Choline-stablized Orthosilicic Acid Stop My Hair Loss, But Should I Cont

Momentum

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About 10 years ago, in addition to a myriad of symptoms my hair started to fall by the hand fulls. I was in my mid forties. A hair loss physician asked me to try a supplement before upping the ante. The supplement was Regenemax - which at the time only contained choline-stablized orthosilicic acid (it now also contains biotin). The supplement directions state to take two capsules per day. The doc recommended 1 capsule 5 days a week. The supplement started working almost immediately to prevent hair loss, and soon I could feel new growth. Within a year my hair was growing well, and beautiful.
Over the years I tried cheaper substitutes, namely Biosil, and after about 3 months my hair started falling out. At one point Regenemax came out with a liquid version - mg for mg was about half the cost - so I switched. Again after about 3-5 months my hair started falling. This time I phoned the manufacturer because I was concerned that I may have received a counterfeit product. The rep discovered that the product was genuine, but he made the comment that he didn't understand why the company had decided on a liquid version because the active ingredient is extremely difficult to stabilize. I went back to the capsules, and the fall stopped and growth returned.
I'm concerned, due to comments on this forum, about the choline. Currently, I'm working on strengthening my veins and using MSM. I believe that using the CSOA for over 10 years has definitely improved my collagen as I've always looked younger than my age-until recently; quickly I've aged and my veins strength is very poor. I'm not sure if I should increase or decrease the CSOA, but I decreased it recently and hair loss was immediate.
 

Dave Clark

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I had used liquid Biosil for 25 years with a full head of hair and nice complexion. Used choline too. Actually, if you are concerned about negative talk on choline, you might as well know the consensus is about the same for silica.
 

Tarmander

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I think people vary enough that choline should not be labeled as good or bad, like PUFA. Choline has been shown in studies to prevent fatty liver disease on certain extreme diets. There is definitely a place for it. Now supplementing it like you have...who knows
 
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Momentum

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I had used liquid Biosil for 25 years with a full head of hair and nice complexion. Used choline too. Actually, if you are concerned about negative talk on choline, you might as well know the consensus is about the same for silica.
Well, for now I'll keep taking it because if I stop my hair falls out. What I'm concerned about is that recently I seem to be needing more, so I am adding in several Ayurveda protocols. I'm glad that BioSil worked for you. IIRC when I tried BioSil I tried it at the same dose, 1 capsule M-F and after many months I began loosing hair. So if the ingredient is difficult to stabilize maybe BioSil's wasn't as potent for me. IDK


I think people vary enough that choline should not be labeled as good or bad, like PUFA. Choline has been shown in studies to prevent fatty liver disease on certain extreme diets. There is definitely a place for it. Now supplementing it like you have...who knows
Agreed, this is all very interesting and complicated trying to regain and balance complicated health issues. I'm very thankful that CSOA stopped my hair loss when it did, but I definitely have other health issues to address. I am even wondering if it prevented further health issues as many of my symptoms appear to be a collagen deficiency problem (vascular and hypermobile EDS).
 

Tarmander

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Well, for now I'll keep taking it because if I stop my hair falls out. What I'm concerned about is that recently I seem to be needing more, so I am adding in several Ayurveda protocols. I'm glad that BioSil worked for you. IIRC when I tried BioSil I tried it at the same dose, 1 capsule M-F and after many months I began loosing hair. So if the ingredient is difficult to stabilize maybe BioSil's wasn't as potent for me. IDK



Agreed, this is all very interesting and complicated trying to regain and balance complicated health issues. I'm very thankful that CSOA stopped my hair loss when it did, but I definitely have other health issues to address. I am even wondering if it prevented further health issues as many of my symptoms appear to be a collagen deficiency problem (vascular and hypermobile EDS).
ahh, well if you have EDS then I am sure you have read about possible acetylcholine deficiencies...in which case Alpha GPC, Citicholine, and whatever else would be right up your alley.
 

baccheion

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There's monomethylsilanetriol (Orgono Living Silica). I like the MSM + silicon/monomethylsilanetriol + vitamin C combo. 4:1 MSM:C.

Silicon is said to increase hydroxyproline.

Do you also take gelatin to maintain a good glycine:methionine ratio?

Some forms/sources of silicon are said to cause vitamin B1 deficiency.
 
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Momentum

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ahh, well if you have EDS then I am sure you have read about possible acetylcholine deficiencies...in which case Alpha GPC, Citicholine, and whatever else would be right up your alley.
I don't have a confirmed EDS diagnosis, yet, but OMG, I fit all the symptoms - along with all of the thiamine deficiency symptoms. I will look into the other things you've listed. (I do have several auto-immune issues and confirmed Lyme with co's.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe thiamine supplementation will increase acetylcholine?

There's monomethylsilanetriol (Orgono Living Silica). I like the MSM + silicon/monomethylsilanetriol + vitamin C combo. 4:1 MSM:C.

Silicon is said to increase hydroxyproline.

Do you also take gelatin to maintain a good glycine:methionine ratio?

Some forms/sources of silicon are said to cause vitamin B1 deficiency.
That is so funny, my next tab over is the Orgono's site! I've only found two retailers that sell MMST; Orgono and Search Results for “mmst” | Cyto-Matrix (which is only available through professionals). Not sure if one is better than the other.

It's starting to become more clear, years ago I was taking 2 tsp of MSM crystals (along with vitamin C). The very first week I was picking up so much more thyroid hormone that I went off my thyroid meds for about a week. So it definitely cleared out/up my receptors. Then after about 12-15 months my veins became amazing. I had been a phlebotomists nightmare, at one point I had to have a picc line, but after a while on MSM my veins were treat. After a few years, and still suffering other health issues, I stopped the MSM. Just got tired of gagging down the bitter powder. Now I'm realizing that was a mistake. I'm back on the MSM/C and filling 000 capsules once a week so I don't have to gag it down. I'm glad to hear you like the MSM+MMST+C. I just need to get the MMST ordered ;-)
Tell me more about the glycine:methionine ratio please. I've been taking 1-2 teaspoons of glycine daily for about 4 months as per Dr Deitrich Klinghardt's detox protocol; glycine detoxifies glyphosate. He recommends 2 teaspoons for up to 6 months, then drop down to 1/4-1/2 teaspoon for life. I haven't been taking gelatin, but I do have a bag of nice grass fed beef gelatin in the cupboard.

Yes, MMST is better absorbed according to one study.
This one one impressive study I read today: ughhh, thought I left the tab open, but I guess I didn't.

I think I need to get some of Haidut's magnoil :): Pretty sure I'm very low.
 

baccheion

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I don't have a confirmed EDS diagnosis, yet, but OMG, I fit all the symptoms - along with all of the thiamine deficiency symptoms. I will look into the other things you've listed. (I do have several auto-immune issues and confirmed Lyme with co's.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe thiamine supplementation will increase acetylcholine?


That is so funny, my next tab over is the Orgono's site! I've only found two retailers that sell MMST; Orgono and Search Results for “mmst” | Cyto-Matrix (which is only available through professionals). Not sure if one is better than the other.

It's starting to become more clear, years ago I was taking 2 tsp of MSM crystals (along with vitamin C). The very first week I was picking up so much more thyroid hormone that I went off my thyroid meds for about a week. So it definitely cleared out/up my receptors. Then after about 12-15 months my veins became amazing. I had been a phlebotomists nightmare, at one point I had to have a picc line, but after a while on MSM my veins were treat. After a few years, and still suffering other health issues, I stopped the MSM. Just got tired of gagging down the bitter powder. Now I'm realizing that was a mistake. I'm back on the MSM/C and filling 000 capsules once a week so I don't have to gag it down. I'm glad to hear you like the MSM+MMST+C. I just need to get the MMST ordered ;-)
Tell me more about the glycine:methionine ratio please. I've been taking 1-2 teaspoons of glycine daily for about 4 months as per Dr Deitrich Klinghardt's detox protocol; glycine detoxifies glyphosate. He recommends 2 teaspoons for up to 6 months, then drop down to 1/4-1/2 teaspoon for life. I haven't been taking gelatin, but I do have a bag of nice grass fed beef gelatin in the cupboard.


This one one impressive study I read today: ughhh, thought I left the tab open, but I guess I didn't.

I think I need to get some of Haidut's magnoil :): Pretty sure I'm very low.
They sell it on iHerb and on Amazon.

The ratio was mentioned by some on the forum. Another way is to get a 3-4:1 glycine:methionine ratio. Gelatin is used to meet the ratio or it combined with fattier cuts of red meat.
 

Tarmander

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I don't have a confirmed EDS diagnosis, yet, but OMG, I fit all the symptoms - along with all of the thiamine deficiency symptoms. I will look into the other things you've listed. (I do have several auto-immune issues and confirmed Lyme with co's.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe thiamine supplementation will increase acetylcholine?
Not sure.
 

Elie

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what about simpler forms of silicon, like bamboo or horsetail silicon. They are cheaper. Do they work just the same?
 

revenant

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what about simpler forms of silicon, like bamboo or horsetail silicon. They are cheaper. Do they work just the same?

They are not really absorbed properly.

Btw beer is one of the most bioavailable sources of orthosilicic acid. Not sure whether these supplements are all that useful if you ever drink beer, unless this Regenemax product really does have an advantage over the others.

According to one study, beer contains a little less than 20 mg of silicon per liter on average, regardless of the type or geographic origin of the beer (link). The actual amount varies between 9 and 39 mg per liter.

About 80% of the silicon is in the form of orthosilicic acid, which is the bioavailable form. The absorption of silicon from beer is 55%. This means that a can of beer (330 mL) contains, on average, about 7 mg of silicon. Of this, about 5.6 mg is orthosilicic acid, about 3.5 mg of which is absorbed.

BioSil, JarroSil & Beer – Silicon Experiment Conclusion
 
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Momentum

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I don't know. Perhaps absorption is lower with plant based sources, but even at a higher dose its cheaper and the reviews are overall quite positive. see this link Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Swanson Bamboo Extract for Hair and Nails Silica Supplement Supports Collagen 300 mg 60 Veggie Capsules
@drk I've been using the Swanson, more for chelating, but it hasn't helped really with anything. Maybe for those who just need a tad more help it does. I did purchase the Orgono product and started it three days ago. I really like that it is totally clean - silica and water (trying to move to liquids without fillers or excipiants, or very clean supplements). Plus look at the comparison of bio-availability. I'd have to take a lot more Swanson's for equivalency and that's a lot of extra stuff I don't want. Product but thanks for posting!
 

Elie

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@drk I've been using the Swanson, more for chelating, but it hasn't helped really with anything. Maybe for those who just need a tad more help it does. I did purchase the Orgono product and started it three days ago. I really like that it is totally clean - silica and water (trying to move to liquids without fillers or excipiants, or very clean supplements). Plus look at the comparison of bio-availability. I'd have to take a lot more Swanson's for equivalency and that's a lot of extra stuff I don't want. Product but thanks for posting!

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts on this
 

baccheion

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Borz

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I had used liquid Biosil for 25 years with a full head of hair and nice complexion. Used choline too. Actually, if you are concerned about negative talk on choline, you might as well know the consensus is about the same for silica.
there is no consensus about ortho-silicic acid here, only about silica/silicon dioxide being bad, which is used as an excipient in supplements/drugs. Ortho-silicic acid and silica/silicon dioxide are very different things.

And there is no negative talk about dietary choline here, maybe it’s importance isn’t talked about much, but I don’t think anybody here bashes it. Eggs and liver are recommended here, the richest sources of choline. The negative talk is about *excessive* Acetylcholine (a neurotransmitter), which isn’t the same thing as dietary choline.
 
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Elie

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I think there is a difference between inhaling and ingesting silica.
If i am not mistaken safety concerns were raised about inhaling it.
Rich sources include cucumbers, beer, plants such as horsetail and bamboo.
Choline has no effect on hair growth and appearance. It is there to prevent gelling, which reduces absorption.
 

Inaut

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I used to add diatomaceous earth to water, shake it up, let the sediment settle at the bottom and then drink the water. Apparently, it is very rich in orthosilicic acid as well. You can keep reusing the diatomaceous earth until it disappears.
 

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