Chris Masterjohn Seems To Be Falling Apart

[jb116]

Yeah Finland, Sweden, Norway and the UK top the list of T1D incidence. Not a whole lot of UVB hitting their skin.

They are also leaders in PUFA consumption.

 

[Tarmander]

As a regulator of immune response, it does. That's why it worked for crohn's, it is just one of the facets of a healthy immune system. And as mentioned previously, it makes no difference the "immune issue." Big pharma knows this too hence the push for one drug to cover several so-called different immune "diseases."

broadly speaking it does, but by the same reasoning drinking milk helps AIDS patients because of the added vitamins A. The lack of nuance at that broad level tells you nothing.

 

[jb116]

broadly speaking it does, but by the same reasoning drinking milk helps AIDS patients because of the added vitamins A. The lack of nuance at that broad level tells you nothing.

But you are still focused on the one thing. I've been pushing the balance idea which encapsulates a broader picture and therefore many, many other things. I never said that one thing will do this or that but I am certainly saying that one thing should be in the broader picture.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes agreed, as per my post. Balance as the key. I think we are in agreeance.



As a regulator of immune response, it does. That's why it worked for crohn's, it is just one of the facets of a healthy immune system. And as mentioned previously, it makes no difference the "immune issue." Big pharma knows this too hence the push for one drug to cover several so-called different immune "diseases."

But T1D stands out in that the original problem can't be cured, so any kind of treatment is not geared towards bringing back insulin producing cells, and as far as I know they don't have other autoimmune attacks do they? I mean it's not like a multi system attack. Whereas Crohn's is very treatable. And for children the diabetes can come on very quickly. I haven't seen any proof Vitamin A would stop this from happening.

 

[Tarmander]

But you are still focused on the one thing. I've been pushing the balance idea which encapsulates a broader picture and therefore many, many other things. I never said that one thing will do this or that but I am certainly saying that one thing should be in the broader picture.

Nothing wrong with focusing, especially in this scenario where you have Chris talking about T1D in particular and eating lots of VA, usually through organ meats. I think that is a bad idea. But if youre just broadly saying vitamin A is apart of our diet and it does stuff with the immune system and so is connected with auto immunity, by all means carry on.

 

[jb116]

But T1D stands out in that the original problem can't be cured, so any kind of treatment is not geared towards bringing back insulin producing cells, and as far as I know they don't have other autoimmune attacks do they? I mean it's not like a multi system attack. Whereas Crohn's is very treatable. And for children the diabetes can come on very quickly. I haven't seen any proof Vitamin A would stop this from happening.

Crohn's being "very treatable" is very much a contentious point. From the eyes of the industry, yes they'll tell you its treatable through a certain narrative, most likely involving steroids and immunosuppression.. From my eyes, it's treatable and in a sense reversible precisely away from their definition of what it is and how to treat it. I hate how for the majority of when I suffered with it, my fate was in their hands essentially and even physically relinquished intestinal tract because they know cut, poison burn very well.
When I say "immune issues" are complex it is because every immune situation creates a mosaic from numerous pieces. If you only look at one piece, you won't get very far. If you consider all pieces, then you start to understand that while you work on one aspect of it, another aspect of it may still override your efforts. All in all convincing you, you have failed. Example: antibiotics can work very very well for "immune issues." But when blind and in their clenches, that is just one tiny piece of the picture. So not tending to the others, it might fail. Then you assume, "oh well there is no fixing this, this route failed." It is probably the same case for T1D. Peat has mentioned that it has been discovered for example that Beta cells constantly regenerate and they in fact respond to glucose. He said the main issue is severe FFA and as somebody pointed out LPS that constantly poison and damage the system, killing the cells even though they are regenerating. That means a good portion of understanding what it happening there has been highlighted but they are failing to come all the way through. So most likely, EVEN if Vit A was used in this case of T1D, they probably haven't tackled the other aspects as I mentioned. For myself, Vit A was involved but so were many other things as a total picture of recovering health. And with tedious attention to what affected what and in what way one can certainly do that. Living with an issue makes you an expert and you start to learn that it takes several factors to get right for it all to start coming together.

 

[Nemo]

What I always think is sad, is that there are not success stories for most people. I know I read very few. I think we're still missing a huge key and huge 'ah-ha' in nutrition.

I think you're right, RWilly, Masterjohn had health issues to start with and he's finding his way.

But I think there are a lot of success stories. I'm a Peat success story. It just feels rude to post about feeling great when you know others are still in recovery.

Just to help others keep up the faith, my blood pressure was 87ish over low 50s, my resting heart rate was in the 60s, I had joint and muscle and nerve pain 24/7, was cold all the time, couldn't breathe, developed cancer, and developed symptoms like MS (never got an official diagnosis). Couldn't sleep more than an hour at a time. No energy. Very sad.

My treatment was a Peat diet, sunlight, and surgery to remove the sinus tumor. No chemo or radiation. No prescription drugs. I take an adult aspirin and a half a day, a few drops of Energin B vitamins, a couple of drops of K2 a day, one drop of Vit E, a few drops of progesterone, a pinch of taurine. I used Idealab's Oxidal and Pyrucet during recovery but don't need either anymore. Resting heart rate 85ish. Breathing fine. Never cold. Pain gone. Front thigh muscles still a little stiff occasionally but longer and longer periods of no stiffness. Blood is now normal pH. Pet scan perfect. Blood pressure normal. Sleeping through the night. Plenty of energy. Happy.

It's taken a year and a half so far. Still working on my legs.

Same program has greatly helped prostate and nerve problems in loved ones.

 

[RWilly]

I think you're right, RWilly, Masterjohn had health issues to start with and he's finding his way.

But I think there are a lot of success stories. I'm a Peat success story. It just feels rude to post about feeling great when you know others are still in recovery.

Just to help others keep up the faith, my blood pressure was 87ish over low 50s, my resting heart rate was in the 60s, I had joint and muscle and nerve pain 24/7, was cold all the time, couldn't breathe, developed cancer, and developed symptoms like MS (never got an official diagnosis). Couldn't sleep more than an hour at a time. No energy. Very sad.

My treatment was a Peat diet, sunlight, and surgery to remove the sinus tumor. No chemo or radiation. No prescription drugs. I take an adult aspirin and a half a day, a few drops of Energin B vitamins, a couple of drops of K2 a day, one drop of Vit E, a few drops of progesterone, a pinch of taurine. I used Idealab's Oxidal and Pyrucet during recovery but don't need either anymore. Resting heart rate 85ish. Breathing fine. Never cold. Pain gone. Front thigh muscles still a little stiff occasionally but longer and longer periods of no stiffness. Blood is now normal pH. Pet scan perfect. Blood pressure normal. Sleeping through the night. Plenty of energy. Happy.

It's taken a year and a half so far. Still working on my legs.

Same program has greatly helped prostate and nerve problems in loved ones.

Love to hear success stories! Thank you for sharing.

 

[CLASH]

It's doubtful that vit A is the culprit in these wealthy countries autoimmune issues. what much more likely is:

-PUFA (as mentioned) especially in israel, thier omega 6 consumption is insane
-lack of sunlight (as mentioned)
-vaccination (as mentioned)
-lack of breastfeeding
-processed food/ grain/ bean/ nut/ seed/ alcohol/ vegetable heavy, iron fortified, preservative enriched, gums added, unknown additive added, vitamin/ mineral deficient, poorly grown diets/ vegan propaganda
-negative trans-generational impact
-excess stress from our current society and culture including the implosion of the family unit and the community by putting women in the workplace
-the immediate and transgenerational impact of ridiculous pharma drugs including SSRI's, DES, accutane etc.

With that said excess use of vitamins/ minerals such as vit A, vit D, zinc, calcium, etc. can be problematic as our friend @Amazoniac has pointed out continuously with his posts.

 

[postman]

VA is the most inflammatory substance I have ever consumed. That might be conditional, contextual, but it's still a fact. If it is a poison it is way worse than PUFA, and if it isn't, its promoters know way less about it than they think they know, and it's irresponsible for them to recommend it in the fashion that they're doing. Zinc sounds interesting, I might try that.

 

[CLASH]

VA is the most inflammatory substance I have ever consumed. That might be conditional, contextual, but it's still a fact. If it is a poison it is way worse than PUFA, and if it isn't, its promoters know way less about it than they think they know, and it's irresponsible for them to recommend it in the fashion that they're doing. Zinc sounds interesting, I might try that.

sure its the vit A and not other components of the foods? sure you dont have a latent infection and vit a is exacerbating symptoms from it?

 

[postman]

sure its the vit A and not other components of the foods? sure you dont have a latent infection and vit a is exacerbating symptoms from it?

Yes, because I've tried it as a pure supplement. Don't know what kind of infection that would be, or why VA would make it so much worse.

 

[boxers]

It's doubtful that vit A is the culprit in these wealthy countries autoimmune issues. what much more likely is:

-PUFA (as mentioned) especially in israel, thier omega 6 consumption is insane
-lack of sunlight (as mentioned)
-vaccination (as mentioned)
-lack of breastfeeding
-processed food/ grain/ bean/ nut/ seed/ alcohol/ vegetable heavy, iron fortified, preservative enriched, gums added, unknown additive added, vitamin/ mineral deficient, poorly grown diets/ vegan propaganda
-negative trans-generational impact
-excess stress from our current society and culture including the implosion of the family unit and the community by putting women in the workplace
-the immediate and transgenerational impact of ridiculous pharma drugs including SSRI's, DES, accutane etc.

With that said excess use of vitamins/ minerals such as vit A, vit D, zinc, calcium, etc. can be problematic as our friend @Amazoniac has pointed out continuously with his posts.

Evolution and Autoimmunity - Autoimmunity - NCBI Bookshelf
“
Also on vaccines...
There are a few known associations of vaccines increasing the risk of certain autoimmune diseases, such as the flu vaccine and Guillain-Barré and MMR with immune thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP). And it makes sense that vaccines could potentially cause autoimmune diseases, since they are designed to stimulate the immune system, and autoimmune diseases are disorders of that immune system. However, studies have shown that these are very rare. Using MMR and ITP as an example, there is an increased risk. However, that risk is lower than it is with measles infection, the clinical course of ITP after vaccination is less severe compared to ITP after measles infection, and 90% of children resolve completely within 6 months.

And before you tell me how risky that is, the actual risk in that study was 23 cases in 700,000 children. Do the math, and . . . you know what, don't. I've done it for you - it's 0.0033%.

As for other autoimmune diseases (like ASIA), these occurrences are so rarethat studying them is difficult because of their rarity, and some researchers do not believe ASIA even exists. An excellent review article can be found herewhich details pretty much everything I just said”

Stories from the trauma bay: Busting Vaccine Myths

 

[CLASH]

Yes, because I've tried it as a pure supplement. Don't know what kind of infection that would be, or why VA would make it so much worse.

I don't feel well supplementing it either but I can eat foods with vit A without an issue. When I had gut issues I couldnt eat those foods, however since resolving those issues, I havent had an issue.

 

[CLASH]

Evolution and Autoimmunity - Autoimmunity - NCBI Bookshelf
“
Also on vaccines...
There are a few known associations of vaccines increasing the risk of certain autoimmune diseases, such as the flu vaccine and Guillain-Barré and MMR with immune thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP). And it makes sense that vaccines could potentially cause autoimmune diseases, since they are designed to stimulate the immune system, and autoimmune diseases are disorders of that immune system. However, studies have shown that these are very rare. Using MMR and ITP as an example, there is an increased risk. However, that risk is lower than it is with measles infection, the clinical course of ITP after vaccination is less severe compared to ITP after measles infection, and 90% of children resolve completely within 6 months.

And before you tell me how risky that is, the actual risk in that study was 23 cases in 700,000 children. Do the math, and . . . you know what, don't. I've done it for you - it's 0.0033%.

As for other autoimmune diseases (like ASIA), these occurrences are so rarethat studying them is difficult because of their rarity, and some researchers do not believe ASIA even exists. An excellent review article can be found herewhich details pretty much everything I just said”

Stories from the trauma bay: Busting Vaccine Myths

The first article was interesting. What specifically did you want to highlight from it?

As far as I understand vaccines, the incidence of these diseases dropped with the advent of sanitation even before vaccines came into play. Furthermore, there is the antigen component of a vaccine that may be problematic but there is also the other components such as stabilizers, preservatives etc that may also be problematic. Then the idea of giving very young children a barrage of injected antigens and possibly toxic non-active ingredients simultaneously is questionable at best in my opinion. Considering the powers involved I doubt a straight answer will come out about vaccines. I think breast feeding, solid family, solid diet and a solid environment will go much farther than any vaccine. Considering the track record of the medical industry, I'd hedge my bets against vaccination and the data they produce on it.

 

[postman]

I don't feel well supplementing it either but I can eat foods with vit A without an issue. When I had gut issues I couldnt eat those foods, however since resolving those issues, I havent had an issue.

Supplementing it, and all foods with it, increases inflammation for me. It also causes stomach pain, indigestion, diarrhea, even when taken on the skin.

 

[InChristAlone]

Crohn's being "very treatable" is very much a contentious point. From the eyes of the industry, yes they'll tell you its treatable through a certain narrative, most likely involving steroids and immunosuppression.. From my eyes, it's treatable and in a sense reversible precisely away from their definition of what it is and how to treat it. I hate how for the majority of when I suffered with it, my fate was in their hands essentially and even physically relinquished intestinal tract because they know cut, poison burn very well.
When I say "immune issues" are complex it is because every immune situation creates a mosaic from numerous pieces. If you only look at one piece, you won't get very far. If you consider all pieces, then you start to understand that while you work on one aspect of it, another aspect of it may still override your efforts. All in all convincing you, you have failed. Example: antibiotics can work very very well for "immune issues." But when blind and in their clenches, that is just one tiny piece of the picture. So not tending to the others, it might fail. Then you assume, "oh well there is no fixing this, this route failed." It is probably the same case for T1D. Peat has mentioned that it has been discovered for example that Beta cells constantly regenerate and they in fact respond to glucose. He said the main issue is severe FFA and as somebody pointed out LPS that constantly poison and damage the system, killing the cells even though they are regenerating. That means a good portion of understanding what it happening there has been highlighted but they are failing to come all the way through. So most likely, EVEN if Vit A was used in this case of T1D, they probably haven't tackled the other aspects as I mentioned. For myself, Vit A was involved but so were many other things as a total picture of recovering health. And with tedious attention to what affected what and in what way one can certainly do that. Living with an issue makes you an expert and you start to learn that it takes several factors to get right for it all to start coming together.

I'm sorry to hear you've been through a lot, I didn't mean Crohn's is not complex or difficult just that in comparison to T1D there is hope that you can have a fully functioning intestinal tract, whereas T1D have barely any hope of recovering their beta cells. And yes for sure there are so many factors involved in immune issues. It's so great you were able to come through. The cut and burn approach is so barbaric!

I agree that glucose is necessary for diabetes. I have a particular interest in diabetes as I had to watch my son for a few years-he had excessive thirst, very lean (though never failure to thrive), peed a ton and his blood sugars were higher than I ever experienced- though not to the level of diabetes. I just continued to let him have as much sugar as he desired and he seems fine other than rampant tooth decay. He's a WAPF baby. Lots of Vitamin A. The only red meat he will eat is steak which we don't eat often, so I suspect zinc deficiency. This convo is helping me put more pieces together.

Good list @CLASH , I agree. And I think me breastfeeding my kids for years gave them the best start I could give them. No vaccines either. Who knows if I had not breastfed or had given vaccines maybe the one with the blood sugar issues could have been full blown diabetic at some point. So thankful for the knowledge I have on nutrition even if some things seem out of our control or we don't have the full picture quite yet.

 

[mouse]

I used to get a headache from Vitamin A, anything over 10K IU/day. After taking supplemental copper, the problem disappeared. I even tested it with several days of 50-75 K IU in a row, and had no headache.

I'm pretty sure most people who have trouble with Vitamin A are missing something, but they may not find the answer in pubmed if it's obscure or undocumented.

It reminds me of a recent paper on the hepatoxicity of EGCG finding that it was caused by copper deficiency. It might have been the missing thing for all those people with documented cases of hepatoxicity from EGCG supplements. But prior to that paper, the reason was unknown.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

@Nemo did you have good results with pyrucet if I may ask?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Yeah I got that. It sounds lovely. I just don't understand why we don't see that in practice. The wealthiest countries have the most access to vitamin A through brightly colored fruits and veggies, dairy-in particular vitamin A and D milk, fortified cereal products and vitamin supplements. And yet we are seeing autoimmune disease rising in these countries. That paper I quoted thought it must be environmental. Many believe vaccines are causing some of it from the foreign particles being injected.

Well, I don't know what wealthy country you are in, or referring to, but I can assure you, in the USA, there has been an outright WAR on retinol containing and Vitamin A fortified foods since the early 70s. All meat consumption is down, all dairy consumption is down (including fortified and whole), and all egg consumption is down. USDA guidelines for Vitamin A keep on getting revised downwards, from 25,000 IU to 10,000 IU to 5,000 IU to currently 3,000 IU. Multivitamins have contained progressively less and less retinol and carotene. And while I don't think beta carotene is the same as retinol, the paltry rise in vegetable consumption in no way can make up for the decline in retinol consumption over the past 40 years. Also, outside of your grandparents and people that follow the paleo diet, Ray Peat's work, WAPFers or Crossfitters, you probably can't name anyone who has taken a bite of liver since 1997.