Carbon Monoxide, Kmud, 2013

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  1. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

    Jan 1, 2013

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  2. OP

    burtlancast Member

    Jan 1, 2013
    Raymond Peat, Ph.D.

    Carbon Monoxide

    KMUD, 2013-01-18

    (transcribed by Giraffe, verified by Burtlancast)

    HD - Andrew Murray
    HD2 - Sarah Johanneson Murray
    RP - Ray Peat
    SE - Sound Engineer

    HD: Dr. Peat started doing work towards a better understanding of carbon monoxide and its implications in toxicology and pathogenesis of disease 30 years ago. So, Dr. Raymond Peat, thanks for joining us again.

    RP: There were a couple of topics that directed me towards carbon monoxide. I had previously been very interested in Otto Warburg's theory of cancer; and one of his experiments to study the respiratory enzyme involved poisoning that enzyme with carbon monoxide. So, I was aware that the most interesting enzyme of all happen to be specifically sensitive to carbon monoxide poisoning. And he found that light restored the activity of that enzyme. And that came back up in my intention when I was studying the toxic effects of the long Northern dark winters; lack of light exposure leading this enzyme susceptible to poisoning.

    HD: For people who just lunch in into the show the first time: Would you just give people an idea of your academic and professional background?

    RP: I went from teaching linguistics and humanity subjects right into graduate school in biology, because I wanted to understand how the brain works when it does things such as making language, or art, and so on. So I was studying nerve biology at the beginning, and found that that was a very dogmatic area (I think at every university, but including the University of Oregon, where I started in graduate school in 1968). So within six months I had switched over to the other end of the organism, reproductive physiology and how aging affects that.

    HD: Neuro-degenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease relate very intimately with carbon monoxide, which can exacerbate them, isn't it?

    RP: Yah, they find that old brains in general have increased amounts of the enzyme that produces carbon monoxide in the tissues. Any tissue can produce it; but stress increases the amount of the enzyme. So the more stress there is, the more risk there is of poisoning itself. Not only increasing age increases the enzyme, but they find that schizophrenic brains have increased amounts of the enzyme making carbon monoxide. Alzheimer's brains [too]. And in Parkinson's brains, in the particular area affected by the Parkinson's disease, they see an increased amount of the enzyme. And in breaking down heme, which is his basic purpose, it releases iron as well as carbon monoxide. And deposits of iron are found in Parkinson's brain in that area.

    HD: The enzyme is called heme oxygenase, isn't it?

    RP: Yah.

    HD: What is it doing?

    It attaches oxygen atoms to the heme molecule (which is what carries oxygen in hemoglobin). And the heme molecule is what binds iron. And that, in turn, binds oxygen. But carbon monoxide is similar enough electrically to oxygen. It can outbind oxygen in the hemoglobin and displace it.

    HD2: So we can be exposed to carbon monoxide from external sources like burning fuel, but this is something that is also happening in our bodies due to an enzyme?

    RP: Yah. It's just the only way the body has to get rid of unused, or inappropriately released hemoglobin. Any time a tissue is injured and leaks blood, the hemoglobin is potentially very toxic in itself. So, to detoxify this hemoglobin which would act as an enzyme (just wildly consuming oxygen), the enzyme is there in every injured tissue that tends to bleed, or release heme, to destroy the heme and turn it into things that can be recycled: such as the iron atom and the carbons from the heme molecule.

    HD2: So this enzyme has a function in damaged tissue to help mop up the waste products. But in certain brain situations, as in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, it's present in excessive amounts.

    RP: Yah, apparently because of chronic stress. And another brain situation in which they find it exactly associated with the problematic cells in the brain... multiple sclerosis; in the plaques, they find increased amounts of the enzyme making the carbon monoxide. About 20 years ago, I had gotten away from the “cancer-carbon monoxide“ connection for several years, because I couldn't find anyone willing to listen to the idea that it was such a neat idea to explain how the Warburg cancer theory works. But I came back to it in the 90’s, applying it to multiple sclerosis, because the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning are very similar to those of multiple sclerosis.

    HD: Go ahead and describe them.

    RP: Plaques tend to form in the brain, and every place there is a plaque, the blood vessels become leaky, and proteins leak out into the brain and are part of the inflammatory process. And the carbon monoxide activates those same processes. Tendency to clot; tendency of blood vessels to become leaky and let things inappropriately seep out. So that any time you have a situation of leaky blood vessels... Injured liver, for example, leaking its enzymes... inflamed muscles leaking enzymes and proteins... heart attack leaking its substances: you find heme oxygenase and carbon monoxide there, making the cells more permeable and leaky.

    HD: Is carbon monoxide produced by tumors, too?

    RP: Yah. And in transplanting a tumor into an animal, they found that it had many toxic effects on the animal. For years, they talked about a toxic hormone or a cancer hormone. In one set of experiments, they gave a chemical to the animal receiving the tumor implant, a chemical [that] would inhibit heme oxygenase and stop the formation of carbon monoxide; and it stopped the toxic effects of the transplant.

    HD2: Is that useful for a potential anti-cancer treatment?

    RP: Yah. There were several groups working on it. They can stop cancer growth like, for a week at a time, with an injection of one of the chemicals that just turns off heme oxygenase. And they are designing many chemicals that will do it; for example, reverse structure RNA molecules that interfere with the production of the enzyme very specifically.

    HD2: So then this would have possible applications with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's as well, if it is actually turning off that enzyme?

    RP: Yah, all of the degenerative stress-related diseases: cancer and the brain aging...

    HD2: Atherosclerosis...

    RP: ... and arthritis involves excess carbon monoxide, too.

    HD: You mentioned that this enzyme, heme oxygenase, is part of our body. And every cell has the ability to break down the products of hemoglobin into iron and carbon monoxide, and then there is a pigment called bilirubin. So this is happening. Our blood cells are turning over every 90 days, and the spleen mops up these blood cells constantly, breaking down the red blood cells into byproducts like the hemoglobin and carbon monoxide and bilirubin, 24/7. So this is the process that is happening in our bodies anyway. What's the mechanism behind by which were are protected from the carbon monoxide?

    RP: Well, one design feature is having it all happen in the spleen: it keeps it away from your brain, and heart, and reproductive organs, and so on.

    HD: What about these people who had a spleenectomy (where it's been taken out, or ruptured, or damaged)? They don't have one?

    RP: I don't know exactly what the consequences are; but you would think that it would expose the other tissues more to the effects of chronic stress.

    HD2: What about if someone has an enlarged spleen? Are they able to do that much better, or? Usually, enlarged spleens are indicating liver disease, or other problems.

    RP: Yah. I imagine that, as long as it's confined to the spleen... That's the main purpose of the organ; to keep it happening somewhere where the carbon monoxide has a chance to diffuse away in the blood stream, before it gets to the organs.

    HD2: Dilute it...

    HD: Let's talk about monoxide exposure. A byproduct of the incomplete combustion of propane is carbon monoxide. Environmental pollution from traffic exhaust is high in carbon monoxide. That's basically what we are looking at. Smoking is another good example of carbon monoxide exposure.

    HD2: And even wood smoke too, right, Dr. Peat?

    RP: Yah. A bad stove or fireplace can put out a huge amount of carbon monoxide. And even if you have a perfectly adjusted gas stove, if you put a cold pan down on the burner so that the flame touches it, cooling of the flame is going to make it release carbon monoxide.

    HD: You were consulting with someone, and they were lucky enough to get their hands on a good carbon monoxide meter. Just talk about that a little.

    RP: They were all having symptoms. And they noticed that they were worse in the winter when the house was tightly closed up. And they happened to have access to a very sensitive meter that would measure down to a few parts per million [ppm]. And they found that just 15 minutes of having the stove on, the burners were producing 18 ppm and the oven 29 ppm. It's a matter of how long you keep breathing it. Because if it fluctuates, then you have a chance to breathe it out as well as breathe it in.

    In one particular experiment with rats they exposed the rats to the supposedly upper safe limit for human exposure in cities, 50 ppm. In just one hour of exposure the rats brains were structurally damaged.

    HD: So they were getting an infarct?

    RP: No, much less. Just small cellular changes.

    HD: So that's the beginning of something worse.

    RP: Yah.

    HD2: And that is the level in a lot of cities, right? 50 ppm?

    RP: Yah, it comes and goes. They saw permanent changes in prolonged exposure to even lower amounts in the animals, 30 ppm for example.

    HD2: So, the average housewife, who spends all their time cooking over a stove ( sorry, that's not the average housewife)? She could be exposed to a lot more than healthy levels ? Because gas stoves could be emitting a large quantity of carbon monoxide?

    RP: Yah. And the symptoms are very rarely associated with carbon monoxide poisoning because that's part of this...

    HD: *interrupts Peat* [talks about the person in a garage with a rubber pipe coming out of their car exhaust car, engine running]

    RP: Yah, and for many years doctors thought only in terms of the blood being saturated with carbon monoxide and not being able to deliver oxygen to the tissues. But the carbon monoxide goes right into all of the tissues. And we‘ve got many, many enzymes that use heme. It isn't just the blood and myoglobin. But, for example, the enzymes that make steroids use the heme group. And so, the most intense symptom of getting your tissue saturated is you poison the energy producing enzyme. But very moderate amounts of chronic poisoning will shut down your ability to produce steroids, so that the testosterone level, for example, falls with chronic carbon monoxide poisoning. But interestingly, the adrenal cortical steroids are increased under the stimulation, because the adrenals are designed to recognize a stress emergency situation, which carbon monoxide is. But the actual enzymes that produce the bulk of steroids are blocked by carbon monoxide.

    HD: The thing with cook stoves is that a poorly adjusted flame in a stove is a main source of carbon monoxide emission from propane burning appliances. An orangy type of flame instead of an blue or violet one, together with the presence of soot deposits around the nozzle, is pretty diagnostic of incomplete combustion.
    But you are saying if you put a cold pan of water on a stove (actually on the burner) there is sufficient cooling there to cool the flame to the point where there would be incomplete combustion an carbon monoxide generated.

    RP: Yah, and typically you see a little bit of the flame turning yellow where it hits the pan.

    HD2: The other point about this carbon monoxide emissions from propane stoves, is that people's houses are becoming more and more airtight. Will this cause more Alzheimers ?

    RP: The first symptoms are often so light people just think they have a chronic cold. Or sometimes, people get anxious or depressed. Some people have crawling sensations on their skin, muscle cramps, heart arrhythmia. Practically any symptom you can think of. It's a well-known sign of carbon monoxide poisoning, but it's just very rare for anyone to think of it when they have the symptoms.

    HD2: What about those gas-powered heaters you see in a lot of people's houses?

    RP: A lot of people used to have them even without vents.

    HD2: Or these ones in England, people have them in the house that don't have any vents.

    RP: Yah, the same as a gas cooking stove.

    HD: Another thing to cover, too, is the government regulations concerning the presence of carbon monoxide detectors in houses now. Can you talk about industry‘s limits associated with them ?

    RP: Years ago I bought one of the cheap meters and was testing it on various things. And nothing would register. So I put it into the garage with the car running, and left it for about half an hour. Still nothing happened.
    I learned that the industry and the government require that they not sound an alarm unless the concentration is reaching the life-threatening point. So, if it's a low level, below 50 ppm, one of the standards says that it has to stay at that concentration for 48 hours steadily before the alarm can sound.

    HD2: So what would that do to your brain if you had 50 ppm steadily for 48 hours?

    RP: I think they require the alarm to sound after 30 to 60 minutes, of a 50 ppm concentration. They‘ve got the charts published. It's definitely not a healthy concentration. But they don't want you bothering the fire department anytime you‘re just getting a burst of 70 ppm, because it won't kill you soon.

    HD2: Or complaining to your range manufacturer.

    RP: Yah.

    HD2: So what about this meter that you said is very, very sensitive. What's the name of this meter?

    RP: I've seen it on the internet. I don't know the brand. One company that makes them is Kidde.

    HD: They manufacture smoke alarms, too.

    RP: I think it was their company that had one for 340 dollars, that actually registered down in ppm, which is exactly useful because...

    HD: Right and in real time.

    RP: Yah. If you breathe out, a healthy person will make less than 1 ppm exhalation. If they are very sick and under stress, they might go up to 5 ppm, just from their internal production.

    HD: Smoking exposes a smoker to about 500 ppm carbon monoxide from a cigarette.

    RP: Yah, in that little stream.

    HD: So, let's try to be comparative here. In terms of incomplete combustion, from a propane stove. And you said 28ppm for the oven, and 18 for the burners.

    RP: If you had that concentration of a cigarette in your room air, you'd be dead pretty quick.

    HD2: At 500 ppm.

    RP: Yeh. Because you are breathing quarts of air for every puff of smoke.

    HD: So it's very diluted. So what do you think the concentration in a quarter of a puff is?

    RP: Probably 30, 40, or 50ppm. Somewhere around that.

    HD2: So if you are standing around your oven, it could be just a bad as smoking cigarettes?

    RP: Definitely in some houses.

    HD2: If they aren't well adjusted.

    HD: Let's take this first caller. Hi, you are on the air.

    Caller: [talks about fibrosis and hepatitis] What does Dr. Peat recommend as a liver cleanse?

    RP: The thyroid is the essential thing for energizing the burning of any fuel. If your thyroid function is low, your liver is, in a way, the first organ to feel it, because the liver stores sugar. And if you are wasting energy, your liver fails to store sugar and becomes inefficient, eventually fibrotic, and so on.

    Caller: [asks about thyroid meds]

    RP: There are two main chemicals that are called the thyroid hormone. One is thyroxine (T4) and the other one it triiodothyronine (T3). The traditional product was just dried thyroid gland.

    Caller: You actually take the gland itself?

    RP: Yah. People used to eat the whole animal.

    HD2: In England you can still go to the butcher. They call them “sweetbreads“ and they are thymus and thyroid gland [actually, that’s incorrect: they are the thymus and pancreas mainly, with sometimes the parotids, the sublingual glands, or the testicles].

    Caller: What should I do here, in this country?

    RP: The main dietary things that suppress the thyroid function are the polyunsaturated fatty acids. And that's why I've mentioned the importance of saturated fats, such as coconut oil and butter, and sugar as a way to make your own fat; to avoid the dietary oils, such as safflower, soy, corn oil and so on, which are anti-thyroid. [Also] fish-oil.

    HD2: Avoid all liquid oils. Only do butter and coconut oil.

    HD: One more caller? You are on the air.

    Caller: How does warmth sunny weather help with hypothyroidism?

    RP: Just getting warm lowers the stress hormones. And so it gives your body a chance to recover. But if you haven't changed your diet that was causing the problem, then cold weather or other stress will tend to bring back the hypothyroidism.

    HD2: Don't reduced daylight hours make your cells less able to pick up thyroid hormone?

    RP: Yah, the mitochondria, that I was talking about; the toxic effects of darkness. The thyroid is trying to keep those mitochondria functioning. And during the darkness, the various toxins, including carbon monoxide, interrupt the function of the mitochondrion. And that means it blocks the function of the thyroid. But if you increase your thyroid, you can compensate a little bit for that disruption during the darkness.

    In animal experiments, they found that removing a rat's thyroid gland, they would have to give four times as much supplement in the winter as in the summer, because of the increased stress of the dark days. When I tested it on myself, it was exactly four times requirement difference according to the season.

    HD2: But if you asked your doctor, they wouldn't recommend you increasing your thyroid medication four times in the winter months versus the summer. So, you have to follow your own symptoms.

    Caller: So, it's almost as if the thyroid is being wasted on trying to help the mitochondria when they are getting less light?

    RP: It does spend more of the thyroid substance, and get it thrown off. But if you have you tissue well saturated with the safe nutrients, rather than the dangerous polyunsaturated oils, your mitochondria are much tougher. They‘ve found that you can remove the mitochondria from an animal that hasn't had those unsaturated fats, and mitochondria survive in a test tube much longer and are more vigorous. So it's the polyunsaturated fats that make the mitochondria so susceptible to injury.

    HD: Do you think that‘s because of the lipid membrane that the mitochondria is surrounded by, made up of saturated oils that don't oxidize like polyunsaturated ?

    RP: Yah, the very structure...You can extract all of the fat from a cell, and it still has the mitochondrial structure in shape, because it's mostly protein that gives the structure. And those proteins are tightly interacting with fats; and a lot of those are unsaturated. So, if you get too many unsaturated ones, they oxidize and damage the proteins. So it's the mixture of protein and fat.

    HD2: Let's explain for our listeners who might not have heard of mitochondria: That's what we call the powerhouse of the cell; it's what produces energy. So, without mitochondria, you'd have no energy; you wouldn't be alive. It's actually the part of the cell that makes all your energy. And thyroid hormone helps bring oxygen to the cell and helps to activate the mitochondria. So it's all linked to having the cell function properly; thyroid and adequate oxygen, and the mitochondria producing the energy called ATP.

    RP: And adequate light is part of it.

    HD: You‘ve mentioned Otto Warburg and his work in 1926 on cancer and defective respiratory enzymes. You said that when these animals had been poisoned with carbon monoxide (and you mentioned it many times in the context of radiation and other damaging substances) the animals could recover completely when bright orange light was shined on them.

    RP: Warburg was just using tissues isolated from animals; but Russians where the ones that used whole animals. They would give them a killing dose of gamma-rays; and if they very quickly (within an hour) flooded them with red light, it inactivated the effects of the radiation. So it wasn't the radiation itself [causing the damage]; it was the cascade of chemical events that could be interrupted by the red light. And when you get sunburned, part of that cascade of events is the production of carbon monoxide.

    HD: Let's take the next caller.

    Caller: Hello. I wanted to go back to the topic of polyunsaturated fats, and I wondered if they feed chickens (even organic ones) with say, lots of cottonseed oil, or grains? Are we getting polyunsaturated fats if we eat them?

    RP: Yea. Any animal that isn't a ruminant will express in its tissues pretty exactly the balance of fats in its food. And that includes people, and pigs, and chickens.

    HD2: And ducks, and geese, and turkeys.

    RP: Yah, but sheep, and cows, and camels, for example, will produce milk that has almost, about 98% of the bad fats have been destroyed by bacteria in their rumens. So, that it's 98% mono-unsaturated, or saturated, or the trans-fat variations (conjugated linoleic acid, for example, which is actively being sold as an anticancer weight loss agent; but you find it naturally in butter and milk).

    HD2: And also that does include elk, antelope, deer,...

    Caller: All those animals have a fat that can gel at room temperature.

    HD2: Yes, because they have more than one stomach to digest food and to convert the fat.

    Caller: But when you see chickens, they have such soft, almost runny fat.

    HD2: Because it's very polyunsaturated; because they are eating corn and soy meal.

    RP: It's the same with pig fat. When my grandmother used it, it was a solid like butter. Even most researchers have been calling it a saturated fat (now for 50 years). A couple of years ago, someone bothered to analyze it, and found that it was 30% PUFA.

    HD2: We had some friends who butchered a pig that was fed mostly apples and vegetables (green waste) from their farm, and they had a 70 pound pig, and 30 pound of it was fat and 40 pounds was meat. And it was all solid.

    Caller: So that would be like good quality lard.

    RP: Yea. That's the way to make good eggs too. To feed them lots of vegetable matter.

    HD2: Because the sugars will cause the animals to make saturated fats. So, if you feed your animals your excess food in the fall, which is what was happening with this pig, then they all tend to make saturated fat out of that sugar.

    Caller: Thank you for your answers.

    HD: You are welcome. Let's take the next caller.

    Caller: People keep telling me I shouldn't eat butter because of the cholesterol, and you tell me butter is good for me. What's all that?

    HD2: [chukles] It's brainwashing. They wanted to sell margarine.

    RP: A researcher in India noticed that in his area where people eat a lot of butter, alcoholics didn't get hepatitis and cirrhosis. So he did a study with rats and fed them butter and lots of alcohol, and they didn't get hepatitis and cirrhosis.
    A group has been researching that now for about 25 years, showing that fish oil and unsaturated vegetable oil interact with a little bit of alcohol to activate iron, causing oxidative damage, liver inflammation, and fibrosis. But if you have practically an unsaturated fat-free diet, alcohol is really pretty harmless.

    HD2: And didn't they do that study in Chicago as well, 30 years ago?

    RP: Yah, Nangi is the name of the main researcher.

    HD: We do have another caller on the air. Let's get this next caller.

    Caller: I’ve had quadruple bypass surgery, and was introduced to this Dean Ornish diet. It’s a vegetarian diet that claims fish fat is good for you; but saturated fat itself isn’t good at all, and that you should stay away from any saturated fat. No dairy or meat either. I’m very confused.

    RP: There is now a lot of stuff on the internet. Chris Masterjohn, for example, has some very good review articles dealing with topics like that. I’ve got a couple of articles on cholesterol on my website.

    HD: Caller, you should google Chris Masterjohn, and Dr. Raymond Peat's website is, and he has a lot of articles there that you can read that might explain the confusion.

    HD2: He specifically said, he has got articles on cholesterol. Research has shown, that if you are eating the unsaturated fatty acids, those go rancid in your blood stream and damage your arteries. And then your body needs to stop that massive free radical reaction where it's consuming oxygen and going rancid; so your body puts a cholesterol bandage over the rancid oil. Japanese scientists have found that when they remove that cholesterol bandage, they find a plaque of oxidized omega-6 oils. There is lots of research showing that this is actually what causes damage to the arteries; and it's not at all the saturated fats, because saturated fats are very stable and would not create a free radical reaction like that.

    HD: Let's take the next caller. You are on the air.

    Caller: You talked about the liver and how saturated fats protect it from alcohol. Is butter bad for your arteries and your cholesterol?

    RP: The same things that applies to the liver applies exactly to the arteries, except the arteries are the first place that the unsaturated, oxidized fats will injure.

    Caller: Why do people think that butter and animal fats will clog your arteries?

    RP: Because of 50 years of propaganda from the seed oil industry, basically.

    Caller: So you are basically saying that unsaturated fats will clog your arteries quicker than butter?

    RP: Yah.

    HD2: Exactly. It's when the seed oil industry was unable to sell their oils to the paint companies (because the paint companies started buying their oils from the petroleum industry), they needed to market their corn and soy oil to humans, because there was no other market for it. And that's when Mr. Mazola would drink a cup of corn oil and say, "It's great stuff! It lowers your cholesterol.". And he unfortunately died at a very young age of a heart attack. So, it causes such an arterial blockage... But, basically, they needed to sell their oils, and they boycotted all tropical oils ( palm oil, coconut oil, which will not cause heart attack) and promoted corn oil. And there you have it.

    Caller: What about olive oil?

    HD2: Olive oil is only 10% polyunsaturated and 90% mono-unsaturated. So it‘s not going to block your arteries, like the other liquid oils. But you don't want to use it in excessive amounts, because it is still 10% polyunsaturated.

    Caller: So you are saying the butter is the healthiest? Or coconut oil ?

    HD2: Butter, coconut, palm and saturated fats from animals like beef and lamb.

    HD: Thanks for your call. We have another caller on the air. Let's get this next one.

    Caller: What is protective against EMF? I‘ve heard that crystals are effective in blocking the bad effects from laptops.

    RP: It takes something that is basically covering the space between you and the source geometrically. Something that is a small area just can't catch a broad emission coming at you.

    HD2: So they have something like Blocsocks for your cell phone. The side of your cell phone has an antenna that radiates to get its signal. If you put that Blocsock that has this metal barrier next to your body and the phone faces out, then it's not going to be penetrating you the same way as if you didn't have that Blocsock.

    Caller: Just to reiterate. How exactly do you protect yourself from EMF of the laptop computer?

    RP: Just think of it as light that‘s coming from your computer, or whatever. If the light is touching some important part of your body, the microwaves (light) are going to be following the line of sight. So you need something basically as big as the object emitting to catch the radiation.

    Caller: So are you suggest to place the laptop on a table and not using it on top your lap.

    RP: Yah, the lap is not a good place to keep a radiant source.

    HD: Potentially, you could use an external keyboard and put the laptop underneath the table, or in a slot like that, block the EMF from the laptop, and then use a monitor also connected to your laptop. You could just use the laptop as the processor. You can also use an EMF monitor, and see that 6 inches away from the laptop, it stops registering radiation.

    HD2: You could also use an external monitor. Keep the laptop and the monitor as far away from your body as possible.

    RP: We could make the connection between the connections about the unsaturated fat and the fact that fish oil happens to be one of the very best activators of the heme oxygenase, which makes carbon monoxide. And in proportions to how polyunsaturated the fats is, it activates the production of carbon monoxide.

    HD2: So if someone had Alzheimer's and they are taking fish oils, that's a really bad combination?

    RP: Yes.

    HD: And yet, fish oils are advertised for treating Alzheimer, chronic obstructive lung disease, atrial fibrillation, and other cardiovascular disorders. We have one quick question about horse meat. Is that good or bad?

    RP: It depends on what the horse is eating; but it will reflect exactly what the horse ate. So it's very likely to be fairly unsaturated. In some countries they feed them, for example, dates ( a major food in Iraq). And they would have a very saturated fat if they ate dates.

    HD: Thanks so much for joining us again, Dr. Peat.

    RP: OK. Thank you.
  3. GAF

    GAF Member

    Dec 28, 2014
    Dallas Texas
  4. GAF

    GAF Member

    Dec 28, 2014
    Dallas Texas
    Technology | Globin Solutions, Inc.

    Here is the company bringing this to market.

    It appears to me that CO accumulates in tissues and may be responsible for poisoning all of us. That is the aging process.

    CO must go and we might want to focus on this topic. RP may be on to something here.