Chris Kresser, Jeff Leach and the Microbiome

OP
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Seriously! Finding quality information on ANYTHING for that matter has become quest-worthy! I am so tired of reading something about...say....Fukushima one day and be totally sold on what is happening, then to be proven completely wrong the next day and find new information validating the opposite. What a drag!
 

pboy

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every study Ive read has said that probiotics either die in the stomach, or that if they do make it into the gut, will only last up to 2 weeks after you stop eating them...in other words, your body removes them as fast as you stop eating them...seems like something it doesn't want. Probiotics alter the way your gut communicates to the rest of the body. No one understands this mechanism, but it isn't said to be a good or bad thing. There are no actual studies proving any benefit of probiotics, but many stating side effects from diarreah to lactic acidosis. Probiotic foods seem to throw off my appetite regulation...I suspect they might even ferment sugars eaten in the same meal, turning some potential glucose into lactic acid. Fermenting food was a way of preservation before refrigeration...it wasn't something people did on purpose for health reasons, and now it has been this huge successful marketing campaign with literally no certain positive evidence and many with side effects found. Ive never noticed any positive effects from probitic food, and have suspected them as actually being offensive and am fairly certain they were the culprit in some occasions...particularly kombucha, saurkraut, and draft beer and wine. The whole idea of probiotics points to the state of where people looking for health are at, they will spend a lot of money, time talking about things, and even try to push the idea onto others...about something that you cant see hear taste or smell (other than rancid or sour), and that has no evidence behind it...a sad desperation, and unwillingness to look at the more obvious things, but things they would have to take personal accountability for
 

Mittir

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@pboy
I have seen a tons of studies showing benefits of probiotics and prebiotics.
Luckily, i never enjoyed the taste of fermented food.
Then again, there are numerous studies on every vitamins, minerals and
thousands of herbs showing benefits of some sort.
Many of these seem to give some sort of comfort, often
with other side effects. I agree with you that most people
look for some magic potion ,when a more potent and side effects free
simple solutions are there. I think in solving health issues primary
focus should be food. Wrong foods are the root cause of most health issues.
 

pboy

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indeed, I didn't mean to be harsh to those looking for health benefits by eating probiotics...its just that I was a victim to that way of thinking a few years ago and its frustrating to see many people fall victim and waste money, and not feel better because of it. But sadly it is the case...people have become desperate for solutions to the point of even ingesting large amounts of semi gone bad food in an attempt to solve more fundamental and less talked about issues
 

charlie

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Mittir said:
Wrong foods are the root cause of most health issues.

Hippocrates said:
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”
 
OP
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Interesting note about the lactose bacteria and stool formation. I have noticed a lack of form in my stool since re-introducing dairy back into my diet.
 
OP
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I want to edit my last statement here since I posted it. The dairy didn't seem to be the problem. It was the Great Lakes Gelatin. Since eliminating it, my stools are more "shapely". Not sure why.
 

pboy

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that's the thing...im pretty certain almost everyone besides Asians or native American maybe, actually digest milk well and they blame it wrongly. Ive seen this a million times. Its just so engrained out there in the healthworld how milk can do this and can do that, and none one can digest it and blah blah....if you look up in old textbooks from anywhere from india to Britain to the US, they recommend milk as like the last bastion food for when people are severly emaciated and cant digest anything else. Beef broth and milk are like known to be the easiest to digest and assimilate and the last hope for people that cant do anything else. And its usually recommended boiling to ease digestion....all the bs about pasteurizing is wrong also...maybe UHP, but not regular. Its MUCH easier to digest than cheese or yogurt...not even close, and whole milk is MUCH easier in terms of providing a high quality fat in its easier to assimilate freshest from rather than butter, 'grass fed butter' or whatever...its ok, but almost all the people saying that are also saying 'not to drink milk' blah blha because of the sugar, lactose, casein or whatever. Its sad man. If you buy organic milk that isn't UHP, its quite possible the easiest, safest, densest nutrtion, easiet to assimilate nutrients all the way to the internal organs, or any food that exists (interestingly it has also been known as the best food for rapidly regenerating semen...think about what else that means...like how that translates out. Semen is the last and highest refined substance the body makes once everything else is pretty satisfied)
 
OP
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Can you continue with your research on the subject pboy? I posted a question earlier in the help section, and did not receive too many responses and this is exactly what I was curious about. So I buy my milk raw from some people that live on a sustainable commune type of property. I thought raw was better because the pasteurization supposedly kills off the vitamins and whatnot. You say this is BS and I am curious why you say that. You also say organic milk. Is organic more important than grass-fed? I've heard that grass-fed is the most important aspect of the milk so I was hoping you could clarify this for me. Raw vs. Pasteurized....Organic vs. Grass fed.... Same goes for cheese. I have noticed some increases in old eczema problems after increasing my dairy intake on my hands and am curious why I might be experiencing these. Small orange bubbles under the skin that slowly rise and cause the skin to dry out and crack.
 

pboy

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cheese is much harder to digest. We get some of the fat out of it but most of the protein remains insoluble, just because of the fact there are bacterial walls and all the protein has become a salt, essentially. Some people can get more out of it than others. The flare ups are probably due to the histamines in there. Yes, pasteurization is not bad. Ultra high pasteurization is. As long as milk is only boiled gently, or heated under 212 degrees it is not only ok but often easier to digest. Raw is only better because it is entirely fresh...theres no chance for quality compromise and you can usually see the animal and know what youre getting. Most dairies these days pipe the milk directly from utter through sterilized pipes and are immediately pasteurized (160 degree, not even boiling) for only 15 seconds then immediately stored in refrigeration and sealed. Theres almost no chance of it being infected unless its a cheap operation that isn't following guidelines. Grass fed is important, but I think organic is much more important because a sick animal produces sick milk. There are a million and one ways that normal factory farms poison the animals...and likey the milk. Grass fed organic is the best. Ultra high pasteurization is bad, the milk is sprayed into extremely hot chambers where it gets to well over boiling heat and proteins and fats get damaged, and can be partially oxidized and indigestible. Also, anything other than whole milk, even a lot of whole milks, have any number of additives, vitamins, gums, or other stuff that is likely better avoided...another reason why people recommend raw milk, because it doesn't have any additives, but if you find a good quality one that doesn't use anything and you know its good quality, pasteurization is not only fine but maybe beneficial on ease of digestion, as long as its not UHTP
 
OP
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A local grocer sells Kalona Supernatural Whole Milk which has no additives and is grass-fed/organic and low-temp/small batch pasteurized. I drive out to get milk currently from this lady who has 2 healthy dairy cows a bit outside of town. I was just wondering if it was worth the effort/extra price to get my milk from her instead of getting at the grocery store. I always hear about raw milk being more "Nutrient Dense" and what not even though you say that pasteurized can be easier to digest.
 

mt_dreams

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I would first do a test run using just the kalona milk for a couple of weeks and see if you notice any difference. Since the store milk is grass fed, organic, and low temp, it knocks off 3 out of 4 of the issues regarding store milk (the 4th being homogenized). If you react well to the store milk, I would choose that due to the price & effort savings.

Raw milk wont have more nutrients aside from the thiamine & folate still being fully intact. It will have more enzymes, which may unlock more nutrients. The benefit of raw is it's un-homogenized, and the cream is a easier to digest. I've noticed weight gain drinking store bought whole/2% milk, but not when I drink raw whole milk. These days I buy un-homogenized both raw & low temp past, and skim off the cream and use mostly for ice cream.
 
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