Cerulopasmine

gilson dantas

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I have a low ceruloplasmin year by year [six years or more, actually]; the equally low copper;
I read here that ceruloplasmin don´t let copper diet to be assimilated;
I ask: does anyone of you know how to increase ceruloplasmin?
 

Ella

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I have a low ceruloplasmin year by year [six years or more, actually]; the equally low copper;
I read here that ceruloplasmin don´t let copper diet to be assimilated;
I ask: does anyone of you know how to increase ceruloplasmin?

Eating liver which has both copper and vitamin A. The copper is bioavailable comes with its own transport molecule ceruloplasmin so it is not toxic copper.

If you are low in copper you will also have toxic iron stored deep in tissue sites. Copper is required for proper utilisation of iron.
 

Dante

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[QUElla"Ella, post: 215669, member: 195"]Eating liver which has both copper and vitamin A. The copper is bioavailable comes with its own transport molecule ceruloplasmin so it is not toxic copper.

If you are low in copper you will also have toxic iron stored deep in tissue sites. Copper is required for proper utilisation of iron.[/QUOTE]
Hi ella, thanks for reply. I should have been more specific. My serum copper is close to upper end of the normal while being borderline ceruloplasmin deficient. I eat weekly liver and occasional chocolate so question was more geared towards raising raising ceruloplasmin.
 

Ella

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[QUElla"Ella, post: 215669, member: 195"]Eating liver which has both copper and vitamin A. The copper is bioavailable comes with its own transport molecule ceruloplasmin so it is not toxic copper.

If you are low in copper you will also have toxic iron stored deep in tissue sites. Copper is required for proper utilisation of iron.
Hi ella, thanks for reply. I should have been more specific. My serum copper is close to upper end of the normal while being borderline ceruloplasmin deficient. I eat weekly liver and occasional chocolate so question was more geared towards raising raising ceruloplasmin.[/QUOTE]

Are you testing copper in serum or RBC. Copper must be bound and transported within the body using either ceruloplasmin or metallothionein. If you are deficient in either, you may have high copper in the plasma or serum, and low copper in your cells.

"Serum copper largely reflects serum ceruloplasmin, and is not a sensitive indicator of copper nutritional status. Serum ceruloplasmin levels are known to increase by 50% or more under certain conditions of physical stress, such as trauma, inflammation, or disease. Because over 90% of serum copper is carried in ceruloplasmin, elevated serum copper may simply be a marker of the inflammation that accompanies atherosclerosis."

My guess is that the elevated serum copper is simply a marker of un-useable copper coming from tissue sites.

There can be many reasons that you a low in CP. Adrenal stress and overburdened liver. Good liver function is required to make CP. Heavy metals like cadmium, environmental toxins, too much Vitamin D, supplements like iron, zinc, calcium.

A hair mineral analysis can reveal copper levels in relation to other minerals.

It may be that you have been storing biounavailable copper in tissue sites like the liver and the consumption of bioavailable copper (from liver + retinol in liver) is now pushing the un-useable copper out into the blood reflecting high levels in this compartment. Because liver and adrenals are not optimised, CP is inhibited. So as they say you are both copper deficient and copper toxic at the same time. If this is the case then you want ensure that you are making adequate bile to help get rid of this copper otherwise, it will recirculate and find its way into tissue sites again.
Vitamin A will bring up ceruloplasmin. If you are already eating liver then you should be getting plenty copper. Copper in chocolate does not come with transport protein. If copper is too high then you may need some extra zinc to balance to the copper. Perhaps some oysters that are rich in zinc and also good quality copper. If zinc levels are OK, you could try more fruit, sugar and sulfur rich foods. If your iron studies are good then your copper should be OK. Ceruloplasmin can take a long time to come up. You need to fix the liver and adrenals for this to happen. As long as you don't have high ferritin levels and drink coffee or milk with the liver to prevent iron build-up in tissues.

I would check copper in various compartments. Urine tells how much you are excreting and red blood cell how much is in the cells. Hair tissue sample will give you a broad overview of your copper levels in respect to other minerals like zinc, iron etc. and the heavy metals that are causing grief to adrenal glands, liver etc.

Sorry can't give you an easy answer. We are all at risk of copper dysregulation.
 

Dante

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Thanks for the detailed reply. I got serum copper not RBC . Btw a urinary penicillamine test will reveal whole body copper status ( that's the only test that will reveal whole body copper storage in my opinion) but that's costly and may not be available where i live. see this Methylene Blue Inhibition Of Oestradiol-induced Increase Of Ceruloplasmin Serum Levels In Rats
Iron studies are ok but I do have mild gilbert's syndrome. Interesting thought about adrenals. Do you believe in partial adrenal stress @Ella? Since what i learnt from here is that adrenals regenerate very fast and it's only in extreme cases like Addison's where there is a problem . Most of the problems are somewhere in the hypothalamus-pituitary signalling or something like that.
 
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Ella

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Btw a urinary penicillamine test will reveal whole body copper status ( that's the only test that will test whole body copper storage in my opinion) but that's costly and may not be available where i live

I think the test is reserved for Wilson's Disease and you would need to be extremely certain that you are looking at copper toxicity situation as copper depletion can result in neurological disorders that can take years to resolve. It would not be good for people like me that are allergic to it. Besides, I don't advocate such aggressive treatment in normal individuals as dietary manipulation is all that is required. The body does not like aggressive treatments (it activates the stress response) only gentle and at a rate that will cause the least amount of harm. The "precautionary principle" of "first do no harm" applies here. Yes, of course, it will be expensive because no-one cares for cheap and easily accessible options.

I do have mild gilbert's syndrome

With gilbert's you require an impeccable diet - that is real food and if it is mild still good diet and low stress. There maybe be some malnutrition which can affect the liver's ability to produce CP or absorption of copper.

adrenals regenerate very fast and it's only in extreme cases like Addison's where there is a problem . Most of the problems are somewhere in the hypothalamus-pituitary signalling or something like that.

Yes, but even though they regenerate they can be stimulated and irritated by heavy metals that can cause you to overuse the sympathetic autonomic nervous system. Not only heavy metals but also deficiency of crucial minerals. The fight-flight response causes further depletion of crucial minerals and the accumulation of toxic metals. Thus you can have low-functioning or hyperfunctioning adrenals. I don't understand what partial adrenal stress would be. Either they are feeling stress or they are not. Can't see how they can be partially stressed. When HPA is perturbed/dysregulated it is felt by all the organs, tissues and glands. The whole organism is perturbed.

CP is also affected by stress. I don't recommend zinc supplementation but carefully balancing of liver and oysters. The hair tissue mineral analysis is your best guide.

The problem with low CP is to do with the liver because liver makes it and yes with high copper you need to investigate estrogen. Xenoestrogens or testosterone being aromatised to estrogens. Serum copper levels really tell us nothing about the copper at the cellular level. So you can have low serum copper but this tells us nothing about how much toxic copper is stored in deep tissue sites like the liver, pancreas, brain etc.

Provocation testing is not required and can do more damage.
 

Kyle Bigman

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I have been experiencing either symptoms of toxicity or deficiency and I can't seem to figure out which.

I am worried I have Wilson's disease, however, so I am starting to try to test myself by going to labs. I got Ceruloplasmin checked and it is low, at 0.19 g/L (normal: 0.20-0.50 g/L); my total copper was low-normal. I want to get tested for urine copper next.

Are there reasons for such a low Ceruloplasmin that are not Wilson's disease? My main complaints recently have been depression and my hands are always freezing. Beyond that I just don't feel good.
 

Kyle Bigman

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[QUElla"Ella, post: 215669, member: 195"]Eating liver which has both copper and vitamin A. The copper is bioavailable comes with its own transport molecule ceruloplasmin so it is not toxic copper.

If you are low in copper you will also have toxic iron stored deep in tissue sites. Copper is required for proper utilisation of iron.
[/QUOTE]
Would that iron be detectable on blood tests like Ferritin?
 

Ippodrom47

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I have been experiencing either symptoms of toxicity or deficiency and I can't seem to figure out which.

I am worried I have Wilson's disease, however, so I am starting to try to test myself by going to labs. I got Ceruloplasmin checked and it is low, at 0.19 g/L (normal: 0.20-0.50 g/L); my total copper was low-normal. I want to get tested for urine copper next.

Are there reasons for such a low Ceruloplasmin that are not Wilson's disease? My main complaints recently have been depression and my hands are always freezing. Beyond that I just don't feel good.
Hi! Were you able to find the cause of your low Ceruloplasmin?
 

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