading a Karl Popper article, I am trying to stick with that non-compromising type of German logic most of the time—a head-space which which opiates of any kind seem to oppose.

 

[SolRosenberg]

Could you please provide some more information on nutrient density and its effects on metabolism? What do you mean by "clean" eating?

By density, I’m indicating how much each food weighs. The effect of any given food on metabolism can be varied. Clean eating is the term I use for sticking to a formulated diet plan.

 

[Mossy]

Let's say one doesn't get the negative effects from milk (i.e. opiate, immunogenic, and whatever else), consistent to the high-fat benefit theory, shouldn't full-fat raw milk contribute to this benefit? I'm probably missing the obvious and will go back through, but my thought is if butter is good fat, couldn't milk be also?

 

[Regina]

Guru, it seems to be a matter of weighing the pros and cons, right? Tarmander commented once that you need a slight state of restlessness to move forward. When you eat those unusually-palatable foods they can shut down a state of Travisteria gravis, in which the person has no cloggages on any microtubule, almost too alert to the point of not being able of walking on Times Square without feeling overwhelmed and exhausted. I feel like the sedating effect can be desirable for some, I can be wrong though. We can call it the bright side of dementia.

You are such a peach.

 

[ilikecats]

After a seven month hiatus, I did experiment with ¹⁄₂# of raw goat cheese about a week ago. I have to agree, a person can feel the opioid effects from even that. However: I still feel that it represents a reduced exophin potential, in relation to A1 cow's milk, and that goats have a better fatty acid profile.

Such things are hard to consume periodically due to exorphin withdrawal. For things such as soy, wheat, and dairy, I think a person either has to eat them daily or not at all. I find it simply too unpleasant to stop eating both cheese and wheat once you start, and I'd rather not eat them at all then every day. It would be different if I could eat less cheese every day but since I don't really eat cooked, processed, or even salty food to any significant extent I tend to overeat those when I actually do. I find even olives in a can (in a salt and water solution only) to be very addictive, even to the point where I'd be tempted to eat three or four cans per day if I had a cabinet full. I thought for a bit of eating raw goat cheese once per week but had decided that the exorphin fluctuations would be a but too much to deal with.

Have you ever even taken opiates? I used to do a lot of opiates when I was younger... lol drinking milk feels nothing like opiates at all. And how do you know the feelings you get of sleepiness and relaxation from it aren't due to the progesterone content or just from the fact that it's a great anti stress food due to it's substantial nutritional profile? I don't think Ray would recommend milk if it had significant effects on the opioid system, Ray has a very negative view of opiates. Also opiates are notorious for raising prolactin. Ray views keeping prolactin low as essential for achieving good health and he himself maintains a very low prolactin level while drinking a gallon of milk a day. This is more anecdotal evidence but I heard that Danny Roddy got his prolactin down to 1 ng/ml at one point and like ray he drinks a gallon of milk a day. And as a side note I think I remember reading that your favorite substance nicotine has effects on the opioid system. Its funny I actually tried nicotine for the first time like a year after quitting opioids and I felt there were definitely some opioid-esque effects to the buzz

 

[Travis]

Have you ever even taken opiates? I used to do a lot of opiates when I was younger... lol drinking milk feels nothing like opiates at all.

Who hasn't? I've taken hydrocodone before, been injected with morphine (clinical setting), and have even smoked opium in the past (once).

...lol drinking milk feels nothing like opiates at all. And how do you know the feelings you get of sleepiness and relaxation―

For one, I have never used those terms to describe it. And moreover, I haven't drank milk in ten years; all the dairy I'd ingested in recent history had been in the form of cheese. You are just . . . [how do you Americans say?] . . . 'putting words in my mouth,' so-to-speak.

...from it aren't due to the progesterone content or just from the fact that it's a great anti stress food due to it's substantial nutritional profile?

Because casein releases β-casomorphin which has been (1) found to be cleaved by enteral enzymes and subsequently absorbed, (2) been found in the cerebospinal fluid, and (3) has been proven to bind to the μ-opioid receptor in countless assays. Let me list just a few of them:

➝ Svedberg, J. "Demonstration of β-casomorphin [...] in in vitro digests of bovine milk and in small intestine contents after bovine milk ingestion in adult humans." Peptides (1985)
➝ Brantl, V. "Novel opioid peptides derived from casein (β-casomorphins). I. Isolation from bovine casein peptone." Hoppe-Seyler s Zeitschrift für physiologische Chemie (1979)
➝ Brantl, V. "Antinociceptive potencies of β-casomorphin analogs as compared to their affinities towards μ and δ opiate receptor sites in brain and periphery." Peptides (1982)
➝ Zoghbi, S. "β-Casomorphin-7 regulates the secretion and expression of gastrointestinal mucins through a μ-opioid pathway." American Journal of Physiology [...] (2006)
➝ Pihlanto-Leppälä, A. "Bioactive peptides derived from bovine whey proteins: opioid and ace-inhibitory peptides." Trends in Food Science & Technology (2000)
➝ Sakaguchi, M. "Effects of systemic administration of β-casomorphin-5 on learning and memory in mice." European journal of pharmacology (2006)
➝ Sun, Z. "β-Casomorphin induces Fos-like immunoreactivity in discrete brain regions relevant to schizophrenia and autism." Autism (1999)
➝ Sokolov, O. "Autistic children display elevated urine levels of bovine casomorphin-7 immunoreactivity." Peptides (2014)
➝ Daniel, H. "Effect of casein and β-casomorphins on gastrointestinal motility in rats." The Journal of nutrition (1990)
➝ Koch, G. "Opioid activities of human β-casomorphins." Naunyn-Schmiedeberg's archives of pharmacology (1985)
➝ Sun, Z. "A peptide found in schizophrenia and autism causes behavioral changes in rats." Autism (1999)
​

Now what is this 'anti-stress chemical' you speak of? Could you be any more specific?

I don't think Ray would recommend milk if it had significant effects on the opioid system, Ray has a very negative view of opiates. Also opiates are notorious for raising prolactin.

But it does have significant effects on the opioid system, and Ray does recommend it.

And as a side note I think I remember reading that your favorite substance nicotine has effects on the opioid system.

No you didn't; you're just making that up. Nicotine works directly on the acetylcholine receptor as an agonist; if anything: it strongly opposes the effects of opiates, which lower dopamine and nerve amplitude (likewise shown in countless studies).

 

[YourUniverse]

All I know is, since following travis's advice on switching from cows milk to goats milk, my symptoms of prolactin excess have completely disappeared and I have way more energy - maybe some people are more susceptible to the opiates in foods than others?

 

[ilikecats]

@Travis Alright my bad about getting the details of your experience wrong I was going off of what I thought I remembered you writing in the past, not just that one post. And “anti stress chemical”? I said that I think milk has an anti stress effect do to its protein and glucose content maybe the calcium content. And also probably from the progesterone content. Before I increased my thyroid hormone levels many anti stress substances would leAve me feeling tired and unmotivated because I had been relying on adrenaline for energy. I cant remember what you said exactly about dairy but I thought you said It made you feel unmotivated. And I said “I think I remember” within regards to nicotine and the opioid system do you think I just made that up to say something bad about nicotine? And There’s this here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24882143/
“. The opioid-receptor antagonist naloxone (NLX) elicits NIC withdrawal after repeated NIC administration“

Now am I interpreting parts of that study wrong? Probably. Do I understand everything they’re talking about? Hell no. But why would an opiod antagonist cause nicotine withdrawal?