Catholicism as the great whore of Revelation 17 and present-day Baal worship

Pistachio

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Protestants have been claiming the RCC as the whore for hundreds of years.

Yawn. More anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Protestants have no apostolic succession, no hierarchy, no authority, no Holy Scriptures. They are their own authorities because they are a religion unto themselves—with tens of thousands of denominations all fighting with each other over who is the "true" church, yet they are all false churches in rebellion against Rome.

Go Rome or go home!
 

yerrag

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As this thread is about whoreness, can someone tell me why no one is wanting to address my questioning of the Great Dogma of the Rapture? That is after all a dogma, which is despised in the Catholic Religion by the Evangelical Religion. Why should one dogma be lifted over other dogmas?
 

Pistachio

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They ask their "saints" to pray for them.
Because the Saints are considered alive, not dead. No necromancy taking place.
They do essentially worship whoever happens to be Pope since his official total is Vicar of Christ, which means in place of Christ, which also means antichrist.
Pope is not worshipped. Learn the difference between worship, reverence, and paying homage.
 

marcar72

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As this thread is about whoreness, can someone tell me why no one is wanting to address my questioning of the Great Dogma of the Rapture?

Titus 3:
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. God bless!! :)
 

yerrag

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Titus 3:
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. God bless!! :)
It is a very convincing argument. Next time I can use that against those advocating keto PUFA diets!
 

yerrag

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Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. God bless!! :)
Ahh... pride. The P word - for those who question the sanctity of a dogma.

Lightning shall strike down the proud. Unleas 2070 comes and carries up the believers and leave me wailing in the dust.
 

bk_

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Protestants have been claiming the RCC as the whore for hundreds of years.

Yawn. More anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Protestants have no apostolic succession, no hierarchy, no authority, no Holy Scriptures. They are their own authorities because they are a religion unto themselves—with tens of thousands of denominations all fighting with each other over who is the "true" church, yet they are all false churches in rebellion against Rome.

Go Rome or go home!
Catholic monks who also believe the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon: Is The World About To End? The Apocalypse Explained? - EndTimes.Video
 

mariantos

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Because the Saints are considered alive, not dead. No necromancy taking place.

Pope is not worshipped. Learn the difference between worship, reverence, and paying homage.
Unfortunately it is.
Countless icons hang on the walls of many catholics, they kiss his picture, pray to him, not for him. This was given to me to see with my own eyes, on the path of life where I was carried. I have no reason to contradict you just for the sake of doing it or to lie to you.


I felt great pain in my soul but also disappointment seeing these things.
 

Pistachio

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Unfortunately it is.
Countless icons hang on the walls of many catholics, they kiss his picture, pray to him, not for him. This was given to me to see with my own eyes, on the path of life where I was carried. I have no reason to contradict you just for the sake of doing it or to lie to you.


I felt great pain in my soul but also disappointment seeing these things.
Do you know what the purpose of icons are?
 

Pistachio

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Sounds like a rhetorical question.
Please explain their purpose if you wish.
They are to focus the believer during prayer and reflection. In other words, they are for a spiritual purpose, not some dry, physical form of worship. Protestants never seem to realize this.

What do we do with photographs of loved ones? We remember, we ponder them, and we focus on their presence.
 
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TheSir

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They are to focus the believer during prayer and reflection. In other words, they are for a spiritual purpose, not some dry, physical form of worship. Protestants never seem to realize this.

What do we do with photographs of loved ones? We remember, we ponder them, and we focus on their presence.
Are you saying that you're focusing on the presence of the saint during prayer? Is this not equal to praying to them, and furthermore as such, worshiping them? Consider that where ever your attention goes, that is your object of worship. How can you worship God if you're directing your attention at thoughts of another human?
 
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Pistachio

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Are you saying that you're focusing on the presence of the saint during prayer? Is this not equal to praying to them, and furthermore as such, worshiping them? Consider that where ever your attention goes, that is your object of worship.
Prayer and worship are not the same thing. And, no, where your attention goes is not the same as worship. You don't worship your job when you are focused on a task at hand. That's silly to even think that.


How can you worship God if you're directing your attention at thoughts of another human?
Most Holy icons are of Christ Himself.
 

mariantos

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Do you know what the purpose of icons are?
Sounds like a rhetorical question.
Please explain their purpose if you wish
They are to focus the believer during prayer and reflection. In other words, they are for a spiritual purpose, not some dry, physical form of worship. Protestants never seem to realize this.

What do we do with photographs of loved ones? We remember, we ponder them, and we focus on their presence.
I understand your point of view. However, I do not agree with this explanation and no, I am not a protestant, in conclusion, not only protestants disagree with this practice.



Christians no longer have a physical temple through which to worship God, but they are temples of God, for His Spirit dwells in them. Similarly, the church is not, as some believe, the building where religious services are held, but the Bible shows that the church is represented by the believers as a group, whom the Lord Jesus washed by His Word.

But do you think that those who do not have icons to worship or those who have no shelter and only the sky is their roof, do you think that they cannot have a fully concentrated and channeled prayer to the Lord God? I believe that God can be found through prayer, no matter where we are, whether it is a church, a desert, a sea, or even if I were locked in a garbage can and I would direct my prayer, be it in my thought, or expressed in words, I am firmly convinced that God would hear me. From my point of view, those who use icons or statues or anything else to worship God, they do not take into account the omnipresence, omnipotence but also the other attributes of the Lord in consideration. The Holy Spirit is not bordered . The Lord our wonderful God is a great God. He is not limited.


I am very afraid that it is a form of idolatry, very nicely packaged, to look like anything, but not idolatry. Thus our worship should not be helped by material, visible things, so you do not worship through images for example, but in your spirit, and therefore this mode of worship is not a superficial ritual but a relationship between your spirit and God who is spirit. I can also be wrong, because I am human and I am subject to error, but even with this risk, I prefer to avoid any form of worship that is addressed through the various types of work done by man. I can be wrong, but the Word of God is absolute truth!

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Matthew 6:6


But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:23‭-‬24

I don't really like photos, I like to remember from memory, loved ones, events, circumstances, etc. I think the analogy you made between photos with loved ones and icons is irrelevant.
 

TheSir

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Prayer and worship are not the same thing.
Indeed, not all worship is prayer, but all prayer is worship.

And, no, where your attention goes is not the same as worship. You don't worship your job when you are focused on a task at hand. That's silly to even think that.
What fundamentally defines worship, if not dedicated and exclusive attention upon an object? Anything you dedicate attention to is subject to deification, be it money, career, relationship, what ever. What is the thing you dedicate the largest amount of your attention to? This thing is the ultimate god in your life. When God said that you shall have no other gods than Him, He meant that He is to be in the most central position in your life. For if he is not, then another god is. In your own daily acts you see what you worship. As such, the reality of your relationship with God is better reflected in your acts than your thoughts.
 

Pistachio

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Indeed, not all worship is prayer, but all prayer is worship.
Says who, you, a protestant—whose authority is himself?
What fundamentally defines worship, if not dedicated and exclusive attention upon an object? Anything you dedicate attention to is subject to deification, be it money, career, relationship, what ever. What is the thing you dedicate the largest amount of your attention to? This thing is the ultimate god in your life. When God said that you shall have no other gods than Him, He meant that He is to be in the most central position in your life. For if he is not, then another god is. In your own daily acts you see what you worship. As such, the reality of your relationship with God is better reflected in your acts than your thoughts.

There are several degrees of this worship:

  • if it is addressed directly to God, it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecratedtheological term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry.
  • When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration (cf. Chollet, loc. cit., col. 2407, and Bouquillon, Tractatus de virtute religionis, I, Bruges, 1880, 22 sq.).
  • As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).
 

Pistachio

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Sounds like a rhetorical question.
Please explain their purpose if you wish

I understand your point of view. However, I do not agree with this explanation and no, I am not a protestant, in conclusion, not only protestants disagree with this practice.



Christians no longer have a physical temple through which to worship God, but they are temples of God, for His Spirit dwells in them. Similarly, the church is not, as some believe, the building where religious services are held, but the Bible shows that the church is represented by the believers as a group, whom the Lord Jesus washed by His Word.

But do you think that those who do not have icons to worship or those who have no shelter and only the sky is their roof, do you think that they cannot have a fully concentrated and channeled prayer to the Lord God?
No, I did not say this. Icons are a help, not an end in themselves.

I believe that God can be found through prayer, no matter where we are, whether it is a church, a desert, a sea, or even if I were locked in a garbage can and I would direct my prayer, be it in my thought, or expressed in words, I am firmly convinced that God would hear me. From my point of view, those who use icons or statues or anything else to worship God, they do not take into account the omnipresence, omnipotence but also the other attributes of the Lord in consideration. The Holy Spirit is not bordered . The Lord our wonderful God is a great God. He is not limited.
Fair enough, but that doesn't mean those using icons are somehow limiting God or something.
I am very afraid that it is a form of idolatry, very nicely packaged, to look like anything, but not idolatry.
Sure, this is the argument of the iconoclasts. It's not a new or modern heresy.
Thus our worship should not be helped by material, visible things
Why not? Are you taking the gnostic position that material, visible things are inherently evil?

St. John of Damascus:

"I represent God, the Invisible One, not as invisible, but insofar as he has become visible for us by participation in flesh and blood. If we made an image of the invisible God, we would certainly be in error, but we do nothing of the sort; for we are not in error if we make the image of the incarnate God, who appeared on earth in the flesh, and who, in His ineffable goodness, lived with human beings and assumed the nature, the thickness, the shape and the color of the flesh."

FYI, John of Damascus:

 

TheSir

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Says who, you, a protestant—whose authority is himself?
Words have certain meanings and meanings certain implications.

There are several degrees of this worship:

  • if it is addressed directly to God, it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecratedtheological term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry.
  • When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration (cf. Chollet, loc. cit., col. 2407, and Bouquillon, Tractatus de virtute religionis, I, Bruges, 1880, 22 sq.).
  • As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).
Thank you for these descriptions. However, no amount of derivative theological pilpul will get you around the fact that either you're worshipping God directly or you're worshipping something else. Consider that Jesus incarnated precisely so that no man, law or institution would have to come in between the relationship between man and God. The only middleman between God and man is Christ. Not the saints, not Mary, not the pope, not the angels. Veneration is fine, worshiping and praying crosses the line.
 

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