Cell Phone Towers Are Like Giant Wifi Routers

[TubZy]

I thought you ran that Anabolic Apex website? That seems like fantastic stimulation. And you are always discoverying new research and making progress in the pfs/hairloss field...

I'm talking more along the lines of jobs like server administrator/ programmer.... I know a few of these people and their lives seem pretty dull TBH

Lol no, I own a very small percentage of it. I have a normal good paying job for a while now in the tech industry. Yes, I sit on the computer for very long hours at least during the day, how come you think I'm so active on here

 

[sladerunner69]

Didn't someone recently post a study where pilots and electricians were twice as likely to get ALS compared to people in jobs where they didn't regularly get exposed to very low frequency magnetic fields?

Maybe, can you find a link to it?

 

[sladerunner69]

Ray has mentioned women working on sewing machines in factories having higher incidences of mental disorders, though. Where does this fall on the bubble wrap to TNT spectrum?

That is due to the monotony of the work and the lack of meaning

 

[TubZy]

Maybe, can you find a link to it?

Yeah it was discussed in another thread, but irrelevant to any normal person who isn't working 24/7 and in close proximity towards extremely high powered electrical equipment. The method of actions was also due to disrupted circadian rhythm particular in terms of melatonin levels, which Ray isn't a fan of either.

 

[Such_Saturation]

How are we discussing about quantity in a world where the sheer quality of danger is not even granted to these instruments?

 

[sladerunner69]

Yeah it was discussed in another thread, but irrelevant to any normal person who isn't working 24/7 and in close proximity towards extremely high powered electrical equipment. The method of actions was also due to disrupted circadian rhythm particular in terms of melatonin levels, which Ray isn't a fan of either.

Ahh that's right I vaguely remember a thread focussed on Electrician depression/suicide. That is of dear concern to me as my father has been a long time electrician and my brother is as well, although they both perform estimations now and only infrequently go into the field.

And yes I do believe in the most recent KUMD radio show, Dr. Raymundo said he thought graveyard shifts and sleeping during the day where "really bad" and "substantially increased mortality". Personally Ive ever really understood the mechanism behind circadian rhythms- though I suppose no one truly does.

 

[sladerunner69]

How are we discussing about quantity in a world where the sheer quality of danger is not even granted to these instruments?

I believe what you are pointing to is the unknown degree of damage that ellectric machinery and signals can cause, correct? I think the range of electirc signals, the modes of different transitions, the consisitency of the emissions, all of these variables make measuring the effects of EMF very difficult, ezpecially in the long term. It's nice to know that short term the EMF's have consistently been demonstrated to be benign at typical levels.

If you still harbor doubt against the safety of radio waves, just watch this short video, they are totally harmless.

radar sound cannon - Bing video

 

[Such_Saturation]

I believe what you are pointing to is the unknown degree of damage that ellectric machinery and signals can cause, correct? I think the range of electirc signals, the modes of different transitions, the consisitency of the emissions, all of these variables make measuring the effects of EMF very difficult, ezpecially in the long term. It's nice to know that short term the EMF's have consistently been demonstrated to be benign at typical levels.

If you still harbor doubt against the safety of radio waves, just watch this short video, they are totally harmless.

radar sound cannon - Bing video

What I'm saying is that mainstream science forbids as one of its dogmas that "non ionizing radiation" as they call it, can interact with biological organisms unless by literally roasting them alive or crushing them with magnets. And here we are trying to say it's a waste of time to discuss this or that signal strength just because it's insignificantly weak, and at the same time you are either quoting or asking us for quotes from the very literature that doesn't think EMF can possess the quality of harmfulness.

 

[sladerunner69]

What I'm saying is that mainstream science forbids as one of its dogmas that "non ionizing radiation" as they call it, can interact with biological organisms unless by literally roasting them alive or crushing them with magnets. And here we are trying to say it's a waste of time to discuss this or that signal strength just because it's insignificantly weak, and at the same time you are either quoting or asking us for quotes from the very literature that doesn't think EMF can possess the quality of harmfulness.

Believe you me, I a very much against establishment dogma. I am fully open to considering all ideas. As I stated previously, we need to see more long term studies, and those won't be published for another decade or two. My gut says that EMF at low levels is relatively insignificant, but I welcome more literature or contrary observations.

Having an answer that lines with the views of the establishment isn't inherently a bad thing. The point of shedding reliance on dogma is to use empiricism to achieve accurate results. Dr. Peat, for instance, disagrees with the establishment dogma when it comes to typical nutrition recommendations like saturated fat>heart disease, but he would actually agree with establishment dogma when it comes to global warming being a hoax (although one could argue that global warming has become the establishment in the last 10 years or so). So not relying on establishment dogma is different from always opposing the establishment.

As clever a man as you, I'm sure you know this already, but I'm not sure you are looking at this problem empirically if you think that low level EMF's are dangerous. Surely there would be some literature pointing to the danger.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Believe you me, I a very much against establishment dogma. I am fully open to considering all ideas. As I stated previously, we need to see more long term studies, and those won't be published for another decade or two. My gut says that EMF at low levels is relatively insignificant, but I welcome more literature or contrary observations.

Having an answer that lines with the views of the establishment isn't inherently a bad thing. The point of shedding reliance on dogma is to use empiricism to achieve accurate results. Dr. Peat, for instance, disagrees with the establishment dogma when it comes to typical nutrition recommendations like saturated fat>heart disease, but he would actually agree with establishment dogma when it comes to global warming being a hoax (although one could argue that global warming has become the establishment in the last 10 years or so). So not relying on establishment dogma is different from always opposing the establishment.

As clever a man as you, I'm sure you know this already, but I'm not sure you are looking at this problem empirically if you think that low level EMF's are dangerous. Surely there would be some literature pointing to the danger.

Yes but being on a Ray Peat themed forum, empiricism in the more bland sense of the term is not something I seek. I'm trying to say let them discuss this if they want, and even cover their house in foil if they want. And then sure, we can read those 10 year studies if they come out. I'm saying let them try to derive things from the existing holistic context that we have built, because it is logically sound and so will be the implications. The guys in white lab coats don't have the privilege of our context, nor would they keep their job if they took time to do what we do. So let us.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Theres copious amounts of data that shows that EMF radiation is dangerous

 

[zztr]

Theres copious amounts of data that shows that EMF radiation is dangerous

There is none showing a wifi signal or anything of comparable power and frequency is dangerous.

 

[michael94]

There is none showing a wifi signal or anything of comparable power and frequency is dangerous.

Depends what you mean by dangerous... Anything that reduces health ( even if subtly ) should be taken seriously.

 

[TubZy]

I think the point is that even it is "subtly" dangerous in a manner, there is really no way of avoiding it, just can reduce measures (i.e. shut your phone off before bed, keep it away from your head using headset/speaker phones). Sure, we can talk all day and speculate how bad it really could be, but at the end of the day if you shut your router off your neighbors next to you is still penetrating your walls and providing the same damage. If you live in a city/suburban/metropolitan area good luck avoiding it, it is only going to get worse. Honestly, bluetooth/wifi/4G (soon to be 5G, which will also become "fixed wireless" replacing current landlines and fiber connections in the future even causing more exposure) would need substantial evidence that is is majorily harmful for any major tech company to actually reconsider redesigning their device's infrastructure.

Like @LukeL said, move to an extremely remote area if you want to avoid it entirely, but then again this thread is titled "cell phones towers" well have fun with no cell service, no social life, no good paying job etc....you get my point

 

[zztr]

I don't think it's a question of mild harm minimization. Nobody has shown wifi type signals do be damaging *at all*. Show me the rats made sick by being four feet away from a household wifi router on continuous transmit. We're talking about very small amounts of power here. The rats would probably be more annoyed by the flashing lights.

 

[TubZy]

I'm also saying this from my own personal experience as I work with many RF engineers and have close personal friends that are RF engineers who literally sit in an RF/antenna chamber all day long with frequencies 10x the amount that you would be exposed to in public. They have been doing this 40+ years and don't have any other issues. This also doesn't take into account that 90% of them don't workout, eat a PUFA rich refined diet, hypothyroidism, poor hormone levels etc. on top of being exposed to high frequencies.

Sure, there are a few in the mix that developed cancer later in life when they were older, but there is no way of proving it could be from EMF/RF or diet, lifestyle, genetics etc.

Should it be minimized as much as possible like leaving your phone up to head for long periods of time? Of course.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Nobody has shown wifi type signals do be damaging *at all*

So?

 

[zztr]

So?

So there's no reason at all to worry about it.

 

[Queequeg]

I don't think it's a question of mild harm minimization. Nobody has shown wifi type signals do be damaging *at all*. Show me the rats made sick by being four feet away from a household wifi router on continuous transmit. We're talking about very small amounts of power here. The rats would probably be more annoyed by the flashing lights.

several studies mentioned in here https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/7520958055.pdf
also
Is WiFi Safe? 7 Serious Health Dangers of Wi-Fi

even ninth graders can show its bad

 

[Tarmander]

I am of the opinion that EMF is a real thing, and pretty subtle. I have recently been using thyroid and I find that after use, I do not feel WIFI or being under cell towers at all. A few months ago before I started thyroid, whenever I walked into a house with WIFI on, or my car sat under a cell phone tower, I would start sneezing. That would turn into sweating, and then a kind of sick feeling as my blood sugar began to drop. If i had to sleep around it, I would wake up constantly and have very poor sleep.

At this point, all the arguments about EMF, and they are all over the internet, are kind of frivolous to me. I know it affects me. It has happen so many times, and in so many different circumstances, it is unquestionable. The people I talk to who it affects also really do not care about the science, it is crystal clear to them from their experience. I spent the last year finding a house that I could live in that was far enough away from these things that my cornet meter does not read anything. Plus I live around old people who do not use WIFI. The difference in sleep and quality of life is quite significant.

The main thing they do is lower blood sugar, I believe through calcium channels. If you have strong enough thyroid function and glycogen, then you will not feel it. Also, if you are on enough adrenaline and cortisol, you will not feel it. I think I was in the unique position where I had poor thyroid function, and had used supplements to lower stress hormones to the point where my body very easily went into hypoglycemia.

That is my best guess. In the coming years, especially if 5G hits, everyone will see.