CFS Pathology Tied To Increased Blood Levels Of Endotoxin

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
After more than a decade of denial that the "mysterious" condition CFS even exists as a physiological state, mainstream medicine may be warming up to the fact that it is not simply in patients' heads. This latest study found changes in patients' microbiome as well as elevatd levels of endotoxin in the blood. Note that even the authors of the study call the idea of CFS being purely psychological "ridiculous".

Microbiome
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160627160939.htm

"...Now, for the first time, Cornell University researchers report they have identified biological markers of the disease in gut bacteria and inflammatory microbial agents in the blood. In a study published June 23 in the journal Microbiome, the team describes how they correctly diagnosed myalgic encephalomyeletis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) in 83 percent of patients through stool samples and blood work, offering a noninvasive diagnosis and a step toward understanding the cause of the disease. "Our work demonstrates that the gut bacterial microbiome in chronic fatigue syndrome patients isn't normal, perhaps leading to gastrointestinal and inflammatory symptoms in victims of the disease," said Maureen Hanson, the Liberty Hyde Bailey Professor in the Department of Molecular Biology and Genetics at Cornell and the paper's senior author. "Furthermore, our detection of a biological abnormality provides further evidence against the ridiculous concept that the disease is psychological in origin."
 

Mufasa

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
624
Interesting, my CFS completely went away after doing a Ray Peat inspired diet since February. I haven't taken any probiotics though. Maybe the microbiome can balance itself if you keep temps high?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Interesting, my CFS completely went away after doing a Ray Peat inspired diet since February. I haven't taken any probiotics though. Maybe the microbiome can balance itself if you keep temps high?

It does get rebalanced, and supplemental thyroid, cascara/emodin, taurine, glycine, etc have all been shown to help with the rebalancing towards less pathogenic bacteria, not to mention their effects on opposing endotoxin.
 

Mufasa

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
624
It does get rebalanced, and supplemental thyroid, cascara/emodin, taurine, glycine, etc have all been shown to help with the rebalancing towards less pathogenic bacteria, not to mention their effects on opposing endotoxin.

Ah, well I take emodin, taurine and glycine haha :) And I put red light on my thyroid daily to boost my thyroid function.
 

jayUK9779

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
53
I went into remission for 3 years from CFS, carrot salads helped the most looking back. Now I have a hiatus hernia not many things are having such an immediate effect now :( digestion is sluggish all the way through from stomach to bowel :(
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
haidut, I'm surprised how scarce it's the literature connecting endotoxin to motor coordination/loss of balance. Even if you search for the straight connection of inflammatory markers, you don't find much relevant information..

Yeah, and considering kids with autism (another "gut" condition) often have problems with balance the lack of research into this connection is highly suspect. I suppose the establishment does not want to go too far down the endotoxin route given the proven connection between all kinds of emulsifiers, gums, drugs (opioids, SSRI), stress, etc and endotoxin / serotonin release. They prefer to just study "microbiome imbalance" and chalk all symptoms to bad bacteria, for which if course they sell a pill with probiotics.
 

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
This makes sense, I always feel much better after antibiotics, but it doesn't last for long.

Should we work on sealing up leaky gut as well? Though I have heard that the gut can become permeable again very quickly if the root cause is not addressed. (and I'm not sure what the root cause of leaky gut is!)
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
This makes sense, I always feel much better after antibiotics, but it doesn't last for long.

Should we work on sealing up leaky gut as well? Though I have heard that the gut can become permeable again very quickly if the root cause is not addressed. (and I'm not sure what the root cause of leaky gut is!)

If that is your goal then things like magnesium, gelatin/glycine, theanine and anti-histamines are some of the substances shown to seal the leaky gut.
 

Mufasa

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
624
If that is your goal then things like magnesium, gelatin/glycine, theanine and anti-histamines are some of the substances shown to seal the leaky gut.

I heard vitamin A is also important for healing a leaky gut, but I got that information from the GAPS diet, not sure how true that is.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
I heard vitamin A is also important for healing a leaky gut, but I got that information from the GAPS diet, not sure how true that is.

Definitely, forgot about vitamin A. It should be high on the list for people with gut and even pancreatic issues.
 

Derek

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
21
This makes sense, I always feel much better after antibiotics, but it doesn't last for long.

Should we work on sealing up leaky gut as well? Though I have heard that the gut can become permeable again very quickly if the root cause is not addressed. (and I'm not sure what the root cause of leaky gut is!)

Zinc deficiency is a big cause. Also, there is a mucus layer throughout the whole intestines that is made up of glucose; so adequate glucose and protein are two other things to focus on. PUFA avoidance as well.
 

Bluebell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
585
Thanks. Taking magnesium glycinate, and glycine. Theanine gives me liver pain for some reason. Taking cypro around once a week. I need to add A. Zinc I've had too much of in the past so I'm not taking it.

Does anyone know if N-Acetylglucosamine (NAG) is a Peaty thing to take? It's supposed to help seal up the gut. I took it but wondered if it might be feeding bad bacteria.
 

Derek

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
21
Thanks. Taking magnesium glycinate, and glycine. Theanine gives me liver pain for some reason. Taking cypro around once a week. I need to add A. Zinc I've had too much of in the past so I'm not taking it.

Does anyone know if N-Acetylglucosamine (NAG) is a Peaty thing to take? It's supposed to help seal up the gut. I took it but wondered if it might be feeding bad bacteria.

Better to get glycine and magnesium from food than to supplement. I meant getting zinc from food, not supplementing. Glutamine is probably much better than NAG. How do you know you even have a leaky gut?
 

Bozidar

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Jun 19, 2023
Messages
201
Location
Switzerland
Hi, this is a very old post, but I must ask something because its constantly coming to my head.
I have a CFS and on the beginning of this year I have done some blood tests.
My endotoxin marker(LPS) in the blood is below reference range.
My first thought is how can there even be a range limiter on the lower side? Wouldn't zero on the lower end be the best?

I have some gut irritation which came on while I was doing keto, I developed those under eye bags which are a clear sign on gut irritation.
I don't know how is it even possible to get gut irritation during keto when its touted as a gut healing diet.
I read somewhere that if you don't give the bugs down there fiber to eat, then they eat your gut lining. That seems plausible, but can this really happen like this?

I have heard this phrase that every illness starts in the gut many times by now, but I just don't know what to make of my very low LPS and my CFS, depression, mental health issues...

Can somebody comment on this?
Thank you
 

TheSir

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
1,952
Hi, this is a very old post, but I must ask something because its constantly coming to my head.
I have a CFS and on the beginning of this year I have done some blood tests.
My endotoxin marker(LPS) in the blood is below reference range.
My first thought is how can there even be a range limiter on the lower side? Wouldn't zero on the lower end be the best?

I have some gut irritation which came on while I was doing keto, I developed those under eye bags which are a clear sign on gut irritation.
I don't know how is it even possible to get gut irritation during keto when its touted as a gut healing diet.
I read somewhere that if you don't give the bugs down there fiber to eat, then they eat your gut lining. That seems plausible, but can this really happen like this?

I have heard this phrase that every illness starts in the gut many times by now, but I just don't know what to make of my very low LPS and my CFS, depression, mental health issues...

Can somebody comment on this?
Thank you
Are you getting delayed, days or weeks long crashes from minor exertion, or are you just constantly and easily fatigued?
 

Bozidar

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Jun 19, 2023
Messages
201
Location
Switzerland
Are you getting delayed, days or weeks long crashes from minor exertion, or are you just constantly and easily fatigued?
Well I feel like I am constantly in a fatigued state.
Recovery from exercise also takes a long time and I as just stated I never recover to a completely refreshed state.
Evenings are particularly bad with fatigue. I work late shift at my work and when I eat around 7pm during my 30 mintes break, its like a truck ran me over...
 

TheSir

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
1,952
Well I feel like I am constantly in a fatigued state.
Recovery from exercise also takes a long time and I as just stated I never recover to a completely refreshed state.
Evenings are particularly bad with fatigue. I work late shift at my work and when I eat around 7pm during my 30 mintes break, its like a truck ran me over...
Fortunately you are most likely not dealing with CFS. The hallmark of CFS is not knowing when you have over-exerted yourself. You might go on a walk and feel fine afterwards, only to suddenly crash a day or two later. During a crash you would also suffer from other symptoms besides fatigue, such as noise/light sensitivity, insomnia and feeling sick. In a way, it's misleading to call it chronic fatigue syndrome, as it's more like a total metabolic failure syndrome.

It sounds like you are dealing with adrenal fatigue, or burnout as it is commonly called. It's pretty easy to burn yourself out on a low carb diet. In absence of LPS, gut irritation could very well be a symptom of adrenal fatigue. Stress hormone imbalances mess with so many bodily functions. This is not to say that there couldn't be other factors contributing to your gut problems too.
 

Bozidar

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Jun 19, 2023
Messages
201
Location
Switzerland
Fortunately you are most likely not dealing with CFS. The hallmark of CFS is not knowing when you have over-exerted yourself. You might go on a walk and feel fine afterwards, only to suddenly crash a day or two later. During a crash you would also suffer from other symptoms besides fatigue, such as noise/light sensitivity, insomnia and feeling sick. In a way, it's misleading to call it chronic fatigue syndrome, as it's more like a total metabolic failure syndrome.

It sounds like you are dealing with adrenal fatigue, or burnout as it is commonly called. It's pretty easy to burn yourself out on a low carb diet. In absence of LPS, gut irritation could very well be a symptom of adrenal fatigue. Stress hormone imbalances mess with so many bodily functions. This is not to say that there couldn't be other factors contributing to your gut problems too.
Thanks for the reply.

Your message is a little bit dismissive.
I do have sensitivity to noise and light and touch and insomnia also. Maybe I am to ignorant on the subject, but I think I have both. Adrenal fatigue/burnout and CFS.
Any kind of stress is difficult for me to tolerate. Physical/exercise, digestive, just sensory stimulus...

Anyways, its difficult for me to understand both very low LPS and these problems I have because of the sentence. "Every illness starts in the gut"
I must be exceptionally healthy by that standard, yet I am not.
 

TheSir

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
1,952
Thanks for the reply.

Your message is a little bit dismissive.
I do have sensitivity to noise and light and touch and insomnia also. Maybe I am to ignorant on the subject, but I think I have both. Adrenal fatigue/burnout and CFS.
Any kind of stress is difficult for me to tolerate. Physical/exercise, digestive, just sensory stimulus...

Anyways, its difficult for me to understand both very low LPS and these problems I have because of the sentence. "Every illness starts in the gut"
I must be exceptionally healthy by that standard, yet I am not.
Sorry, I don't mean to be dismissive. However, i do mean to ensure that the term 'CFS' is being properly applied. It is a horrible disease and people have the tendency to self-diagnose any kind of chronic fatigue as CFS without truly understanding what CFS even is. This is very harmful to those who actually are suffering from the disease. CFS patients barely have the energy to bring awareness to their disease as it is, let alone fight against such misconceptions.

Are you familiar with post-exertional malaise (PEM)? If you don't have it, you don't have CFS. If you do, you have my condolences, and I hope you understand why I'm being so anal about this. Post-exertional malaise - MEpedia

Though the notion of every illnesa starting in the gut sounds good, it's far from being true. If you feel that it doesn't apply to your case, the reason is not that you're an exception, but rather that the premise is questionable. Nevertheless, getting your liver and intestines working is no doubt a big piece of the puzzle, and for what it's worth, I've come across a case of someone curing themselves of CFS with a simple treatment of coffee enemas, milk thistle and ALA.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom