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Discussion in 'Meat' started by narouz, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. narouz

    narouz Member

    Reconcile this statement by Peat...


    ...with this list of PUFA in foods...

    Extremely low Omega 6 Sources (Less than 2%)

    Coconut oil 1.9%
    Prime rib 1.8%
    Whole milk 1.8%
    Half and Half 1.8%
    Ground Beef 1.6%
    Macadamia Nuts 1.6%
    Chicken without skin 1.4%
    Lamb 1.4%

    Maybe Omega 6 content is not a good way to estimate PUFA content?
    Maybe the PUFAs in chicken are all in the skin?
  2. charlie

    charlie Administrator

    Well isn't that interesting? I would love to be able to eat more chicken, but now I really shun away from it. Eggs have MUCH more then chicken if you go by the list thats here. Very very interesting. :confused
  3. narouz

    narouz Member

    I know, right? :)
  4. narouz

    narouz Member

    Reinforces Peat about chickens reflecting their diet

  5. narouz

    narouz Member

    Some thoughts on chicken

    I'll have to track down Peat's comments,
    but I have it well stored in my head
    (because it was rather traumatic discovering that my new life as a Peatatarian
    would not include my beloved
    and formerly widely viewed as healthful
    that he has said that one:
    1. can't eat chicken more than once every 10 days without thyroid suppression
    (presumably from PUFA content).
    2. the skin is obscenely rife with PUFA
    3. but also that chickens reflect their diet
    (and so: what if you can buy "the Peat Perfect Chicken,"
    fed NO artificial diet
    and ONLY eating by foraging in expansive, organic farmland?)
  6. narouz

    narouz Member

    PUFA includes more than the Omega 6's

    PUFA includes more than the Omega 6's.

    The list at the top of the thread is JUST about Omega 6's,
    which are viewed by many as the Core 'O Evil PUFA.
    But we need to research what Peat has to say on the subject.
    What does Peat mean, exactly, when he uses the term PUFA?
  7. charlie

    charlie Administrator

    According to that study above we might as well just forget about chicken again. Unless you grow them yourselves and pasture them or you know the farmer who grows them and you can see exactly how he/she grows them. :2cents

    We definitely should try to figure out what the complete scope of the word PUFA means.
  8. narouz

    narouz Member

    Pondering the PUFAs

    Just to, hopefully, push this exploration of PUFAs along a bit,
    here is a list of the Omega 9 PUFAs, according to Wikipedia.

    It is a little confusing
    because the general category of PUFA
    (or Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids)
    includes Omega 3, Omega 6, and Omega 9.

    But, of the Omega 9 PUFAs,
    notice that all are monounsaturates
    except for Mead Acid which is a polyunsaturate.
    (So why are "monounsaturates" included within the category of "polyunsaturates"...? :roll: )

    Anyhow, here's the list:

    I have read Dr. Peat write positively about some of the Omega-9s:
    I believe he has said that Oleic Acid is found in olive oil,
    and has some positive, antioxidant properties.
    And I think he has some good things to say about Mead Acid too,
    though I can't remember what it was exactly.

    But I also think I remember Peat saying that
    we don't need to consume those Omega 9s (which are PUFAs too, presumably)
    because we can make them ourselves.

    Here is a quote from his The Great Fish Oil Experiment

    So, we can make those Omega-9s ourselves from sugar, coconut oil, or oleic acid (in olive oil I believe).
    We don't even have to eat any kind of oil to get our needed Omega-9s,
    because we can make them from sugars.

    As for the other Omega-9s on the list,
    some would clearly seem to be bad.
    For example, consider this excerpt (from Wiki) on Erucic acid:

    Whenever Peat refers to oils being good drying agents,
    as in paint applications, he is usually trying to stress
    how bad they are for human food consumption.

    So, anyhow:
    It seems pretty clear that
    by PUFA
    Dr. Peat means the Omega-3s, Omega-6s, and (most of the) Omega 9s.

    That chart we have posted somewhere here
    is a chart of
    only Omega-6 content.

    Maybe chicken has a ton of Omega-3's and 9's...?
    Maybe the chart is not accurate?
    Maybe all of the PUFAs are concentrated in the chicken SKIN
    and the chart is measuring only chicken MEAT?
  9. narouz

    narouz Member

    A PUFA Food Content List

    Here is a link to a list of PUFA food sources:

    Sources of Polyunsaturated fatty acids

    It's too long to post(?)
    and I've just glanced through it...
    rather baffling in respect to Chicken.... :roll:
  10. narouz

    narouz Member

    This chicken and the Peat thing...

    I'm really tilting toward thinking that Peat may've inadvertently
    demonized Chicken.
    I'm thinking of his remark that seems so decisive,
    how does it go...?
    approximately and not nearly as eloquently:

    "If you eat a lot of chicken as your main protein source you will experience a suppression of thyroid function."

    Add to that his general operating principle with animals as food sources:
    ruminants are good.

    Chickens are not ruminant.
    Furthermore, even though Peat also said chicken meat will reflect their food sources,
    it is damn hard to get chickens who have not been fed feed--
    and feed which is not soy or corn based.

    But still...if you check the food chart,
    it lists chicken without the SKIN as very low in PUFA.

    I'm really wondering if the primary evil of chicken lies mainly in its skin.

    But then you have to balance that with the fact that
    we should not be eating high amounts of muscle meats of any source.

    But what about boneless chicken once in a while?
    Apparently, if you believe the chart, only as harmful as steak or lamb, approximately.
    And it makes delicious stock.
    Wouldn't that be healthy?
    Especially from excellent, health food store chicken bones?
  11. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

    I dont think he would demonize chickens without a reason. But as was suggested, I think he is probably referring to skin on AND incorrectly raised chickens, rather than low fat cust from 'real' pastured chickens. I think Peat keeps his own chickens as I have asked him questions on how to maximized saturated fat content of eggs via feeding (for our own newly bought chickens) and he knows his stuff and talks about how they scratch around etc.
  12. BingDing

    BingDing Member

    You guys might be thinking too hard. ;) The quote is that if you make chicken your main protein source then... So keep chicken protein below 49% of total protein, or keep chicken protein below milk protein, or the like. That's all I can make of the plain meaning of the words.

    Nutrition Data has n-3, n-6, and total PUFA for a remarkable number of foods, choose 100g serving and scroll down to the bottom of the result page. Chicken breast, meat only, roasted has .8g PUFA per 100g of serving of meat, or .8%. Granted I'm new to Peat World and still on probation but it's hard to believe 4g of chicken breast is PUFA poison. Chicken skin with fat may well be. :2cents

    PUFAs are fatty acids with two or more double bonds. Here is a pretty understandable explanation of the science, just ignore the nonsense about saturated fat and heart disease.

    Figure 3 of this Chris Masterjohn article explains how free radicals oxidize PUFAs creating a lipid peroxide and another free radical, that starts the chain reaction of electron transfers that RP talks about.
  13. charlie

    charlie Administrator

    I am thinking because they are "grain fed" that would might cause problems to along with the PUFA's. Of course, I could be wrong.
  14. narouz

    narouz Member

    Yes, BingDing,
    I hear where you're coming from.
    I'll check the link. Thanks.

    At the moment,
    maybe because I'm scared of iron (in which red meat is much higher than chicken),
    I'm eating a couple ounces of chicken like twice a week.
    Really: I'm talking like a couple of ounces per serving.
    I'm proceeding under the idea that most of the PUFA is in the chicken skin.
    So I'm eating skinless breast (that is the lowest fat part of the chicken, right?)

    Now...there are other reasons to avoid chicken in large amounts.
    It is a muscle meat,
    and Peat doesn't like a lot of muscle meat, from whatever source: anti-metabolic.
  15. charlie

    charlie Administrator

    Anything to eat that chicken, huh narzouz? :rolling
  16. narouz

    narouz Member

    I would think the grain diet is precisely what contributes to the chickens' PUFAness.
    Now...how PUFA-y would chickens be with NO grain diet,
    only natural worms and bugs and stuff...?
    They're not ruminant.
    Peat says they will reflect their diet.
  17. narouz

    narouz Member

    Yeah...I love me some chicken. :oops:
    If I can have a tiny bit...it helps....
  18. BingDing

    BingDing Member

    Breast is definitely the lowest fat part. For comparison, cheddar cheese has more PUFA than chicken breast. Agreed about the high iron and muscle meat.
  19. Birdie

    Birdie Member

    While I've still got it in mind, I was listening to an interview recently where Ray spoke of using a chicken for stock. I should have written down the reference, but I was in the bathtub.

    I was surprised because I've heard him only talk about problems with chickens before. He said they have a high metabolism which helps. I won't say more because I can't remember accurately.
  20. narouz

    narouz Member

    Do remember what interview, Birdie?
  21. Birdie

    Birdie Member

    No. That's the problem. I'll try to retrace by looking at the list.
    I looked. I think it was Autoimmune and Movement Disorders, Pol & Sci.
  22. narouz

    narouz Member

    I'll give it a listen.
  23. Birdie

    Birdie Member

    I just had it on. The chicken comes in at the 50 minute mark just when you think there is no chance he'll talk about it. But I see that he was talking about rightly grown chicken. Not your grain fed birds.
  24. WilltoBelieve

    WilltoBelieve Member

    To remove all the fat a Chicken can be prepared by cooking in water. The fat rises to the top and can be then removed. Use plenty of water and cook for a long time... one can arrive at a relatively fat free conclusion. I add some vinegar to the water and approach the process as if making bone broth. Once Im satisfied that the fat has been reduced as muchas possible, I then boil off some of the water so to produce a rich dense stew. I put the rendered fat on my compost pile... I eat this kind of stew about about once per week sometimes less.
  25. Birdie

    Birdie Member

    I don't think there is a problem with grass fed chicken as long as it's not our main source of protein. Also, Ray has criticized the habit of removing the skin. I assume he is still talking about what he considers safe, grass fed chickens, and that it's better to eat the skin there. He tells us to eat the pork skins (rinds), and to try to eat more than just muscle meat. That includes skin.

    I cannot find grass fed chickens here. And the more I get into this Way, the less meat or fowl I eat. I'm busy with eggs, fruit, gelatin, milk, coffee, prepping my calves liver... No time for all the other cooking I used to do.

    Also, as Ray says, when you eat a lean cut of meat, you get a good amount of fat from that.

    These are just things I've picked up in interviews. Not saying anyone has to pay attention but it helps me to clarify when I write, so I do! And sometimes I find when I write that I'm not clear on something. That helps me too.
  26. gretchen

    gretchen Member

    I've never felt good on chicken. It's also not that flavorful no matter how you cook it. If you marinate it, that helps. Chicken soup is nice once in a while, but I don't miss it.

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