Chronic health problem (Dehydration) - Faint hope somebody here might have some ideas

Korven

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May 4, 2019
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387
Thank you.

I will order some NDT now. Also will look for some pregnenolone. The question is, do I even have low adrenals. My DHEA is high, out of range high on every blood test. My morning Cortisol is normal/high. Waiting on more tests on this and my Aldosterone we don't know yet but have bloods on Aldosterone & Renin next week. Would Pregnenoloe/Progesterone still be a good idea of my adrenals are in fact hyper, rather than hypo?

Gut issues was my next port of call. Considering getting some of the tests listed here Test Kits such as the organic acids or stool test. Or is there a better option? I'm in the UK.

Yeah I would say it's still worth experimenting with. Elevated DHEA is likely to help oppose high cortisol (from stress).

Progesterone especially is profoundly soothing and anti-stress, it can be very therapeutic to break a vicious stress/inflammatory cycle. Here's a source of Progest-E in the UK Progest E | 34ml - Kenogen . It's Ray Peat approved because he patented the formula himself lol.

Ideally you would want to identify the underlying issues of what is causing your adrenals to pump out cortisol/DHEA. Could be SIBO, gut dysbiosis, increased intestinal permeability. Could be hypothyroidism. Or both. I don't know much about those tests, lactulose breath test is typically used to test for SIBO.

Quotes from Ray:

"Increasingly, in both sexes, it appears that DHEA may rise during stress as a result of a deficiency of thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone."

"In experiments, progesterone was found to be the basic hormone of adaptation and of resistance to stress. The adrenal glands use it to produce their anti-stress hormones, and when there is enough progesterone, they don't have to produce the potentially harmful cortisone. In a progesterone deficiency, we produce too much cortisone, and excessive cortisone causes osteoporosis, aging of the skin, damage to brain cells, and the accumulation of fat, especially on the back and abdomen."

"In a healthy young person or animal, taking even a large dose of pregnenolone has no hormone-like or drug-like action at all. It is unique in this way. But if the animal or person is under stress, and producing more cortisone than usual, taking pregnenolone causes the cortisone to come down to the normal level."
 

LLight

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May 30, 2018
Messages
749
I don't know if that could be part of your problem but:
- the metabolite of cholesterol 22R-Hydroxycholesterol - Wikipedia is produced with help of the enzyme CYP11A1 (the one which is lowered in testes of rats when they are vitamin K deficient, also called P450scc in this article),
- 22R-hydroxycholesterol could be an FXR agonist (Oxysterol 22(R)-Hydroxycholesterol Induces the Expression of the Bile Salt Export Pump through Nuclear Receptor Farsenoid X Receptor but Not Liver X Receptor),
- the FXR, in the kidneys, is involved with water homeostasis (Farnesoid X receptor (FXR) gene deficiency impairs urine concentration in mice).

Very theoretical (e.g. the last two publications are not in the same organs, liver and kidneys) but I find this is interesting.
By the way, Ray Peat supplement with K2.
 

Callmestar

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Todays Cronometer. Interesting the posts here about Vit K. Appears to be the main vitamin my current diet is very low in.


2021-05-01 (3).png2021-05-01 (5).png
 

BearWithMe

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It depends on what you class as problems. I'm sure you are going to tell me?
How you can possibly keep fluid homeostasis when you consume 9g of sodium and just 2.5g of potassium, while also causing further potassium wasting by being anxious and permanently in sympathetic nervous system overactivation? This is just impossible. Can not possibly happen.

Also, 1g of folate is insane. Please, please, please tell me it is not in a form of folic acid or methylfolate. This alone might be causing most of your symptoms.

Also, why 1.5g of magnesium??? I'd be dehydrated to death from half of this amount.

At least you are finally consuming reasonable amounts of liquids, I really hope you are not drinking anything on top of that.

I'm going to be harsh again but I have your best intentions in mind.

From all your posts, it is very obvious this is self-inflicted harm. You even openly admitted you want to kill yourself. At some level of consciousnes, you must be aware you are slowly killing yourself by your diet and all the "treatments" you are doing to yourself.

You got so much good advice in this thread, like eating normal, BALANCED diet and supplementing only what's necessary, or facing your mental issues. But you haven't even considered following it. Instead, you are doing st**d s**t like taking corticosteroids, insane doses of b-vitamins, tablespoons of salt and 1.5g of magnesium, while depriving yourself of potassium.

Things that OBVIOUSLY going to make you feel MUCH worse and probably kill you very soon.

Find out why you hate yourself so much. What you did that you think you deserve to die. Forgive yourself. Forgive others. Let go everything that happened in the past. Focus on your bright future. Realize that you are good person worthy of loving. That you deserve good health, long life and happiness.

DM me anytime if you need to talk about anything in private
 

Callmestar

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How you can possibly keep fluid homeostasis when you consume 9g of sodium and just 2.5g of potassium, while also causing further potassium wasting by being anxious and permanently in sympathetic nervous system overactivation? This is just impossible. Can not possibly happen.

Also, 1g of folate is insane. Please, please, please tell me it is not in a form of folic acid or methylfolate. This alone might be causing most of your symptoms.

Also, why 1.5g of magnesium??? I'd be dehydrated to death from half of this amount.

At least you are finally consuming reasonable amounts of liquids, I really hope you are not drinking anything on top of that.

I'm going to be harsh again but I have your best intentions in mind.

From all your posts, it is very obvious this is self-inflicted harm. You even openly admitted you want to kill yourself. At some level of consciousnes, you must be aware you are slowly killing yourself by your diet and all the "treatments" you are doing to yourself.

You got so much good advice in this thread, like eating normal, BALANCED diet and supplementing only what's necessary, or facing your mental issues. But you haven't even considered following it. Instead, you are doing st**d s**t like taking corticosteroids, insane doses of b-vitamins, tablespoons of salt and 1.5g of magnesium, while depriving yourself of potassium.

Things that OBVIOUSLY going to make you feel MUCH worse and probably kill you very soon.

Find out why you hate yourself so much. What you did that you think you deserve to die. Forgive yourself. Forgive others. Let go everything that happened in the past. Focus on your bright future. Realize that you are good person worthy of loving. That you deserve good health, long life and happiness.

DM me anytime if you need to talk about anything in private

Wow...You talk absolute nonsense and are unbelievably predictable. I made the cronometer post knowing your post would follow soon after attacking it. I've posted here for help, not for you to attempt to have some sort of ego battle to prove yourself right. Literally whatever I post on this thread, if it was every micronutrient and mineral in perfect quantities, you'd find a problem with it. That's obvious at this point.

As if I'm slowly trying to kill myself. Please stop with your attempted psychoanalysis and assumptions about what you believe my subconscious to be doing. It's awfully inaccurate.

I told you I wasn't taking the corticosteroids. The B vitamins were recommended here. You are actually looking for something to attack me over, its sad.

You say I haven't considered following the advice on this thread. I'm eating a diet of beef, organ meats, honey, fruit, orange juice and some dairy. I'm supplementing with thyroid, I've ordered Progesterone and K2, that's EXACTLY what has been advised. Also a lot of the advice was to add salt, so I have. To be honest the Tbsp is actually supposed to be a Tsp on the cronometer and was an estimate, maybe an over estimate but I added some to the beef and some to the eggs in the morning, that's it. The folate, 800ug is in one of the supplements 'glucobalance', recommended by my functional medicine doc. I don't know much about folate so didn't know I was taking too much or if it's a problem. The magnesium, the last blood test I had indicated a slight deficiency in magnesium. I've only started taking it the past 2 days.

Do you genuinely think there's a single person on this site who has the exact balance and perfect cronometer? There's always going to be something too high or too low. My sodium, magnesium and folate is high, and potassium too low. They are the main issues from what you are saying. Based on that do you not think your post claiming I'm subconsciously trying to kill myself is a little over dramatic? Do you think anyone else would have said something along those lines or rather just said my sodium is too high etc etc.

I'm not here for an argument with you but it feels as though your purpose here is to somehow gratify yourself by overly criticising what i'm doing to prove yourself right. P.S. I never said anything you said was wrong in the first place, diet wise.
 
Last edited:

Callmestar

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To add to the above. Admittedly I'm making mistakes along the way but there's certainly no want to harm myself. I'm gradually attempting to get things in balance. I'm struggling to believe there's anyone that has a perfect cronometer and for sure the average man in the street will have things way off the so called ideal daily vitamin and mineral values.
 

BearWithMe

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May 19, 2017
Messages
1,017
Wow...You talk absolute nonsense and are unbelievably predictable. I made the cronometer post knowing your post would follow soon after attacking it. I've posted here for help, not for you to attempt to have some sort of ego battle to prove yourself right. Literally whatever I post on this thread, if it was every micronutrient and mineral in perfect quantities, you'd find a problem with it. That's obvious at this point.

As if I'm slowly trying to kill myself. Please stop with your attempted psychoanalysis and assumptions about what you believe my subconscious to be doing. It's awfully inaccurate.

I told you I wasn't taking the corticosteroids. The B vitamins were recommended here. You are actually looking for something to attack me over, its sad.

You say I haven't considered following the advice on this thread. I'm eating a diet of beef, organ meats, honey, fruit, orange juice and some dairy. I'm supplementing with thyroid, I've ordered Progesterone and K2, that's EXACTLY what has been advised. Also a lot of the advice was to add salt, so I have. To be honest the Tbsp is actually supposed to be a Tsp on the cronometer and was an estimate, maybe an over estimate but I added some to the beef and some to the eggs in the morning, that's it. The folate, 800ug is in one of the supplements 'glucobalance', recommended by my functional medicine doc. I don't know much about folate so didn't know I was taking too much or if it's a problem. The magnesium, the last blood test I had indicated a slight deficiency in magnesium. I've only started taking it the past 2 days.

Do you genuinely think there's a single person on this site who has the exact balance and perfect cronometer? There's always going to be something too high or too low. My sodium, magnesium and folate is high, and potassium too low. They are the main issues from what you are saying. Based on that do you not think your post claiming I'm subconsciously trying to kill myself is a little over dramatic? Do you think anyone else would have said something along those lines or rather just said my sodium is too high etc etc.

I'm not here for an argument with you but it feels as though your purpose here is to somehow gratify yourself by overly criticising what i'm doing to prove yourself right. P.S. I never said anything you said was wrong in the first place, diet wise.
Just went over all my posts in thread. All I see is genuine attempt to help you, purely logical and verifiable explanation why what you are doing is not working, actionable advice on how to feel better, many words of encouragement and zero judgement or criticism.

The fact that you perceive this as a personal attack makes me really sad.
 

Callmestar

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Just went over all my posts in thread. All I see is genuine attempt to help you, purely logical and verifiable explanation why what you are doing is not working, actionable advice on how to feel better, many words of encouragement and zero judgement or criticism.

The fact that you perceive this as a personal attack makes me really sad.

I genuinely appreciate your concern and the dietary / health advice. It's the assumptions about my mental state and my subconscious that I don't agree with. Such as me wanting to slowly kill myself. I don't believe that to be true at all.
 

BearWithMe

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I have spent so much time typing responses for you. I wished you luck so many times. I have even invited to personal chat to help you. This is really messed up
 

Callmestar

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I have spent so much time typing responses for you. I wished you luck so many times. I have even invited to personal chat to help you. This is really messed up

I know, and again I do appreciate your help and your time. I've sent you a DM.
 

Belsazar

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May 16, 2016
Messages
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Whats the high source of Vitamin A? High intake can be problematic in certain cases (thyroid suppression, bone and calcium issues). If no obvious test/symptoms for deficiency, sticking to the RDA for that micronutrient would be in alignment with peat (if hypothyroid).
 

Callmestar

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Thread starter
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Messages
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Yeah I would say it's still worth experimenting with. Elevated DHEA is likely to help oppose high cortisol (from stress).

Progesterone especially is profoundly soothing and anti-stress, it can be very therapeutic to break a vicious stress/inflammatory cycle. Here's a source of Progest-E in the UK Progest E | 34ml - Kenogen . It's Ray Peat approved because he patented the formula himself lol.

Ideally you would want to identify the underlying issues of what is causing your adrenals to pump out cortisol/DHEA. Could be SIBO, gut dysbiosis, increased intestinal permeability. Could be hypothyroidism. Or both. I don't know much about those tests, lactulose breath test is typically used to test for SIBO.

Quotes from Ray:

"Increasingly, in both sexes, it appears that DHEA may rise during stress as a result of a deficiency of thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone."

"In experiments, progesterone was found to be the basic hormone of adaptation and of resistance to stress. The adrenal glands use it to produce their anti-stress hormones, and when there is enough progesterone, they don't have to produce the potentially harmful cortisone. In a progesterone deficiency, we produce too much cortisone, and excessive cortisone causes osteoporosis, aging of the skin, damage to brain cells, and the accumulation of fat, especially on the back and abdomen."

"In a healthy young person or animal, taking even a large dose of pregnenolone has no hormone-like or drug-like action at all. It is unique in this way. But if the animal or person is under stress, and producing more cortisone than usual, taking pregnenolone causes the cortisone to come down to the normal level."

Thank you. Ordered the Progest E from that link. Awaiting results of 24h saliva cortisol / dhea test and have Aldosterone and Renin bloods test next week. That should give more of an idea on the state of the adrenals which from previous tests already look as though they are overproducing DHEA and Cortisol.

I don't know if that could be part of your problem but:
- the metabolite of cholesterol 22R-Hydroxycholesterol - Wikipedia is produced with help of the enzyme CYP11A1 (the one which is lowered in testes of rats when they are vitamin K deficient, also called P450scc in this article),
- 22R-hydroxycholesterol could be an FXR agonist (Oxysterol 22(R)-Hydroxycholesterol Induces the Expression of the Bile Salt Export Pump through Nuclear Receptor Farsenoid X Receptor but Not Liver X Receptor),
- the FXR, in the kidneys, is involved with water homeostasis (Farnesoid X receptor (FXR) gene deficiency impairs urine concentration in mice).

Very theoretical (e.g. the last two publications are not in the same organs, liver and kidneys) but I find this is interesting.
By the way, Ray Peat supplement with K2.

Very interesting. Thank you. I've ordered some liquid K2.
 

Callmestar

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Whats the high source of Vitamin A? High intake can be problematic in certain cases (thyroid suppression, bone and calcium issues). If no obvious test/symptoms for deficiency, sticking to the RDA for that micronutrient would be in alignment with peat (if hypothyroid).

I'm not actually sure. I checked the supplements, it's not from them. Maybe the Beta Carotene from the watermelon?
 

Belsazar

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I'm not actually sure. I checked the supplements, it's not from them. Maybe the Beta Carotene from the watermelon?
If you click on Vitamin A in your daily report it should give you a list ranking your foods from highest to lowest.
Did you track it correctly? You put in 3 extra large slices which would be 3x 286g - almost a kg of watermelon. It is high in Vitamin A indeed.
But you did not even track the liver blended in the ground beef, right? Then your Vitamin A is even underestimated ...

Out of curiosity I double checked your supplements: The Biotics GlucoBalance (6 capsules) gives you 5000IU already. Did you really take the serving size of 6 capsules? If thats true then it explains the high Vitamin A. 5000IU from supplements + 8000IU from diet. If you would just get it from diet you would still have a +5000IU to the RDA of ~3000IU (depending on eg gender, bodyweight, thyroid function). If you would ask me for my opinion I would say that this might be too high and you should read into adverse effects of Vitamin A. But it also depends on your dietary history of Vitamin A and how long you are taking these supplements.

(maybe as a starter: Vitamin A And Osteomalacia)
 

Callmestar

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If you click on Vitamin A in your daily report it should give you a list ranking your foods from highest to lowest.
Did you track it correctly? You put in 3 extra large slices which would be 3x 286g - almost a kg of watermelon. It is high in Vitamin A indeed.
But you did not even track the liver blended in the ground beef, right? Then your Vitamin A is even underestimated ...

Out of curiosity I double checked your supplements: The Biotics GlucoBalance (6 capsules) gives you 5000IU already. Did you really take the serving size of 6 capsules? If thats true then it explains the high Vitamin A. 5000IU from supplements + 8000IU from diet. If you would just get it from diet you would still have a +5000IU to the RDA of ~3000IU (depending on eg gender, bodyweight, thyroid function). If you would ask me for my opinion I would say that this might be too high and you should read into adverse effects of Vitamin A. But it also depends on your dietary history of Vitamin A and how long you are taking these supplements.

(maybe as a starter: Vitamin A And Osteomalacia)

Yes I had half a Watermelon so that is about right. Wow I didn't notice that on the Glucobalance supplement. That's the one also giving the high folate. I won't be taking that anymore. I've been taking the listed supplements for a month or so based on the advice of a functional medicine doctor. They aren't the cause of my symptoms as this has been going on for about 4 years, but from the advice here they likely aren't helping. It's an absoloute minefeild!
 

charlie

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Yes I had half a Watermelon so that is about right. Wow I didn't notice that on the Glucobalance supplement. That's the one also giving the high folate. I won't be taking that anymore. I've been taking the listed supplements for a month or so based on the advice of a functional medicine doctor. They aren't the cause of my symptoms as this has been going on for about 4 years, but from the advice here they likely aren't helping. It's an absoloute minefeild!
How much sunshine are you getting? Also, what times of the day are you getting it?
 

Callmestar

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How much sunshine are you getting? Also, what times of the day are you getting it?

Limited here in the winter but it is now brightening up as we move into spring-summer. I work inside but I make sure I get some for around 20 minutes at around 11am and then after work at about 4/5pm I go and sit in the sun (if there is any) for an hour or so. That's all that can be practically done in that sense currently. Unless I start using tanning beds.
 
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