Cascara - Harsh? Mild? Weak?

[healthnatura]

Cascara - Harsh? Mild? Weak?

Let me first say that I'm not a ray Peat expert and I don't pretend to speak for him in any way. What I'm sharing with you is based on my knowledge of the herb and how I would use it myself or with my clients. You or Ray Peat may disagree with me. Like in nature, rules on how an herb should be used are never truly set in stone, but function on a spectrum.

Individual responses to our cascara can vary quite widely. Some can only take very small doses and complain that it is too harsh, while others feel that it is weak and require larger doses to achieve the desired results. Because I don't make a habit of buying competitors herbs I honestly couldn't tell you how we compare to other brands. What I can tell you is that I go through an extensive selection process before I chose any product to add to my line. I look for quality of aroma, taste, lab results and and feedback from trial samples I send out to my network to try.

I believe my cascara is very balanced for a number of reasons. Lets go over a few of them.

1) It's the whole herb not a concentrate or extraction. Once it's ready my producer simply grinds it into a fine powder and sends it on. This can make it feel weaker than other versions that may be more concentrated.
2) Our cascara is grown in the USA in its native soils. I believe this makes for a better more balanced herb compared to cascara grown in other regions of the world.
3) Traditional ageing makes a big difference in the energy and quality of the chemical profile of the herb. Traditional ageing utilizes seasonal changes in temperature and humidity to naturally age and temper the herb. In our case a Native American method where it's harvested, cleaned and then left to age in a building that protects it from direct sunlight and rain is all that is done to it. After a full season has passed it's tested to see if the chemical profile is correct and if it is then off it goes to me and then you. If it isn't ready testing is done periodically till it reaches the proper specifications. Some companies use ovens to artificially heat and cool the herb to accelerate the ageing process and produce a cheaper herb. This makes for a very different herb even though it may have the same "chemical" profile.

Suggested usage:
Start low and build up. Some people overshoot the initial dose and get strong, even harsh feeling reactions. It's always easier to go up than it is to recover from an undesired reaction. If you choose a medium or large scoop with your order I will include a complementary small scoop so you can start with a low dose.

The dose that is right for you can be wildly different from your friends. I've seen doses range from half to one of our small 70mg scoops all the way up to several of our large 1000mg scoops daily. How much you take also depends on your therapeutic goals. Low doses below what would move your bowels tend to be more therapeutic for the organs like the liver, movement of the bile and exploiting the anti-microbial and bitter alkalizing qualities of the herb. Higher doses become more focused on the bowels and the herb tends to switch from being cool and bitter to hot and acrid as it stimulates the bowels in a more aggressive way. Bitter, cool herbs that act harshly on the body can create hot type reactions either because it is over stimulating the system or it is drawing the heat out. Harsh, hot reactions to bitter, cool herbs should be limited in duration or the dose should be dramatically reduced and cycled on and off to give the body time to recover.

Cascara Tea Tonic: 1 liter of hot, not boiling, water. Add 1/8th up to 1/2 teaspoon cascara. Allow to cool to room temperature and then chill. You can then take it as a cold or warm tea as desired. I recommend cold if your goal isn't loosening the bowels.

 

[tara]

post 100860 liter of hot, not boiling, water.

I've been boiling my cascara sagrada briefly. Do you think this is likely to reduce its beneficial action?

 

[healthnatura]

Personally I wouldn't boil the herb, but that is me and how I feel about all herbs. Like all tea hot not boiling water is usually sufficient. I don't think you have hurt your herb by boiling it but you may like trying it steeped in hot water. I expect you will find it more balanced. Whole pieces made into a tea or the bark chewed and held in the mouth are also ways it was traditionally used as an internal tonic. The bark was also made into a paste to use topically.

 

[Blossom]

I've been using your cascara powder periodically and find it milder in a positive way compared to other products I had previously tried. I just use the 300 mg scoop, empty the powder into my mouth and wash it down with some water. It works quite well for me using it this way.

 

[jyb]

Unlike some of the more popular over the counter herbs, often meant to stimulate the mind or lead to "hot reactions" or jitteriness, I find cascara works behind the scenes. Of course it is very bitter and can lead to fast bowel movements if taken in sufficient quantity, but it's all done without a sense of effort. Not something that would disturb my sleep if taken at night.

 

[SQu]

I'd love to know more about cascara. I've tried it in two forms and am most interested in it for its effects on my mood though I first took it for its laxative effect. The first form I tried was tincture. I'm not in the US and it's not widely used here. Tincture was all I could find. Expensive and no idea how much actual cascara I was getting. Nevertheless it lifted my mood , gave a sense of wellbeing, and was a gentle almost imperceptible but effective laxative. No cramping or discomfort at all. Then I got some of the whole ground herb, grown in the US, it came with a certificate of analysis. no mention or likelihood of aging. It is medium brown with a chestnut - slightly red or orange undertone. Still experimenting with dose but currently half teaspoon in hot water, let it cool and drink off liquid is what I'm doing and it feels like the laxative effect is overwhelming the other effects so I'll reduce dose further and try to find a balance. I'm interested in why it would improve mood and wellbeing , and assume it's because of the healing effect on the gut?

 

[charlie]

Ray Peat's article on cascara:

Cascara, energy, cancer and the FDA's laxative abuse
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... buse.shtml

 

[Makrosky]

What are your thoughts on cascara causing dependence? I've read it in many places during the last years.

 

[healthnatura]

SQu, you didn't mention the brand of herb you bought. If it's Health Natura I can give you more pointers because I know mine intimately. Cascara powders are not all created equal. All cascara has to be aged either naturally or artificially using ovens. There are also powdered concentrates where extracted tinctures are spray dried back onto the whole herb to make it stronger. Mine isn't concentrated or artificially aged. Yours is a wild card for me if it isn't my brand. Tinctures tend to be much weaker than powders in terms of total dose because you self regulate down to drops. With powders it's easy to really dose up and that is not always best, especially if your goal is more systemic and not bowels. I expect one or more of these factors is why you are having more bowel focused activity. If your goal is more systemic then I would make a weak tea like I described above. Chill it and only drink one shot glass (1 ounce) at a time. You can build up or drop down from there till your reach a point where you feel optimized.

Why it would have antidepressant qualities for you is an entirely different subject. To keep it brief, the family of bitter alkaline herbs like cascara is a part of all tend to have mood lifting properties because they alkalize the body and in this case aid in liver detoxification and reducing unhealthy flora in the gut. Acid conditions in the body tend to be more prone to depressive symptoms. Healthy flora in the digestive tract is responsible for well over half of the neurotransmitters produced in the body. These are my initial thoughts on mood and cascara. I'm sure there is much more to it than that. If someone knows more about cascara and mood I would love to see you chime in.

 

[healthnatura]

Kakrosky, When people talk about cascara dependence they usually are talking about the bowel stimulant properties of the herb. Dependence usually happens when cascara is used too long without breaks or when it is used exclusively for constipation without addressing other core issues that might be present. In an instance like this when cascara is stopped you get rebound constipation because the body is used to the extra stimulation and now has to do the job on its own. Most peoples reaction is to go back on it because "it worked for me". Swing back and forth like this along with ever increasing doses and you get a dependency like syndrome that isn't necessarily caused by the cascara itself but by an incomplete healing because other factors that have been overlooked. Most of the time you will not see dependency issues if you are taking cascara as a part of a more comprehensive bowel health program.

 

[moss]

post 101014 SQu, you didn't mention the brand of herb you bought. If it's Health Natura I can give you more pointers because I know mine intimately. Cascara powders are not all created equal. All cascara has to be aged either naturally or artificially using ovens. There are also powdered concentrates where extracted tinctures are spray dried back onto the whole herb to make it stronger. Mine isn't concentrated or artificially aged. Yours is a wild card for me if it isn't my brand. Tinctures tend to be much weaker than powders in terms of total dose because you self regulate down to drops. With powders it's easy to really dose up and that is not always best, especially if your goal is more systemic and not bowels. I expect one or more of these factors is why you are having more bowel focused activity. If your goal is more systemic then I would make a weak tea like I described above. Chill it and only drink one shot glass (1 ounce) at a time. You can build up or drop down from there till your reach a point where you feel optimized.

Why it would have antidepressant qualities for you is an entirely different subject. To keep it brief, the family of bitter alkaline herbs like cascara is a part of all tend to have mood lifting properties because they alkalize the body and in this case aid in liver detoxification and reducing unhealthy flora in the gut. Acid conditions in the body tend to be more prone to depressive symptoms. Healthy flora in the digestive tract is responsible for well over half of the neurotransmitters produced in the body. These are my initial thoughts on mood and cascara. I'm sure there is much more to it than that. If someone knows more about cascara and mood I would love to see you chime in.

Cascara is not for physiological problems of the bowel but more of a symptomatic relief and is not likely to be habit forming mainly due to its bitterness, however, one can get into the habit of taking it regularly due to lazy or congested bowels and warrants further investigation should constipation be an ongoing and chronic problem.
As heathnatura stated, ‘individual responses vary’ and therefore starting with a small dose is a safer bet.
Cascara is helpful for emptying of the bowels and can improve symptoms such as aches and pains in lower part of the spine (if constipated) and so emptying of the bowels daily would make sense to as to why it would ‘improve mood and wellbeing’ generally.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... buse.shtml
"An effective laxative (besides preventing inflammation) causes not only coordinated contraction of the smooth muscles of the intestine, but also adjusts secretions and absorption, so that an appropriate amount of fluid stays in the intestine, and the cells of the intestine don’t become water-logged."


Apparently there is a Cascara honey, has anyone tried this?

 

[SQu]

Thanks, very helpful. Worth trying less and seeing how it goes. I'll dig out that certificate for more clues as to origin.
The feeling of wellbeing starts very soon after drinking it, as soon as it hits the stomach I'd say. Or within minutes.
I am dealing with chronic constipation which is on the whole somewhat better since setting out to heal metabolism - except during stressful periods and bad hormonal patches . Managing it remains, for now, a daily concern. I have a long way to go. As a gut problem goes( around here anyway) it's pretty low key for which I'm grateful.