Chromium Is The Only Thing That Helps, Alternative?

Dobster

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I'm taking niacin bound chromium polynicotinate, which in my experience works a lot better than picolinate or GTF. Probably the niacin helping somehow.
Most of the dangers have been from studies using picolinate.

Hey @SarahBeara where do you get the niacin bound chromium polynicotinate Thank you. Dobster
 

Atalanta

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It's tough. I might pick up some Brewer's Yeast from Whole Foods tomorrow. If I can't solve this in about a week I'm just gonna go back into ketosis because I need to get back to a livable energy level. It's depressing. Starting today I'm taking a little daily tab of chromium picolinate from CVS as a last ditch effort. :shootself

Make sure you read the label. Most brewer's yeast (for human consumption) are not good sources of chromium.Today most brewer's yeast are de-bittered and that process drastically reduces the chromium content.
 

Atalanta

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I didn't read the original study. Things that make me think this should be taken with a grain of salt :

- It's an isolated paper cherry picked. There can be dozens of external variables that affect the paper claims. As with every study in fact. You can't make definiteve statements with only one paper.
- "can cause", "possible", "long-term", "high-doses"

I am not in favour of chromium "per se" but I'm sure it's much more carcinogenic to not digest, sleep, socialize, maintain blood sugar levels, handle stress, etc.

If I would be you I would take the chromium, forget about the supposed dangers for a few weeks or months, and keep researching how you can keep improving metabolism and control glucose levels. Or even better, forget about all this and live your life. Finding a simple solution that fixes so many things and allows you to live a happy life is, obviously, very healing. We tend to overcomplicate things.

You are gonna find papers on dangers of absolutely everything in our daily lives. From meat, milk, allergens, pollution, stress, your mother's traumas, tap water, soaps, underpaid jobs, pesticides in the orange juice, residues in table salt, GMO coconuts, metalic cookware and some fight you had with your brother when you were kids and you never "processed" (like processed cheese). Whatever.

I agree.

Many of the Peat-approved supplements have serious side effects, even though people here choose to ignore this fact. No matter the side effects, a Peat-approved supplement or food gets a pass. Yet a non Peat-approved supplement or food that is helpful, people will dig up any and every study that says this food or supplement "may" be dangerous or carcinogenic.

Let's be honest here: Everyone, including Ray Peat, cherry picks information to support their views. Ray Peat is a flawed, fallible human being. Any peat follower who does not understand this is in serious trouble. Ray Peat has changed his mind about lots of things. For example, in the past he used to recommend only 50 grams of protein per day and now he recommend much more. He also did not recommend lots of milk and calcium. In fact, in one of his books, he said calcium was estrogenic. So anyone who was following Peat's advice 20 or 30 years ago is not getting the same advice that current Peat followers are getting.What if Peat ends up changing his mind about chromium, for example. Then will it be okay to use and benefit from it?

Peat says cancer cannot exist without PUFA. Why then are Peat followers concerned about the possible carcinogenicity of chromium or any other substance? If Peat is correct, then the only thing a person needs to do to remain cancer free is deplete/avoid PUFA right? If the anti-cancer, pro-metabolic effects of no PUFA, milk, calcium, sugar, aspirin, and the other peat supplements/foods are so great, then why worry about the carcinogenicity of anything else?

There are different types of cancers and there is no substance, be it food or supplement, that is known to be a universal and sole cause of cancer. There are many people who ingest "carcinogenic" foods and chemicals every day and remain cancer free. Even the dreaded estrogen does not cause cancer in everyone. There are lots of people walking around with excess estrogen in their bodies and they do not have cancer. Human biochemistry is not that simple.

Given that the human life span is finite, we should put great emphasis on the quality of our lives and feeling good. Ray Peat is only 80 years old. We don't know him personally so we do not know the true state of his health. I know people who lived into their nineties and past 100 and they ate everything Peat disapproves of.
 
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Just trying to find out what was happening, sheesh.
 
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chromium is very toxic. The body has an elaborate defense system to protect against chromium. I would not use it.
 

tyw

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chromium is very toxic. The body has an elaborate defense system to protect against chromium. I would not use it.

Chromium is not "very toxic". It has been studied in the context of diabetes and other diseases, and found to be helpful at restoring some degree of insulin sensitivity -- Role of Chromium in Human Health and in Diabetes | Diabetes Care

Effective doses used in these reviews were around 500-1000 micrograms a day.

Note that this refers specifically to Cr(III), which is the form of chromium most found in foods anyway.

Cr(IV) on the other hand, is very bad for mitochondrial function.

In this study, Cr(IV) inhibited basically everything regarding mitochondrial function. All complexes were shut down, and most importantly, Complex 1 was down -- Chromium(VI) interaction with plant and animal mitochondrial bioenergetics: a comparative study. - PubMed - NCBI

Cr(III) and Cr(VI) also have different effects on the mitochondrial permeability transition pore (MPT) -- Interactions of Cr(VI) and Cr(III) with isolated rat liver mitochondria

Cr(IV) tends to induce opening of the MPT, which we know is the initiating factor for Apoptosis of the cell (generally not a good thing when it is forced). Cr(III) on the other hand, prevented opening of the MPT in the presence of Cr(IV).

-----

Whether or not someone decides to take a chromium supplement is then up to themselves.

....
 
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Of course it is. It's a heavy metal. It may be necessary in very small quantities.

Binding of Chromium(III) to Transferrin Could Be Involved in Detoxification of Dietary Chromium(III) Rather than Transport of an Essential Trace Element - Levina - 2016 - Angewandte Chemie - Wiley Online Library
Binding of Chromium(III) to Transferrin Could Be Involved in Detoxification of Dietary Chromium(III) Rather than Transport of an Essential Trace Element
Chromium-3 needs to be removed from cells...

Carcinogenic Chromium(VI) Compounds Formed by Intracellular Oxidation of Chromium(III) Dietary Supplements by Adipocytes
Carcinogenic Chromium(VI) Compounds Formed by Intracellular Oxidation of Chromium(III) Dietary Supplements by Adipocytes - Wu - 2015 - Angewandte Chemie - Wiley Online Library
The supposedly safe Chromium-6 is created in vivo from Chromium-3...


Determination of Chromium Species in Dietary Supplements Using Speciated Isotope Dilution Mass Spectrometry with Mass Balance
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf403067c
Many supposedly Chromium-3 supps contain Chromium-6
 

m_arch

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Given that the human life span is finite, we should put great emphasis on the quality of our lives and feeling good. Ray Peat is only 80 years old. We don't know him personally so we do not know the true state of his health. I know people who lived into their nineties and past 100 and they ate everything Peat disapproves of.

Do you trust the fitness trainer who was blessed with great genes and still looks pretty good, or the person who looks average but has recovered from serious illness?

I think its more about what they've achieved given their starting point. I know Ray has had hyperthyroidism - he wasn't blessed with perfect health. Do people with hyperthyroidism usually live till 80 and still sound as mentally sharp as he does?
 

tara

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I know Ray has had hyperthyroidism
Maybe he had a hyperthyroid patch somewhere in there (idk), but I think he's talked more about how he's addressed hypothyroid issues.
 

m_arch

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Maybe he had a hyperthyroid patch somewhere in there (idk), but I think he's talked more about how he's addressed hypothyroid issues.
Oh, I mostly just remember his story when he was young working in the forest or something having to eat 8,000 calories a day to maintain his weight.
 

tara

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Oh, I mostly just remember his story when he was young working in the forest or something having to eat 8,000 calories a day to maintain his weight.
Didn't he also say about some of his high-calorie time that he had to increase his thyroid function to improve his fuel efficiency and reduce calorie consumption? I didn't see him call this period hyperthyroid?
 

tyw

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Of course it is. It's a heavy metal. It may be necessary in very small quantities.

Binding of Chromium(III) to Transferrin Could Be Involved in Detoxification of Dietary Chromium(III) Rather than Transport of an Essential Trace Element - Levina - 2016 - Angewandte Chemie - Wiley Online Library
Binding of Chromium(III) to Transferrin Could Be Involved in Detoxification of Dietary Chromium(III) Rather than Transport of an Essential Trace Element
Chromium-3 needs to be removed from cells...

Carcinogenic Chromium(VI) Compounds Formed by Intracellular Oxidation of Chromium(III) Dietary Supplements by Adipocytes
Carcinogenic Chromium(VI) Compounds Formed by Intracellular Oxidation of Chromium(III) Dietary Supplements by Adipocytes - Wu - 2015 - Angewandte Chemie - Wiley Online Library
The supposedly safe Chromium-6 is created in vivo from Chromium-3...


Determination of Chromium Species in Dietary Supplements Using Speciated Isotope Dilution Mass Spectrometry with Mass Balance
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf403067c
Many supposedly Chromium-3 supps contain Chromium-6

Something being a heavy metal is not a qualification for it being toxic. Qualifications based on dose and existing health conditions need to be made. The same applies to other heavy metals like Manganese and Molybdenum, to which there is therapeutic use, in the right context, at the right dose.

A posted a research review based on actual clinical use of the compound, which largely refers to the chromium picolinate (Cr(C6H4NO2)3) form, and not the exotic drug compounds which are discussed in the 2nd study you posted (in this case [Cr3O(OCOEt)6(OH2)3]+). In the clinical context, there are clear clinical uses for Chromium Picolinate, and the benefits may outweigh the risks in some scenarios.

The doses used in that in-vitro study also left a chromium concentration of 1.0mM. This is very high, and far exceeding anything that the doses used in the clinical research reviews can achieve.

The first study showed a good mechanism for a regulatory mechanism for Chromium (through Transferrin binding). It is clear that chromium is being regulated by the body, and in fact most of the Chromium even in the more highly available chromium picolinate form does not reach cells (we're talking 2% gut absorption, and maybe 20% of that 2% actually being bio-active, and yet, the compound still has an impact).

High doses are detrimental to cell function, but this does not mean that Chromium may not be useful at lower doses, in the right context, dosed for the appropriate period of time.

For clinical use, I personally think Chromium Picolinate is the only provably safe chromium source (again, at the right dose).

Personally, is Chromium something that I see people requiring? In general, no, but in some cases, it helps.

It is a "cure for diabetes". No ;)

....
 

m_arch

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Didn't he also say about some of his high-calorie time that he had to increase his thyroid function to improve his fuel efficiency and reduce calorie consumption? I didn't see him call this period hyperthyroid?
I understood it that he said supplemental thyroid, while hyperthyroid, helped improve his efficiency and enabled him to normalise his calorie intake
 

Pet Peeve

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If chromium works by lowering blood sugar then you can also try biotin, alpha lipoic acid and vitamin k to a lesser degree.
 

yomama

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I suffered severe hypoglycemia episodes because my liver condition and drugs I had to take. Brewer's yeast (un-debittered), a B-complex pill and a teaspoon of Cinnamon (the Ceylon, not the Cassia variety) each morning greatly helped me. Usually my daily sugar intake is around 70 ~ 90 gr., I only take 2 white sugar lumps with the late morning coffee, all the rest is from food.
I still have some low sugar episode from time to time, mainly after a big effort, when my BP goes too low or if fasting too much, but in general I must say the above formula really works for me.
I never took chromium supplements but I may give it a try, I would like to see if as they say it could increase DHEA endogenous production.
 

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