1. **NEW Mini Body Light** MBL1 - Orange & Red Light Therapy Mini Body Light
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Cholesterol Powder
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Pau D'arco Bark
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Metabasoap - Handcrafted Soap
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Cocoa Butter - Organic & Fair Trade Certified
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Orange & Red Light Therapy Device - LGS1
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Cascara Sagrada Powder From Farmalabor In Italy
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice

Cardenosine - Liquid Product For R&D

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Nice, I guess rice flour prices are on the rise.
     
  2. managing

    managing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,211
    Yeah, gonna give it one more try eventually since i have them, but really annoying when the raise the price and ruin the product simultaneously.

    Just to be clear, the above statement refers to Carlson, NOT Cardenosine.
     
  3. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,323
    on the wikipedia page it explains that metadoxine is actually b6 and "pyrrolidon carboxilate (PCA)", otherwise known as DL-Pyroglutamic acid . Are L-Pyroglutamic acid and DL-Pyroglutamic acid the same thing?
     
  4. meatbag

    meatbag Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    725
    @haidut Do you think something should be used to remove oils from the skin if used topically for this? Ive used a couple times and it seems to leave a film. I do think it is absorbing since the color goes away and it also seems to improve the skin quality at application site. Thanks for designing this product, it's very interesting.

    Also do you think using a product with SFA esters in the same area would boost absorption?
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Yes, they are. In fact L-pyroglutamic acid is the natural isomer. The DL signifies that it is a racemic mixture, which is much cheaper. The D isomer in amino acids is usually inactive. Since we use only the L isomer it is probably twice as potent as the DL mixture used in the commercial drug.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    It would probably help scrubbing the area with a bit of rubbing alcohol or even water before application. The SFA will probably hinder absorption as the ingredients in Cardenosine are water-soluble so they won't mix well with the SFA esters. Something like SolBan may work better and even increase absorption due to the aspirin in it.
     
  7. Broken man

    Broken man Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    501
    Gender:
    Male
    Hello all, I am using cardenosine for 2 days now so its little early to write about my experience with it but I was using very high doses of inosine before so I didnt expect much difference. I am very suprised to be honest, calmer, focused, pumped, hot headed (I mean that my head is really hot :D) . I will play fotball soon that is really important for me to figuring all the effects of cardenosine so will tell more later. I am curious about which way you all choose as the most practical for using cardenosine? I am for oral using now because the water is sliding from my hand even I washed it with soap but dont know how much I am losing of cardenosine effects because of lower absorption ? Please can @haidut chime in about how he was using it when experimenting? And wanted to write that I am currently using only 2 supps daily and 1 when needed and that is big success for me. Thank you so much all.
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Thanks for the feedback and please keep updating us!
    I was using it orally when I was testing it, at 40 drops daily dissolved in Pepsi/Coke.
     
  9. Broken man

    Broken man Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    501
    Gender:
    Male
    I am reading this thread over and over again and it seems that oral using is the most effective and practical for ATP production. Do you think that using like 500 mg of inosine and 10-20 drops of cardenosine could produce too much ATP ? Is B6 enough to prevent this? Thank you so much. For now, I am very happy and placed Cardenosine as supp number 1.
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    I doubt a situation of too much ATP can be reached with oral dosing. If ATP or the ingredients in Cardenosine are given IV then it is a possibility, but not very likely from oral use.
     
  11. Soren

    Soren Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    Messages:
    562
    Gender:
    Male
    Am applying cardenosine topically on scalp after wounding with dermaneedling once per week. I'm hoping to mimic the conditions that are seen with platelet rich plasma therapy (PRP).

    PRP contains growth factors such as (TGF-?), platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF), insulin-like growth factor (IGF), vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), epidermal growth factor (EGF), and fibroblast growth factor-2 (FGF-2).

    Does anyone know if the ingredients in cardenosine would enhance these growth factors after wounding?

    Although I think TGF has been implicated to be causative in balding but I am not sure.
     
  12. James b

    James b Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2018
    Messages:
    32
    Gender:
    Male

    Likewise to the above, Haidut. Could you please shed some light on the following:

    First bottle: dark in colour (see attached photo), viscous, bitter to taste. A single drop takes around 15 seconds to roll down my forearm.
    Second bottle: light in colour, a much thinner substance, maybe half as bitter as the original. A single drop takes around a second and a half to roll down my forearm.

    I'm not one who jumps on the bandwagon and enjoys disparaging people just for the sake of it - I've had great success with a number of your products. However, I am aware (directly and indirectly) that there's always an overwhelming incentive to fatten margins. These two bottles of the same product immediately strike me as different in a number of ways. The 'increased succinic acid' due to some being lost in precipitation, and the dropping of the Pyroglutamic acid by 30% in the new formulation (which as far as I can see wasn't mentioned) doesn't appear to account for all of the changes. I've decanted some of my excess Pyroglutamic acid into which I've had left over from another supplement range and it doesn't change the consistency or viscosity to distilled water (the only other listed ingredient, no tocopherol etc.) in the same way. Would you be able to shed some light, as I'm keen to account for the changes of the product despite the consistency of the price tag.

    For the record, anyone reading this, Haidut's products are some of the best that I've tried in over a decade. I'm more than happy to go over in detail the success that I've had with the original formulation of this product and several others.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Please do!
     
  14. James b

    James b Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2018
    Messages:
    32
    Gender:
    Male
    PM me mate
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    The first formulation of Cardenosine used pure pyroglutamic acid, which is not very soluble in water or ethanol and is very bitter/pungent tasting. The subsequent formulations use the magnesium salt of the pyroglutamic acid, which seems to be much more water-soluble. Also, because of the precipitation, we lowered the pyroglutamic acid (which we identified as the culprit) from 300mg per dose to 200mg per dose, but increased inosine from 50mg per dose to 100mg per dose. It is the pyroglutamic acid that causes the viscosity, so less of it per dose means less viscous fluid. Check the picture on the website, which still shows the original formulation and amounts. If you look around you will see that inosine is 4 times more expensive than pyroglutamic acid, so the changes balance each other out in favor of the client actually (in terms of cost of ingredients inside). See below for price comparisons of both pyroglutamic acid and inosine.
    Magnesium L-pidolate 98.0-102.0% (calc. on dry substance, T) | Sigma-Aldrich
    Inosine I4125

    You are not getting scammed. Not everything is a conspiracy improve the bottom line:): If something is not working well we try to improve it, hence the changes.
     
  16. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    846
    When it first came, it didn't have precipitate but recently the temperature dropped here, and now it does, so I heated it up to see if I could get whatever that was dissolved again.

    I didn't boil it, just warmed it for a couple minutes in a glass ramekin in my toaster oven, but the sediment is still there, but now it also has a different appearance to it.
    It is rather brown and separated looking instead of orange and gel like.

    Is it still ok to use? Will I still be getting ATP?

    Thanks
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    It is still OK to use. If you want, I can send you a bottle from the new batch, which does not precipitate.
     
  18. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    846
    Yeah, that'd be great.
     
  19. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Please email your last order number to the company email listed in your order.
     
  20. Mufasa

    Mufasa Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    380
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm wondering what the effects of this product are when applied topically on stiff muscles.
    I think Albert Szent-Gyorgyi did an experiment on hardened dead muscles and found that after bathing them in ATP they became tender again.
     
Loading...