-
By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.
-
Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter
-
Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...
Rest the rest of this post by clicking here
-
The Forum is transitioning to a subscription-based membership model - Click Here To Read
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
Choline: An Essential Nutrient for Public Health that we’re not getting enough of in our diet
- Thread starter David PS
- Start date
-
- Tags
- acetylcholine choline
Some people, including me, have a positive CBS gene mutation that increases the activity of this CBS gene by a lot, i think ifi reliever correctly it can work up to 10 times faster than normal or so.
With mthfr and MRT genes i have that reduce those genes in my case, and with low betain and cooling dietary intake, year still symptoms of overmethymation, no wonder with all that my homocysteine was cleared using the suox gene, known to use the molybdenum stores of the body.
Do you know what is your DNA on the mthfr, MRT and CBS genes ?
With mthfr and MRT genes i have that reduce those genes in my case, and with low betain and cooling dietary intake, year still symptoms of overmethymation, no wonder with all that my homocysteine was cleared using the suox gene, known to use the molybdenum stores of the body.
Do you know what is your DNA on the mthfr, MRT and CBS genes ?
Maybe i took a few molybdenum pills, not every day, 2 months before i started taking zinc and molybdenum daily in June.
Just a few pills now and then i think allowed me to tolerate that many eggs since June.
But before i took molybdenum, maybe 2 months before i took lots of p5p B6, because i started to have sciatic nerve paralysis on one leg on top of other symptoms.
That B6 with B1 helped with that static nerve somehow, but after some weeks it really made all my symptoms much worse, especially egg intolerance, overmethymation, etc.
That's when I researched all my symptoms and came to thinking might be because of molybdenum, and indeed agree taking molybdenum i was able to digest eggs.
But i still had overmethymation symptoms, and low acetylcholine (but not as severe as before taking B6).
That's why I took zinc with lots eggs
I remember, before i started with zinc and lots of eggs, i took one single pill of DMAE, with B5.
That was the worst day of my life, i almost fainted in the street, i was feeling like was going to die, with extreme headache and symptoms of too much acetylcholine.
I struggled all that day with bag breathing and supplements like theanine.
Then i started zinc and tons of eggs.
After 2 or 3 weeks of zinc and eggs, i did again that experiment with dmae and B5, but only got mild headache, nothing special.
Then i increased zinc, switched to picolinate from bisgycinate. That was not good experience, picolinate was much stronger and it started to lower my copper and dopamine.
I was lethargic. I increased zinc even more from 30mg to 60mg. well, after a week or two i had to stop everything and had to take liquid copper supplements every 3h to not feel letargic for about a week (pills did not worked as much, liver worked after a few days but not as fast as liquid copper)
Now i think I'm struggling a bit with low dopamine but not as much, and I prefer that than going back to before... I think it's more caused by high prolactin than by higher than before acetylcholine.
Need to find a way to raise dopamine without taking too much copper (since i stopped zinc and manganese, i only take eggs now).
I had many days with headache in the beginning, when I started with zinc and eggs.
First i tried to calm that with GABA, theanine, camomile romaine, taurine.
All that worked on the anxiety and fast heartbeat part, but not on the headache and migraine itself.
So I switched to coq10. This i think worked better on headache and migraine with B2 added later and pqq. But it didn't felt good on my digestion so i only took it when i really had more headache not every day.
I didn't need to take any of the GABA like substances, after discovering coq10, that seem to calm also the anxiety to some degree or at least make it less of a worry more easy to ignore.
In time all this resolved itself alone so I don't need to take this any longer now while still eating lots of eggs.
So now I'm just wondering how to raise dopamine without raising anxiety and norepinephrine, and how to lower maybe prolactin (i don't know my levels of prolactin, i know that my thyroid blood test of TSH was 3.8, almost 4 the maximum considered normal here, in February when I went to the emergency room - they didn't found any reason why i was feeling that bad in February by the way and labeled me hipocondriac)
I don't have symptoms of low thyroid by the way, on the contrary i have very good temperature and tolerance to cold, so I trying understand why TSH is that high.
Maybe prolactin is high too and that would explain everything.
I still eat eggs, i don't want to go back to before, with low acetylcholine, that was much worse.
Just a few pills now and then i think allowed me to tolerate that many eggs since June.
But before i took molybdenum, maybe 2 months before i took lots of p5p B6, because i started to have sciatic nerve paralysis on one leg on top of other symptoms.
That B6 with B1 helped with that static nerve somehow, but after some weeks it really made all my symptoms much worse, especially egg intolerance, overmethymation, etc.
That's when I researched all my symptoms and came to thinking might be because of molybdenum, and indeed agree taking molybdenum i was able to digest eggs.
But i still had overmethymation symptoms, and low acetylcholine (but not as severe as before taking B6).
That's why I took zinc with lots eggs
I remember, before i started with zinc and lots of eggs, i took one single pill of DMAE, with B5.
That was the worst day of my life, i almost fainted in the street, i was feeling like was going to die, with extreme headache and symptoms of too much acetylcholine.
I struggled all that day with bag breathing and supplements like theanine.
Then i started zinc and tons of eggs.
After 2 or 3 weeks of zinc and eggs, i did again that experiment with dmae and B5, but only got mild headache, nothing special.
Then i increased zinc, switched to picolinate from bisgycinate. That was not good experience, picolinate was much stronger and it started to lower my copper and dopamine.
I was lethargic. I increased zinc even more from 30mg to 60mg. well, after a week or two i had to stop everything and had to take liquid copper supplements every 3h to not feel letargic for about a week (pills did not worked as much, liver worked after a few days but not as fast as liquid copper)
Now i think I'm struggling a bit with low dopamine but not as much, and I prefer that than going back to before... I think it's more caused by high prolactin than by higher than before acetylcholine.
Need to find a way to raise dopamine without taking too much copper (since i stopped zinc and manganese, i only take eggs now).
I had many days with headache in the beginning, when I started with zinc and eggs.
First i tried to calm that with GABA, theanine, camomile romaine, taurine.
All that worked on the anxiety and fast heartbeat part, but not on the headache and migraine itself.
So I switched to coq10. This i think worked better on headache and migraine with B2 added later and pqq. But it didn't felt good on my digestion so i only took it when i really had more headache not every day.
I didn't need to take any of the GABA like substances, after discovering coq10, that seem to calm also the anxiety to some degree or at least make it less of a worry more easy to ignore.
In time all this resolved itself alone so I don't need to take this any longer now while still eating lots of eggs.
So now I'm just wondering how to raise dopamine without raising anxiety and norepinephrine, and how to lower maybe prolactin (i don't know my levels of prolactin, i know that my thyroid blood test of TSH was 3.8, almost 4 the maximum considered normal here, in February when I went to the emergency room - they didn't found any reason why i was feeling that bad in February by the way and labeled me hipocondriac)
I don't have symptoms of low thyroid by the way, on the contrary i have very good temperature and tolerance to cold, so I trying understand why TSH is that high.
Maybe prolactin is high too and that would explain everything.
I still eat eggs, i don't want to go back to before, with low acetylcholine, that was much worse.
Last edited:
And I forgot about something that happened after i started taking zinc in June
About July i started having a lot of skin itching on my back, hands, a bit everywhere but especially on the back of my hands and there especially on the back of my wrist both hands.
Then the scratching/itching want away after a few weeks excepting on the back of my hands and back of the second finger after the small one, both hands.
That became like dermatitis, with skin peeling and small wounds.
It lasted for about 2 months, and all the skin was much more better quality after that, so it was some sort of complete skin replacement, but it was extremely itchy and painful for a few weeks.
Now the back of my hand is like baby skin, and itching is gone entirely.
Also the skin on my back is softer, every place we're the skin is more thick is now softer even in places were there was no dermatitis or peeling, only moderate itching.
About July i started having a lot of skin itching on my back, hands, a bit everywhere but especially on the back of my hands and there especially on the back of my wrist both hands.
Then the scratching/itching want away after a few weeks excepting on the back of my hands and back of the second finger after the small one, both hands.
That became like dermatitis, with skin peeling and small wounds.
It lasted for about 2 months, and all the skin was much more better quality after that, so it was some sort of complete skin replacement, but it was extremely itchy and painful for a few weeks.
Now the back of my hand is like baby skin, and itching is gone entirely.
Also the skin on my back is softer, every place we're the skin is more thick is now softer even in places were there was no dermatitis or peeling, only moderate itching.
And also around every finger of my hand i have or had until recently, skin peeling around both sides of each nail, had to cut them all the time.
I don't know how is called, i had that for years, and it seems to have resolved or improved much in the past few weeks or months.
I'm wondering if that was caused by zinc deficiency.
All MD i saw in the past told was because i was cutting them, just let the skin go off by itself, otherwise you will further extend the area... Well, i tried and it always caused accidental scratching so i had no choice than cut all dead skin as soon as possible.
I wonder if this will go away now on the long term or if it's only a coincidence.
I don't know how is called, i had that for years, and it seems to have resolved or improved much in the past few weeks or months.
I'm wondering if that was caused by zinc deficiency.
All MD i saw in the past told was because i was cutting them, just let the skin go off by itself, otherwise you will further extend the area... Well, i tried and it always caused accidental scratching so i had no choice than cut all dead skin as soon as possible.
I wonder if this will go away now on the long term or if it's only a coincidence.
Just for the record.
I changed something last night, and I had very good restoring night and today feeling much more motivated and less lethargic.
What i did was taking 12mg p5p B6 and 800ui vitamin e in top of what I usually take in the past few week or two.
What i usually take this days is 1mg cypro, melatonin, copper 2g, b complex 150%rda with regular B6 not the p5p one (i take this every day since June).
Now, vitamin E, i already tried occasionally and it seemed to help but not as much, so i think it is the p5p form of B6 that helped.
I keep taking copper since it worked so well this summer to solve extreme lethargy, but it only worked for a few weeks, and now it's doing nothing when i take it to raise my dopamine levels and reduce the residual lethargy i have.
Anyway, just some anecdotal experience, maybe it's relevant or not, but it makes sense, cause p5p is one of the things that raise dopamine, i don't know why I kept dosing copper even when it's not working any longer.
I changed something last night, and I had very good restoring night and today feeling much more motivated and less lethargic.
What i did was taking 12mg p5p B6 and 800ui vitamin e in top of what I usually take in the past few week or two.
What i usually take this days is 1mg cypro, melatonin, copper 2g, b complex 150%rda with regular B6 not the p5p one (i take this every day since June).
Now, vitamin E, i already tried occasionally and it seemed to help but not as much, so i think it is the p5p form of B6 that helped.
I keep taking copper since it worked so well this summer to solve extreme lethargy, but it only worked for a few weeks, and now it's doing nothing when i take it to raise my dopamine levels and reduce the residual lethargy i have.
Anyway, just some anecdotal experience, maybe it's relevant or not, but it makes sense, cause p5p is one of the things that raise dopamine, i don't know why I kept dosing copper even when it's not working any longer.
This is how i see acetylcholine.
Plants need red light for energy and growth. Blue light is aggressive. Actually Ray speak about plants need blue light to be able to have strength and grow up. Otherwise they just grow on ground and don't get stiff.
So blue light is excitatory and stressful, but it's the kind of stress that, with enaught red light and water allows the plant to grow strong.
The same way, acetylcholine is the kind of excitatory substance that is good, when balanced with enaught metabolism and dopamine.
Acetylcholine is similar to blue light metaphorically speaking, and i do believe peat's views against it is based on his own high histamine/low methylation "genetics" or history. It's biased, overmethylators have low histamine and don't feel the same effects from acetylcholine, often they can also be low on acetylcholine too. Peat seem to be biased by his own way of being, prince to food allergies, high histamine etc. Many in this forum seem to be undermethylators too, and lost of those who are not I've seen comments that they complain a lot about peat diet that deplete acetylcholine, making them sick like you see on the vitamin a toxicity thread for example (vitamin a from liver activates copper witch will deplete zinc and cause acetylcholine "deficiency"). I know peat eats oysters, that could be why he never experienced problems with low acetylcholine (besides being someone with usual high histamine, low fat and low methylation).
That's why acetylcholine seem to reveal an already existing low dopamine, that's why it causes depression, it does not cause depression on it's own. That's why serotonin, that deplete acetylcholine, is considered anti depressive, it just lowers acetylcholine and it's hiding a low dopamine state, it's not raising dopamine or solve the depression, it just hide it by lowering acetylcholine so that the low dopamine state is not perceived any longer by the subject as critical. I bet it raises glutamate activity too witch is worse than acetylcholine when it comes to excitatory stress state.
Plants need red light for energy and growth. Blue light is aggressive. Actually Ray speak about plants need blue light to be able to have strength and grow up. Otherwise they just grow on ground and don't get stiff.
So blue light is excitatory and stressful, but it's the kind of stress that, with enaught red light and water allows the plant to grow strong.
The same way, acetylcholine is the kind of excitatory substance that is good, when balanced with enaught metabolism and dopamine.
Acetylcholine is similar to blue light metaphorically speaking, and i do believe peat's views against it is based on his own high histamine/low methylation "genetics" or history. It's biased, overmethylators have low histamine and don't feel the same effects from acetylcholine, often they can also be low on acetylcholine too. Peat seem to be biased by his own way of being, prince to food allergies, high histamine etc. Many in this forum seem to be undermethylators too, and lost of those who are not I've seen comments that they complain a lot about peat diet that deplete acetylcholine, making them sick like you see on the vitamin a toxicity thread for example (vitamin a from liver activates copper witch will deplete zinc and cause acetylcholine "deficiency"). I know peat eats oysters, that could be why he never experienced problems with low acetylcholine (besides being someone with usual high histamine, low fat and low methylation).
That's why acetylcholine seem to reveal an already existing low dopamine, that's why it causes depression, it does not cause depression on it's own. That's why serotonin, that deplete acetylcholine, is considered anti depressive, it just lowers acetylcholine and it's hiding a low dopamine state, it's not raising dopamine or solve the depression, it just hide it by lowering acetylcholine so that the low dopamine state is not perceived any longer by the subject as critical. I bet it raises glutamate activity too witch is worse than acetylcholine when it comes to excitatory stress state.
Last edited:
OP
David PS
Member
Another choline reference came across my desk.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I like to remind myself about getting enough choline.
Choline: The Underconsumed and Underappreciated Essential Nutrient
Choline has been recognized as an essential nutrient by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academies of Medicine since 1998. Its metabolites have structural, metabolic, and regulatory roles within the body. Humans can endogenously produce small ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I like to remind myself about getting enough choline.
Thanks David great stuff. I just need to keep adding eggs to my smoothiesAnother choline reference came across my desk.
Choline: The Underconsumed and Underappreciated Essential Nutrient
Choline has been recognized as an essential nutrient by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academies of Medicine since 1998. Its metabolites have structural, metabolic, and regulatory roles within the body. Humans can endogenously produce small ...
I like to remind myself about getting enough choline.
Spartan300
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2018
- Messages
- 598
Yes!! Even a lower intensity workout causes insomnia and it's this I believe is compromising recovery.
Currently I've not worked out for around 3 weeks and sleep is now hugely improved.
Neither SHBG or free T have been included in previous bloodwork. What's your thoughts here?
Apologies I missed the question when you posted but just rereading after refocusing on choline.
Consider testing DHEA-S, ACTH, LH, FSH, adrenaline, free T, E2, SHBG. Also cortisol curve. Right before the blood test in the morning do some pushups to see better how it affects those markers. Twenty pushups should be enough.
You can also test if high dose vitamin C helps with those symptoms.
redsun
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2018
- Messages
- 3,013
I'm curious what you experience when you are trying to sleep after exercising that day. Are you laying in bed and just feel wide awake and not tired at all? Is your pulse heavy and/or feels fast when trying to sleep?
Also zinc, copper, ceruloplasmin.
Spartan300
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2018
- Messages
- 598
It's a struggle to gets some of those things tested in the UK but previous tests showed above ref range DHEA-s and above ref range cortisol on a 9am test.
Total T was just under top of range as was dht but I don't exhibit the associated traits you'd expect...
I have been taking vitamin c before bed for about a week and I think it's helping.
Just wide awake, I'm not conscious of my heartbeat particularly. When I do sleep I'll wake aroind 3am and struggle to get back to sleep.
Curious about those too but not previously tested.
redsun
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2018
- Messages
- 3,013
Getting more choline did help in my experience when I had this wide awake feeling at night which always coincided with insomnia. It helped me feel sleepy and also helped me stay sleepy if I were to wake up in the middle of the night it wouldn't be difficult to fall back asleep.
Spartan300
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2018
- Messages
- 598
Fingers crossed, I'll stick with the choline for a bit but dropping exercise has already made a massive difference.
Hoping I can get back to it before too long
Hoping I can get back to it before too long
FitnessMike
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2020
- Messages
- 1,676
ever since I increased choline, 3-4 eggs + 1x 400mg phosphatydilholine on top of lower fat diet, my liver enzymes got low really quick.
OP
David PS
Member
FitnessMike
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2020
- Messages
- 1,676
Poached eggs for the dinner, here i coooome.
Six yolks a day without a fail will help you sail
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
Similar threads
