Chris Masterjohn Seems To Be Falling Apart

[Sulcuscentralis]

I used to get a headache from Vitamin A, anything over 10K IU/day. After taking supplemental copper, the problem disappeared. I even tested it with several days of 50-75 K IU in a row, and had no headache.

I'm pretty sure most people who have trouble with Vitamin A are missing something, but they may not find the answer in pubmed if it's obscure or undocumented.

It reminds me of a recent paper on the hepatoxicity of EGCG finding that it was caused by copper deficiency. It might have been the missing thing for all those people with documented cases of hepatoxicity from EGCG supplements. But prior to that paper, the reason was unknown.

Makes more sense to eat liver instead of supplements.

 

[yerrag]

Makes more sense to eat liver instead of supplements.

I agree. And Ray Peat only advises eating it only once a week. I also remember him talking about animals on the onset of spring needing vitamin A to help restore their metabolism from winter hibernation, and to prepare them for a new reproductive cycle. My impression is that more vitamin A is needed in periods with an abundance of sunlight. I tried going without liver or oysters for a while, and I didn't feel good. So I reverted back to the once weekly intake. I live in the tropics though.

I wonder though if vitamin A toxicity is as common in the tropics.

 

[SQu]

I think you're right, RWilly, Masterjohn had health issues to start with and he's finding his way.

But I think there are a lot of success stories. I'm a Peat success story. It just feels rude to post about feeling great when you know others are still in recovery.

Just to help others keep up the faith, my blood pressure was 87ish over low 50s, my resting heart rate was in the 60s, I had joint and muscle and nerve pain 24/7, was cold all the time, couldn't breathe, developed cancer, and developed symptoms like MS (never got an official diagnosis). Couldn't sleep more than an hour at a time. No energy. Very sad.

My treatment was a Peat diet, sunlight, and surgery to remove the sinus tumor. No chemo or radiation. No prescription drugs. I take an adult aspirin and a half a day, a few drops of Energin B vitamins, a couple of drops of K2 a day, one drop of Vit E, a few drops of progesterone, a pinch of taurine. I used Idealab's Oxidal and Pyrucet during recovery but don't need either anymore. Resting heart rate 85ish. Breathing fine. Never cold. Pain gone. Front thigh muscles still a little stiff occasionally but longer and longer periods of no stiffness. Blood is now normal pH. Pet scan perfect. Blood pressure normal. Sleeping through the night. Plenty of energy. Happy.

It's taken a year and a half so far. Still working on my legs.

Same program has greatly helped prostate and nerve problems in loved ones.

Fantastic, thanks for sharing!

 

[Nemo]

@Nemo did you have good results with pyrucet if I may ask?

Adrienlcrx, yes, I loved it. Great for endurance, breathing, weight loss. I felt like it really knocked out any residual effects of the cancer.

 

[InChristAlone]

Well, I don't know what wealthy country you are in, or referring to, but I can assure you, in the USA, there has been an outright WAR on retinol containing and Vitamin A fortified foods since the early 70s. All meat consumption is down, all dairy consumption is down (including fortified and whole), and all egg consumption is down. USDA guidelines for Vitamin A keep on getting revised downwards, from 25,000 IU to 10,000 IU to 5,000 IU to currently 3,000 IU. Multivitamins have contained progressively less and less retinol and carotene. And while I don't think beta carotene is the same as retinol, the paltry rise in vegetable consumption in no way can make up for the decline in retinol consumption over the past 40 years. Also, outside of your grandparents and people that follow the paleo diet, Ray Peat's work, WAPFers or Crossfitters, you probably can't name anyone who has taken a bite of liver since 1997.

Your one graph gives a very very small picture of dairy consumption. Sure people may be drinking less whole milk, but dairy consumption has not gone down at all, in fact it has gone up. Here is total dairy consumption:

Butter consumption is up to 5.5 lbs per person:

Yogurt consumption has skyrocketed:

Cheese consumption is also up:

So I'm not sure where you are getting the idea people aren't consuming vitamin A. I noticed low fat mozzarella is fortified with vitamin A now too. Liver hasn't been on the SAD for many years obviously, but that's because it makes people gag not because there's a war on retinol. Retin-A is a very popular dermatology product, and people use vitamin A containing serums for the skin, not sure if you've been around the beauty community. People are still consuming plenty of cereal products as well. Just one cup of cheerios for instance has 500 IUs retinol. If they eat that with skim milk, then they'll be getting another 500 IUs of retinol. Just for breakfast. An infant will get 1600 IUs of retinyl palmitate a day if not breastfed (that's more than my daily intake!!!). Breastmilk contains 670 +-200 mcg RAE /liter.

If multivitamins used to contain a lot more retinol then it's a good thing they don't anymore. Americans clearly can't handle 25,000 IUs. Most people are indoors year round they just don't need it. Are you saying they do?

 

[mrsuomi]

VA is the most inflammatory substance I have ever consumed. That might be conditional, contextual, but it's still a fact. If it is a poison it is way worse than PUFA, and if it isn't, its promoters know way less about it than they think they know, and it's irresponsible for them to recommend it in the fashion that they're doing. Zinc sounds interesting, I might try that.

That is because your issues are autoimmune, Vitamin A helps the immune system fight infections or if you have an autoimmune flare-up, it will make your symptoms worse, get on the carnivore diet until your symptoms are gone and then you can eat all the vitamin A you want

 

[postman]

That is because your issues are autoimmune, Vitamin A helps the immune system fight infections or if you have an autoimmune flare-up, it will make your symptoms worse, get on the carnivore diet until your symptoms are gone and then you can eat all the vitamin A you want

Doesn't ketosis just inhibit the immune system, in a similair fashion that avoiding VA does?

 

[Sanjutsi]

Maybe he just had a tick bite?

 

[mrsuomi]

Doesn't ketosis just inhibit the immune system, in a similair fashion that avoiding VA does?

Never heard of ketosis inhibit the immune system, but if I fast more than 24 hours my autoimmune symptoms goes waaaay down

 

[InChristAlone]

Cortisol is a powerful anti-inflammatory. But destructive in the long term. Just look at hydrocortisone creams for eczema, clears it right up, but over time with continual use the eczema comes back so much worse than before.

 

[redsun]

Never heard of ketosis inhibit the immune system, but if I fast more than 24 hours my autoimmune symptoms goes waaaay down

Well we know very little carbs like keto which is less than 50g a day lowers your thyroid hormones and less thyroid generally means weaker immunity. I havent read particularly of thyroid and immunity specifically but less glucose means less T3. Also your autoimmunity could be improving because there are foods you dont tolerate that you are eating and they damage your gut and increase endotoxins.

 

[mrsuomi]

Well we know very little carbs like keto which is less than 50g a day lowers your thyroid hormones and less thyroid generally means weaker immunity. I havent read particularly of thyroid and immunity specifically but less glucose means less T3. Also your autoimmunity could be improving because there are foods you dont tolerate that you are eating and they damage your gut and increase endotoxins.

The reason is because carb metabolism requires more t3. So just because keto lowers your t3, it's only because it's needed for the extra carbs

 

[LLight]

Cortisol is a powerful anti-inflammatory. But destructive in the long term. Just look at hydrocortisone creams for eczema, clears it right up, but over time with continual use the eczema comes back so much worse than before.

Ketones could be anti-inflammatory: The ketone metabolite β-hydroxybutyrate blocks NLRP3 inflammasome–mediated inflammatory disease

 

[burtlancast]

Coimbra protocol is proving to destroy people as well.

Given your track record of dubious sources, it makes me feel secure when i see you badmouth the Coimbra protocol, Janelle.

On another note, how come this thread has been hijacked by the anti-vitamin A people ?

 

[postman]

Given your track record of dubious sources, it makes me feel secure when i see you badmouth the Coimbra protocol, Janelle.

On another note, how come this thread has been hijacked by the anti-vitamin A people ?

What does that even have to do with anything

 

[Adrienlcrx]

What are the worst contrevants that irritate the gut to create inflammatory endotoxins in your experience @redsun if I may ask?

 

[burtlancast]

What does that even have to do with anything

As little as i know about Masterjohn, he doesn't ascribe to Genereux' theory about Vit A being a poison.

The title of this thread was about Chris, yet more than 70% of the posts here have turned about Genereux' theory, and it involves the same members than the dedicated thread.

 

[redsun]

Given your track record of dubious sources, it makes me feel secure when i see you badmouth the Coimbra protocol, Janelle.

On another note, how come this thread has been hijacked by the anti-vitamin A people ?

If coimbra protocol gets popular enough, soon we will have anti-vitamin D people. Imagine how hilarious that would be, no eggs and dairy or vitamin D foods and people purposefully avoiding the sun

What are the worst contrevants that irritate the gut to create inflammatory endotoxins in your experience @redsun if I may ask?

In my experience it is high-fiber plant foods but it is highly individual. Some get problems from dairy, eggs, potatoes, certain vegetables, certain fruits... these things need to be specifically tested via elimination for best individual results.

 

[RWilly]

The title of this thread was about Chris, yet more than 70% of the posts here have turned about Genereux' theory, and it involves the same members than the dedicated thread.

Yeah... I'd hate for Chris's name to keeping popping up in the title if the thread gets to be as big as the main vitamin A toxicity thread. Not really fair to Chris.

 

[InChristAlone]

Given your track record of dubious sources, it makes me feel secure when i see you badmouth the Coimbra protocol, Janelle.

On another note, how come this thread has been hijacked by the anti-vitamin A people ?

I didn't even go back to that thread after you attacked my character so....

When most of the United States believes vaccines save lives, you will not convince a single soul with unverifiable quotes that take hrs to find out if any of it is true. You should try arguing with a pro-vaxxer they are 100 times more ruthless. You can't quote unknown scientists, you can't quote Natural News, you can't make up lines just for reaction, they all laugh at our attempts to sway them.

By the way -Matt Monarch a well known enema guru practically died of colitis from excessive colonics. Are you still using gallons of coffee up your butt?