Casualties Of The Nutritional Dark Ages, Part III: Coffee

[juanitacarlos]

Good article from Danny re the benefits of coffee.

 

[sladerunner69]

Why do i get such bad headaches from it?

 

[Nighteyes]

Link just takes you to his front page / article page?

 

[Sheik]

He's removed a lot of articles over time, I'm guessing because he no longer felt they were accurate enough.

 

[Parsifal]

Why do i get such bad headaches from it?

Maybe because it stimulates bile flow so serotonin?

 

[tara]

Why do i get such bad headaches from it?

Here's my current working hypothesis for myself:
Coffee/caffeine increases rate of conversion of T4 > T3.
> T4 level decreases (unless increased somehow).
Eventually reduced T4 means reduced T3.
Reduced T3 means less energy and vulnerability to headache.

I don't know if this is really what happens, but it seems consistent with what I've read so far, and I've not yet seen an alternative explanation.

My experience with just small amounts of coffee is that it can make me feel good for a while, and can even interrupt a beginning headache sometimes, but the more I drink the harder I fall when the migraine eventually gets me. Usually the coffee has started to taste bad by then.

 

[sladerunner69]

Here's my current working hypothesis for myself:
Coffee/caffeine increases rate of conversion of T4 > T3.
> T4 level decreases (unless increased somehow).
Eventually reduced T4 means reduced T3.
Reduced T3 means less energy and vulnerability to headache.

I don't know if this is really what happens, but it seems consistent with what I've read so far, and I've not yet seen an alternative explanation.

My experience with just small amounts of coffee is that it can make me feel good for a while, and can even interrupt a beginning headache sometimes, but the more I drink the harder I fall when the migraine eventually gets me. Usually the coffee has started to taste bad by then.

Perhaps, I was speculating that caffeine has something along the liens of an anti-androgen effect. After drinking large amounts I feel tired, lose my sex drive, and have more fat and less lean muscle mass. These are actually observably significant differences Ive caught on to over the past couple years or so. Drinking coffee I do not recover as quickly from weight lifting and my chest tends to be sore, a result of my heart working harder than normal.

 

[sladerunner69]

Maybe because it stimulates bile flow so serotonin?

From all the reseearch Ive conducted, coffee is acutely anti-serotonin.

 

[Parsifal]

From all the reseearch Ive conducted, coffee is acutely anti-serotonin.

All the research in the world cannot fool your intuition and own experience.

In my own experience, coffee will first make a lot of bile flow from my liver and gallblader (resulting for me in anxiety, asthma/hyperventilation, headaches and difficulties to breathe, listlessness and anxiety, you can feel that if coffee tends to give you diarrhea or if your stools are burning when you pass them), and after a while (if the liver becomes healthier?), you will not notice this effect anymore and coffee will make you feel very good.
I had the same experience with taurine and glycine (I can also get serotonin symptoms from too much fat).

 

[sladerunner69]

All the research in the world cannot fool your intuition and own experience.

In my own experience, coffee will first make a lot of bile flow from my liver and gallblader (resulting for me in anxiety, asthma/hyperventilation, headaches and difficulties to breathe, listlessness and anxiety, you can feel that if coffee tends to give you diarrhea or if your stools are burning when you pass them), and after a while (if the liver becomes healthier?), you will not notice this effect anymore and coffee will make you feel very good.
I had the same experience with taurine and glycine (I can also get serotonin symptoms from too much fat).

I tresting I tend to experience all of those symptoms after lots of coffee. Are ypu positive that the burning diahrea and hyperventilation amd difficulty breathing and listlessness are result of elevated serotonin levels??

 

[Parsifal]

I tresting I tend to experience all of those symptoms after lots of coffee. Are ypu positive that the burning diahrea and hyperventilation amd difficulty breathing and listlessness are result of elevated serotonin levels??

From bile yes (haidut said that bile increases serotonin as much as endotoxins). Also, caffeine itself may constrict blood vessels if it increases adrenalin and cortisol too much. I never take coffee without glycine now, and I try to not take it with too much fluids.

 

[dookie]

From all the reseearch Ive conducted, coffee is acutely anti-serotonin.

That has been my experience too.

Anti-serotonin, probably anti-estrogen, but pro-cortisol

 

[dookie]

From bile yes (haidut said that bile increases serotonin as much as endotoxins). Also, caffeine itself may constrict blood vessels if it increases adrenalin and cortisol too much. I never take coffee without glycine now, and I try to not take it with too much fluids.

@Parsifal , @haidut :

If bile increases serotonin, isn't taurine bad then, since taurine increases bile?

 

[sladerunner69]

From bile yes (haidut said that bile increases serotonin as much as endotoxins). Also, caffeine itself may constrict blood vessels if it increases adrenalin and cortisol too much. I never take coffee without glycine now, and I try to not take it with too much fluids.

Well these effects you describe are exactly the problems Ive been having for years with high caffiene. I always suspected it was and anti-androgen, lowering dht and constricting my blood vessels and causing the other maladies.
And what does glycine have to do with anything? Peat writes that it is anti-serotonin so wouldnt it be ideal to drink with coffee??

 

[Parsifal]

Well these effects you describe are exactly the problems Ive been having for years with high caffiene. I always suspected it was and anti-androgen, lowering dht and constricting my blood vessels and causing the other maladies.
And what does glycine have to do with anything? Peat writes that it is anti-serotonin so wouldnt it be ideal to drink with coffee??

What I meant is that I take coffee only if I have glycine with it because it decreases the stress reaction for me. Sorry if I was not clear.

@Parsifal , @haidut :

If bile increases serotonin, isn't taurine bad then, since taurine increases bile?

I guess that after a while, your liver becomes healthier and the effects decrease? (I think that it was what happened to me) @haidut

 

[dookie]

Here's my current working hypothesis for myself:
Coffee/caffeine increases rate of conversion of T4 > T3.
> T4 level decreases (unless increased somehow).
Eventually reduced T4 means reduced T3.
Reduced T3 means less energy and vulnerability to headache.

I don't know if this is really what happens, but it seems consistent with what I've read so far, and I've not yet seen an alternative explanation.

My experience with just small amounts of coffee is that it can make me feel good for a while, and can even interrupt a beginning headache sometimes, but the more I drink the harder I fall when the migraine eventually gets me. Usually the coffee has started to taste bad by then.

Where have you read that coffee increases conversion of T4 to T3? Can you please post the study?

I thought coffee increases T4 only

 

[unexamined_whimsy]

After loading up on salt/sodium bicarbonate over a few days and upping my Vitamin B6 P5P dosage I find strong coffee's (instant coffee powder blended with undiluted condensed milk) effects to be almost entirely androgenic. Whereas earlier coupled with other pro-thyroid substances coffee produced bloat within minutes, I now experience improved muscle hardness and a near elimination of bloat.

It might be premature, but I would venture that controlling the adrenaline response is key to tolerating coffee.

 

[tara]

Where have you read that coffee increases conversion of T4 to T3? Can you please post the study?

I thought coffee increases T4 only

Hmm. Trying to remember where I read or heard this. I've just had a bit of a hunt and not turned anything up. My hunch is it was something said by Peat in an article or interview, but not sure and haven't found it now.
I wonder if it was to do with increasing liver efficiency?
If I've got this wrong I'd like to know too.

This thread of Haidut's points to a study that showed coffee reducing TSH, T4 and T3.
Caffeine acts like supplemental thyroid - it suppresses TSH / GH

This one points to caffeine increasing pregnenolone and progesterone in the brain:
Caffeine Increases Pregnenolone & Progesterone In The Brain

 

[Such_Saturation]

Perhaps, I was speculating that caffeine has something along the liens of an anti-androgen effect. After drinking large amounts I feel tired, lose my sex drive, and have more fat and less lean muscle mass. These are actually observably significant differences Ive caught on to over the past couple years or so. Drinking coffee I do not recover as quickly from weight lifting and my chest tends to be sore, a result of my heart working harder than normal.

I think it's seen to raise sex hormone-binding globulin in extra-high doses.

 

[Gray Ling]

What about the cheap instant coffee you get in a tin? The one Nestle makes contains large % of Chicory. I know it makes me feel better than stale filter coffee.