Chronic health problem (Dehydration) - Faint hope somebody here might have some ideas

Callmestar

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Starting Fludrocortisone 0.1mg tomorrow for possible low Adrenal/Aldosterone. Hope it will help improve my symptoms in addition to what I am already doing here.

The low Aldosterone is somewhat of a guess and I'm still waiting for bloods on this. My Endocrinologist is happy for me to try the medication based on my symptoms to see if it will give any relief.
 

Vileplume

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Starting Fludrocortisone 0.1mg tomorrow for possible low Adrenal/Aldosterone. Hope it will help improve my symptoms in addition to what I am already doing here.

The low Aldosterone is somewhat of a guess and I'm still waiting for bloods on this. My Endocrinologist is happy for me to try the medication based on my symptoms to see if it will give any relief.
Good for you constantly trying out new things. Something will work. There is a cause to your problems, it’s just a matter of finding it. You will!
 

Callmestar

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First day on Fludrocortisone yesterday, didn't notice any changes in symptoms during the day, although early days so wasn't necessarily expecting to. During the night I woke up after some very unpleasant vivid dreams and I felt quite unwell. Very weak and lightheaded. Got back to sleep eventually and felt back to my normal level of dehydration and fatigue upon waking again.

Aldosterone & Renin tests have now been booked for next week. I may go easy on the medication for now as I need to stop in advance of the blood tests.
 

Callmestar

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Life is becoming unbearable. I only manage to be out of bed a few hours a day at the moment. Have no energy for anything, constant dry mouth and frequent urination. Look and feel like utter crap.

Definitely eating more fruit, beef, juice. Some milk and dairy here and there but not too much as it gives me brain fog. Must say I'm struggling to have the energy to even make the food and I don't have much of an appetite. Supplementing with t3 8mcg sublingually 3 times a day.

Absolutely no improvement in symptoms. How can I feel and look so dehydrated and yet my electrolytes on bloods are normal?

Renin & Aldosterone bloods next week, although I have no confidence in this showing anything significant at this point. I don't know what do to anymore.
 

LLight

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I may have already suggested this idea but you could supplement with osmolytes like betaine.
 

Callmestar

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I may have already suggested this idea but you could supplement with osmolytes like betaine.

Willing to try anything. What's the idea behind taking betaine? Is it likely to increase hydration in some way?
 

LLight

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I'm not sure it would resolve the cause of your problem, but osmolytes could help your support dehydration more effectively:

Considered here as a cellular disturbance due to water loss, water stress arises from evaporation into air or osmosis into concentrated aqueous surroundings. The latter may be due to saline habitats, physiological function (e.g., concentrated salt in mammalian kidneys), extracellular freezing, or disease (e.g., diabetes). Some cells survive such osmotic stress, but initially they may show disturbances, e.g., reduced growth rates of bacteria (Record et al., 1998), mammalian renal cells (Yancey and Burg, 1990) and embryos (Dawson and Baltz, 1997). For cells that successfully adapt, three generalizations have emerged. First, during short-term water loss cells often restore volume with inorganic ions as osmolytes (Land et al., 1998) while upregulating stress (“heat-shock”) proteins (Petronini et al., 1993; Sheikh-Hamad et al., 1994; Smith et al., 1999), possibly indicating disturbances in protein structures (Fig. 2).

Second, under long-term water stress, organic osmolytes replace ions for volume regulation, while stress proteins decline (Fig. 2). Such osmolyte use is widespread, from some Archaea to mammalian tissues such as kidney and brain. High levels of inorganic ions appear to be incompatible with long-term normal protein function, as perhaps are stress proteins, which may provide no protection against osmotic stress (Yancey and Walsh, 1994, Gagnon et al., 1999). Third, these solutes are limited to a few chemical types (Yancey et al., 1982) shown Figure 1.

Betaine is not the only osmolyte, there is for example inositol, taurine and some other too.
 

BearWithMe

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Life is becoming unbearable. I only manage to be out of bed a few hours a day at the moment. Have no energy for anything, constant dry mouth and frequent urination. Look and feel like utter crap.

Definitely eating more fruit, beef, juice. Some milk and dairy here and there but not too much as it gives me brain fog. Must say I'm struggling to have the energy to even make the food and I don't have much of an appetite. Supplementing with t3 8mcg sublingually 3 times a day.

Absolutely no improvement in symptoms. How can I feel and look so dehydrated and yet my electrolytes on bloods are normal?

Renin & Aldosterone bloods next week, although I have no confidence in this showing anything significant at this point. I don't know what do to anymore.
Damn, that sounds rough. I feel you, I really do!

What is happening now is exactly what I have predicted earlier in the thread. The proposed treatment made you feel worse.

When your health problems stems from high stress hormones, supplementing more synthetic stress hormones is obviously not going to be helpful.

It is about a time to put your ego aside and consider the possibility that what I have said might be true. Your life depends on it at this point.
 

Callmestar

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Just realised I have Betaine HCL which I was taking to try and increase stomach
Damn, that sounds rough. I feel you, I really do!

What is happening now is exactly what I have predicted earlier in the thread. The proposed treatment made you feel worse.

When your health problems stems from high stress hormones, supplementing more synthetic stress hormones is obviously not going to be helpful.

It is about a time to put your ego aside and consider the possibility that what I have said might be true. Your life depends on it at this point.

I'm not on the proposed treatment. I took it for one day, 6 days ago at the lowest dose of 0.1mg and stopped. Thought it better to wait until the Aldosterone & Renin blood tests which I have next week, before taking the risk of making things even worse if it turns out Aldosterone is high rather than low.

I don't doubt what you said is a good start but I am doing those things to the level I can, currently. For sure it sounds like a good base but do I think it's going to resolve these symptoms, unfortunately not. It's not ego saying that, it's through the experience of trying similar approaches before and the sheer inability to retain fluids which to me feels as though it can never allow me to replenish or rebuild. There has to be a mechanism that is not functioning correctly in terms of concentrating urine or maintaining fluid homeostasis and without that being corrected I'm chasing my own tail.

Your list:
-Drinking normal amounts of water (2-2.5 liters of total liquids a day max)
-Dealing with your anxiety and depression
-Getting normal, balanced, highly nutritious diet
-Getting plenty of electrolytes from natural sources / foods
-Supplementing only things you actually need and can't get from food, in rational amounts
-Doing this thoroughly and consistently until you get better
 

LLight

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Just realised I have Betaine HCL which I was taking to try and increase stomach
Note: I'm not sure if betaine-HCL would provide the same thing as pure betaine.
I imagine that you can't take the same amount. But if you have it, it costs nothing to try.
 

Callmestar

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Note: I'm not sure if betaine-HCL would provide the same thing as pure betaine.
I imagine that you can't take the same amount. But if you have it, it costs nothing to try.

Didn't even realise I'd posted that response. It was only half written. But yes I take Betaine HCL sometimes to increase stomach acid in the advice of functional medicine doctor. Although I can't say I've noticed any difference in digestion.
I will look at pure betaine and the other osmolytes and get some ordered.
 

Callmestar

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Starting to feel as though suicide is a reasonable option. I have no way out.
 

Korven

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Starting to feel as though suicide is a reasonable option. I have no way out.

I've also felt suicidal at times when I felt like there was no hope for me of ever getting better. I could write "be strong bro you'll find something that works" but that's not very helpful when you feel hopelessness and despair (and being physically sick). I've been where you are and my heart goes out to you.

Nonetheless, I just kept experimenting until I eventually found something that did help. I'm not back 100% super healthy all the time, but I'm not suicidal anymore and I feel pretty damn good when I stick to what works for me. When you feel like you're stuck you need to reassess your situation and try again, and never give up. Honestly if I could go back in time I wish I would have contacted a health coach e.g Danny Roddy instead of trying to figure out everything on my own and failing miserably. There's always a risk that you're oblivious to something important that could be wrong.

Here are a few things which I think you might want to look at:

• Instead of taking straight T3, try NDT and/or T3 + T4 . Some people get better temps and pulse with a natural desiccated thyroid. Again you want temps and pulse to be at 98.6 F and 85 BPM with consistently warm hands and feet.
• Instead of fludrocortisone, use 50 mg pregnenolone daily and/or progesterone for adrenal support.
• Investigate the possibility that you're dealing with a gut infection and/or SIBO and/or gut dysbiosis. In my experience whenever there's a problem with your gut, the rest of the body will fall apart quickly.
• Betaine and osmolytes supplementation as others recommended.
• Eat a diet of raw meat and fruits.
 

LLight

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Have you tried supplementing with vitamin K /K2?
 

Callmestar

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I've also felt suicidal at times when I felt like there was no hope for me of ever getting better. I could write "be strong bro you'll find something that works" but that's not very helpful when you feel hopelessness and despair (and being physically sick). I've been where you are and my heart goes out to you.

Nonetheless, I just kept experimenting until I eventually found something that did help. I'm not back 100% super healthy all the time, but I'm not suicidal anymore and I feel pretty damn good when I stick to what works for me. When you feel like you're stuck you need to reassess your situation and try again, and never give up. Honestly if I could go back in time I wish I would have contacted a health coach e.g Danny Roddy instead of trying to figure out everything on my own and failing miserably. There's always a risk that you're oblivious to something important that could be wrong.

Here are a few things which I think you might want to look at:

• Instead of taking straight T3, try NDT and/or T3 + T4 . Some people get better temps and pulse with a natural desiccated thyroid. Again you want temps and pulse to be at 98.6 F and 85 BPM with consistently warm hands and feet.
• Instead of fludrocortisone, use 50 mg pregnenolone daily and/or progesterone for adrenal support.
• Investigate the possibility that you're dealing with a gut infection and/or SIBO and/or gut dysbiosis. In my experience whenever there's a problem with your gut, the rest of the body will fall apart quickly.
• Betaine and osmolytes supplementation as others recommended.
• Eat a diet of raw meat and fruits.

Thank you.

I will order some NDT now. Also will look for some pregnenolone. The question is, do I even have low adrenals. My DHEA is high, out of range high on every blood test. My morning Cortisol is normal/high. Waiting on more tests on this and my Aldosterone we don't know yet but have bloods on Aldosterone & Renin next week. Would Pregnenoloe/Progesterone still be a good idea of my adrenals are in fact hyper, rather than hypo?

Gut issues was my next port of call. Considering getting some of the tests listed here Test Kits such as the organic acids or stool test. Or is there a better option? I'm in the UK.
 
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Callmestar

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Have you tried supplementing with vitamin K /K2?

I had a Vitamin D and K2 supplement but I can't say I took it consistently so to answer your question, it's something I've not properly tried no. Do you think it might help and any particular supplement you'd recommend?
 

LLight

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1 - I think I've read that vitamin K Can tend to be depleted by fasting while you said your issues started after a bout of fasting.

2 - Your testosterone is low while vitamin K seems to be involved in steroidogenesis.

3 - Vitamin K could be (at least in plants, and like osmolytes) involved in the resistance to osmotic/dehydration stress. If I'm not mistaken, the concentration of urine involves the occurrence of osmotic stress in some part of the kidney. Should we conclude that if you don't have obvious hormonal explanations to your issues, it could be best explained by your kidneys inability to sustain osmotic stress, which mean you could be deficient in the factors that are needed for it to be possible.

Source:
 
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Belsazar

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Have you read any ray peat articles so far? Any radio interviews? To try to overcome "learned helplessness"? Consultation of psychological support plus finding a proper medical doctor to support you (keep in mind you are taking advice from random people on an online forum who do not know you or your needs)? Getting decent lab works done?
Have you considered trying ray's basics such dumping most supplements, relying on diet, salt, simple (low) dose aspirin or a simple coffee (keep in mind to draw your own conclusions based on what you have learned or experimented so far and not to take any suggestions here on the forum blindly?) Listening to your body's needs?
 

Callmestar

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Have you read any ray peat articles so far? Any radio interviews? To try to overcome "learned helplessness"? Consultation of psychological support plus finding a proper medical doctor to support you (keep in mind you are taking advice from random people on an online forum who do not know you or your needs)? Getting decent lab works done?
Have you considered trying ray's basics such dumping most supplements, relying on diet, salt, simple (low) dose aspirin or a simple coffee (keep in mind to draw your own conclusions based on what you have learned or experimented so far and not to take any suggestions here on the forum blindly?) Listening to your body's needs?

Yes, I have. I've watched just about every podcast with Peat in on youtube over the past few weeks and will continue to read.

I can completely understand how my posts may appear as 'learned helplessness' but it honestly isn't. I'm just saying it how it is. I've had this health problem for around 4 years now, spent most of that time with traditional doctors, endocrinologists etc but also trying many different health protocols through my own research. I also spent a year just plainly ignoring my symptoms and pushing on with life as there appeared to be no solution. It was hell but I kept my head just above water. Now I've come to a point where I cannot live any form of normal life with these symptoms and posted here for help. Of course, I've posted on other forums previously but they recommend different approaches which I've tried. If there is a small degree of subconscious learned helplessness there, this situation has pushed me into it but I am here, genuinely trying to get better and trying every approach I can.

Unfortunately the problem of water homeostasis/inability to concentrate urine seems to be very rare with little specific information on how to improve it.

Getting decent lab work done? Not sure what labs you are referring to but I've been through every test the health service will give me. One of my privately paid for blood tests can be found on page 1 of this thread. I'm waiting on further tests currently and willing to pay for anything that may find some answers.

Yes I've considered Rays basics and am implementing them. Not yet cutting out all supplements at this stage though.
 
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Callmestar

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Eaten a ton of fruit and juice after breakfast of eggs and cheese this morning. Now a snack of 500g grass fed beef with some blended liver added. Along with local honey and a few button mushrooms. Plenty of salt on there too

Will have to put it into a chronometer later.IMG_20210501_181511000~2.jpg
 
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