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Casein Vs Whey Vs Milk Protein Concentrate Vs Other Proteins

Discussion in 'Protein' started by jellog, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. jellog

    jellog Member

    Aug 24, 2015
    I would like to include more protein in my diet. I tend to believe that a lower methionine intake in the diet is possibly healthier than a higher methionine intake. I consume adequate amounts of glycine / proline via daily gelatin / broths / soups, and I really enjoy the convenience of protein drinks.

    I'm seeing casein as an interesting source of protein and a way to boost calcium intake in my diet without taking supplemental calcium or eating eggshells. However, looking into the research it looks like casein might be a particularly atherogenic and a potentially inflammatory protein compared with others. Plant proteins seem contaminated with heavy metals and with other potentially allergenic / estrogenic effects, which doesn't exactly seem ideal for health (maybe pea protein?) Hemp protein looks particularly high in phosphorus and low in calcium, with a high amount of polyunsaturated fats.

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/125/3_S ... S.full.pdf

    http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... _Oxidation











    http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... -0726-8_69


    I've had good experiences with whey protein (digests very easily with no issues, great energy / health from it, and have developed an excellent lean mass to body weight ratio while consuming it with low-inflammation and excellent blood lipids / insulin-sensitivity.) But, I'd like to cycle something else in so I don't end up developing some allergy to this protein. I believe the cysteine content in whey is also potentially inflammatory. Egg white protein looks interesting, although it's particularly high in methionine / tryptophan and potentially allergenic.

    What's a good way to supplement protein (for the purpose of gaining weight and supporting health and wellness), short of eating a bunch more meat? (where meat in general is high in tryptophan / methionine, seafood is likely contaminated with metals / pcbs / dioxins / high in phosphorus / high in polyunsaturated fats / high in TMAO, chicken is quite heavy in carcinogenic arsenic / high in polyunsaturated fats, and a high red-meat intake isn't usually associated with improvements in health, and particularly high in inflammatory and carcinogenic components like Neu5Gc.)
  2. nullredvector

    nullredvector Member

    Oct 17, 2013
    great thread. have you come up with anything else?
  3. OP

    jellog Member

    Aug 24, 2015
    I might be wrong here, but my current thought process is that my protein intake might be better off toward the lower end of the scale (with health / longevity in mind), and perhaps the kinds of amino acid ratios that promote growth / increased growth factors might be better avoided for health / longevity.

    That said... for now, I've switched from bovine whey protein isolate (which I usually choose over whey protein concentrate for the near zero cholesterol / fat content which has potential for partial oxidation) over to a whole goat milk protein. My thought process here is that I'm avoiding the potential issues with A1 dairy cows, switching animals, increasing my minerals (particularly calcium), and it looks like there might be more potential for net muscle gain using a Whey+Casein blend over choosing just one of these. I'm not sure if it's a typo (I don't know how they would have arrived at this ratio naturally), but I'm seeing Deep2 30's Calcium content at 260mg per 17g protein serving while Phosphorus is down at 29mg -- maybe they left off a zero at the end? If that's not a mistake, that's a most excellent source of Calcium, imo. Methionine content clocks in at 288mg/serving and tryptophan at 47mg with 0g total fat and 0g cholesterol. I've seen whey protein mentioned as being anti-atherogenic and anti-carcinogenic, so perhaps it'll work out better having that combined with the casein as they would naturally be found together.

    I still haven't come across a good explanation for why casein protein seems to worsen animals cardiovascular health (with carcinogenic associations) when compared with proteins derived from plants and how I might be able to use that information to my advantage to promote health / longevity, as well as muscle growth. (Fish protein actually looks like the healthiest protein from a cardiovascular point of view, but it's PUFA-city and increasingly concentrated with industrial pollution and thus not likely to be a key resource for promoting optimal health / longevity.)

    I would like to better research Pea Protein / Vegan options and see if there's anything there that's better suited for health / longevity, although I'm starting to think a lower protein intake without the supplemental processed food is likely to be more ideal (at the cost of greater stores of muscle mass.) SunWarrior: Warrior Vanilla looks interesting as a very low methionine protein with very low heavy metal contamination, although Gelatin / Collagen might be superior there -- it's cleaner than vegan protein, the methionine content is even lower, and it's lesser processed (although the plant proteins present interesting amino acid ratios and potentially useful "phytonutrients.") Need more data!

    These articles were interesting comparing animal / plant proteins through a few studies:
    http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-ch ... or-fallac/

    http://rawfoodsos.com/2014/03/09/new-an ... ein-study/

    Correlations between animal protein and cardiovascular disease:
    Myocardial infarction and coronary heart disease: +1
    Hypertensive heart disease: +25
    Stroke: +5

    Correlations between plant protein and cardiovascular disease:
    Myocardial infarction and coronary heart disease: +25
    Hypertensive heart disease: -10
    Stroke: -3

    "plant protein intake correlates positively with many of the “Western diseases” he blames cholesterol for—including +19 for colorectal cancers, +12 for cervix cancer, +15 for leukemia, +25 for myocardial infarction and coronary heart disease, +12 for diabetes, +1 for breast cancer, and +10 for stomach cancer

    "Casein proved to be so powerful in its effect that we could turn on and turn off cancer growth simply by changing the level consumed"

    It would be nice if there were more high-end gelatin / collagen options from other animals. Cows have been found to develop prion diseases, and these prions (I believe) have been found to be transmissible to humans. The risk from gelatin is likely near-zero, but I'm not sure if it is zero. A fully organic / pastured lamb hydrolyzed collagen / gelatin option would be nice.
  4. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Oct 15, 2016
    Differential effects of casein versus whey on fasting plasma levels of insulin, IGF-1 and IGF-1/IGFBP-3: results from a randomized 7-day supplement... - PubMed - NCBI

    Differential effects of casein versus whey on fasting plasma levels of insulin, IGF-1 and IGF-1/IGFBP-3: results from a randomized 7-day supplementation study in prepubertal boys.
    Hoppe C1, Mølgaard C, Dalum C, Vaag A, Michaelsen KF.
    Author information

    Milk increases both fasting insulin and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), and thereby growth, in healthy prepubertal boys. It is, however, unknown which components in milk are responsible for milk's growth-stimulating effect.

    To get closer to the identification of which components in milk that stimulate growth, we have performed an intervention study with 57 eight-year-old boys in which we examined the effects of the two major milk protein fractions, whey and casein, and milk minerals (Ca and P) in a 2 x 2 factorial design on IGFs and glucose-insulin metabolism. The amounts of whey and casein were identical to the content in 1.5 l skim milk. The amounts of Ca and P were similar to 1.5 l skim milk in the high-mineral drinks, whereas the amounts of Ca and P were reduced in the low-mineral drinks.

    There were no interactions between milk mineral groups (high, low) and milk protein groups (whey, casein). Serum IGF-1 increased by 15% (P<0.0001), whereas there was no change in fasting insulin (P=0.36) in the casein group. In the whey group, fasting insulin increased by 21% (P=0.006), with no change in IGF-1 (P=0.27). There were no independent effects of a high milk mineral intake on IGF-1 and insulin.

    The main milk protein fractions exhibit important but different growth-promoting effects by increasing either fasting insulin (whey) or IGF-1 (casein) levels.