Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of fru

Discussion in 'Andrew Kim' started by Birdie, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Latest on Andrew's blog:

    (Link Removed due to request from Andrew Kim)
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Direct link:

    Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of fructose
    (Link Removed due to request from Andrew Kim)
     
  3. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Thanks Charlie! This is more specific, but I kinda liked the above one, too, which shows some earlier articles some might have missed. :)
    I think I missed Jan 3. I'm about to go find out.
     
  4. Isadora

    Isadora Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    This is not entirely on topic, but I have a nagging curiosity: why does Andrew Kim never mention Ray Peat in his writing? I may not be a scientist, but it seems pretty clear to me that his views are quite close to Peat's. Is it my imagination? I like reading him and it bothers me to keep perceiving RP echoes on his blog, while a local search on the man's name brings nothing much and Kim doesn't include any of Peat's books or at least articles on his "Recommended Reading" list...
     
  5. gretchen

    gretchen Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    I was wondering the same thing. I think he is Peat inspired ; he has those orange and sugar cube graphics on his blog. Not sure though why there's no mention.
     
  6. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Andrew was in the RP Fans group. I've just always thought of him that way.
    The moment he joined there, I zapped him as a friend and never looked back.

    Why not ask him and let us know how it goes?
     
  7. Isadora

    Isadora Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Ask him on his blog, you mean? Stop by his "house" and drop an innocent question? :) Well, I am not sure... He can consider himself asked in a public setting, this is as good a place as any, I guess... If he joins RP Fans (I'm not sure what you mean by that) why not act like a fan, why look all RP-independent? Give credit where credit is due! We need intellectual honesty in this field... And nutrition should be the new astrophysics, to paraphrase Peat.

    Who else do you think is not giving Peat sufficient credit, while echoing his views and having studied his work, in your opinion?
     
  8. Andrew Kim

    Andrew Kim Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Hi Isadora,

    I initially found Danny Roddy's website, and thereafter, Peat's site. I joined the general group on Facebook, like Birdie said on my behalf. If you're insinuating that I'm being less than honest and not giving credit where credit is due, I don't think you've read my blog closely enough. Of late, on the request of people, I've been writing extensively about sugar, starches, & fruit, and the position I've taken in writing these posts derive from my own experiences & research.

    Dr. Peat did inspire me with regard to my stance on carbon dioxide, which I previously, like most people invariably do, thought of as a waste product, as well as the central role of energy generation. Danny Roddy has also pointed me to resources that I'd never been exposed to before in school, and because of this, I've been putting more attention than I had before on stress & the thyroid gland. These ideas & concepts, in one way or another, have been threads that have run through my blog posts.

    I initially had a list of other Dr. Peat-inspired blogs as one of the tabs at the top of my blog but I replaced it with a "recommended reading" tab. I figure, if people want to know more about Dr. Peat's work, read his free articles, instead of summaries of it. The "recommended reading" tab has also assumed this position because it provides context for some of my free-flowing blog posts.

    But at this point, I don't think I need to point out the fact that my blog is Peat-inspired. Simply judging by the Peat-inspired blogs that have listed my blog as a resource, I think its obvious to most people by now.

    Anyway, if you feel I'm not giving credit where credit is due, or if you feel like I'm usurping undue license in the way I incorporate some of Dr. Peat's ideas, I'm sorry. In principle, I don't feel like I should be sprinkling Dr. Peat's name into my blog wherever I incorporate an idea of his, and frankly, I find it insulting that you'd make an insinuation that fringes on an accusation of plagiarism.

    My blog is a free service and its been a product of lots of my work, effort, & time. I also devote a big chunk of my time daily answering emails for free. I think your attempt at self-righteously calling-me-out is misdirected; why not go after the people who rip off Dr. Peat's work to make a quick buck?


    Best,

    Andrew
     
  9. Isadora

    Isadora Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    I did read some of it, but nowhere did I find references to Ray Peat. Your discourse is scientific, so it's normal that you should "drop names" -- we would like to know the origin of those ideas and what you think of the work of those who wrote on similar subjects before you did. To this moment, I still don't know whether you have read Dr. Peat's books, for instance. Have you? If not, why not?

    I like your voice, I think there is great future and value in what you are doing. I want to trust you and I need to know where you come from.

    I also feel a bit offended when I see you relate deferentially to Dr. Jaminet, and never in that manner to Dr. Peat. Dr. Jaminet must have read Dr. Peat, too. I think I have seen him refer to Dr. Peat on his site -- but, alas, not so much in his successful book. And again, I wonder why.

    You recommend seven books in your "Recommended Reading" tab, none of which is Peat's.

    If you sense some anger in my approach, it is because I resent having found Peat's work so late, while it seems more and more obvious to me that many people on the "diet scene" have read and incorporated some of his thinking into their work without mentioning loud and clear for the benefit of us all who the man is and where we can find him for ourselves. Sometimes it looks like he is some of the newly anointed diet gurus' best kept secret and I am glad that people like Danny Roddy and Josh Rubin have made him more popular via discussion groups and forums.

    Yes, but where is the man's name, where are the links to his articles, where are the quotes from his work?

    I don't know what you had in the past, I never saw anything of the kind and a search after Peat's name returns two measly references in a discussion. Not good... I'd fix that if I were you.

    (Dr.) Kim, you fail to see that someone who is new to this and goes from link to link on the net may read your blog and not realize there is a Dr. Peat somewhere who may have inspired you. Not fair.

    No, plagiarism is not my concern. I think your work is there to stay and I think it should be cross-referenced correctly and fairly. You might argue it is just a blog, but your scientific tone kind of pushes one to look for sources and I think you should honor that need your readers might develop while following your ideas. It would be a pity not to.

    Thank you for your work, I really enjoyed reading you otherwise!

    Isadora
     
  10. Dorito Loyalist

    Dorito Loyalist Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    "Anyway, if you feel I'm not giving credit where credit is due, or if you feel like I'm usurping undue license in the way I incorporate some of Dr. Peat's ideas, I'm sorry. In principle, I don't feel like I should be sprinkling Dr. Peat's name into my blog wherever I incorporate an idea of his, and frankly, I find it insulting that you'd make an insinuation that fringes on an accusation of plagiarism."

    Congrats on having the good sense to steer clear of fanboyism.
     
  11. gabriel79

    gabriel79 Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    To be honest, if I want to read a quote by Peat, I go directly to raypeat.com What I like about Kim´s blog is that he gets to many of the same conclusions by referencing to studies and via his own way of research. I wouldn´t like to go circularly between Peat and other´s blog that use Peat as source. That´s for example why I´m no fan of Danny Roddy´s blog. The only reason I still read it is that he sometimes quotes Peat ideas from his newsletters or mail that I don´t have.
     
  12. frustrated

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    LOL. Dude. If you think Andrew needs to say,"I got this idea from Ray Peat" you are in over your head -- "I may not be a scientist" answers your concerns. Andrew's blog is quite frankly more readable than Peat's site.

    I can assure you Dr. Peat would infinitely prefer "his" ideas being discussed, with no mention of his name, than have them sold as The Peat Whisper.
     
  13. frustrated

    frustrated Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    I'm actually still laughing that you wrote all that out instead of just pulling your head out of your ass and apologizing.
     

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  14. Isadora

    Isadora Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Yeah, because you know there is such a place as raypeat.com -- you wouldn't figure that out from Mr. Kim's blog, would you now? And how is that fair?

    @ Dorito Loyalist: Oh, so now Peat is a "fanboy" of Selye and Ling? And all those scientists who keep quoting one another's work in the elaborate references they offer are "fanboys" of each other? Only Kim stood tall and was his own person? I never thought of things that way.

    @frustrated: Dude, is that how it works? You just want readability and don't give a damn about accountability and fair crediting in scientific writing?

    Don't worry about my "writing all that", writing comes natural to me. In fact, I find it so easy to write that I am going to show you how hacking is done on the diet book scene. In real time, on this forum, if nobody minds.

    I shall write my own READABLE PEAT-INSPIRED diet book, SCIENCE-BASED, with lots of PubMed references and not even quoting Peat ONCE!

    Check back soon.

    I am not the one in need to apologize.
     
  15. frustrated

    frustrated Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Andrew literally can't reference Peat, because Peat has only published one, obscure, academic paper. Where as people like Ling are easy to reference -- he has published several papers, that are relevant. Using Peat's articles as a reference for any claim you make is very weak academically. In other words, Andrew's blog has a lot of value because he doesn't rely on "because peat says so".

    Though, from what I understand, you think Andrew needs to explicitly say he was inspired by Peat, because it looks like he's stealing Peat's Ideas? I don't see why and I don't think it's fair to suggest this. As soon as you say "I am inspired by Peat" you start to look like a biased individual who is trying to justify whatever Peat says (have you heard of the term Peatard?) Or you will get people showing up on your blog calling you an idiot for thinking aids is caused by hypothyroidism.

    Perhaps if Andrew was selling a book, or an $800 ecourse, maybe he should -- though I have doubts Peat would like his name attached to either.
     
  16. cliff

    cliff Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Why doesn't andrew link to peat in his recommended reading?

    You don't have to say your inspired by peat but if your rehashing a lot of his ideas it would be nice to at least link to his website, maybe he does but I can't find it?

    Not giving credit to peat in hopes that others won't judge you is such a ***** thing to do.
     
  17. Isadora

    Isadora Member

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    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    So you're telling me that in the scientific community Peat is viewed as an outcast, someone like Candace Pert or Bruce Lipton, for instance? Or even worse, because those guys didn't go as far as to challenge the very existence of a cell membrane and they got more peer reviewed articles published, right?

    What if Peat is a marginalized genius?

    More and more people figure out that he may have been right in many of his assumptions. Too many for comfort, actually...

    Even scientists, like Kim. But, oh, he is so unfashionable to quote! Who'd want to be labeled a "Peatard"? What would peer reviewers say? They look at references first, so if Peat's name is there, we're instantly toast! Scientific suicide for the sake of what, of... Truth? No way!

    So let's pretend Peat never wrote a thing and that we are scientifically Peat-free, like Aphrodite rising from the foam of our own young observations and perceptions and (non-Peatard) reading.

    How is Peat not a genius or at least an honest scientist and Kim not a hack in this case?

    You say Peat would rather see his ideas get wings and be served by other young scientists and that he would definitely prefer to not be quoted? How do you know that? Is Peat not even human? That could be an explanation for his courage and totally out-of-the box thinking...

    But even so, I am personally offended by a Peat-inspired blog that doesn't mention him. It is weak per se and a dead end for the non-connoisseur, even if you call it "scientifically stronger". I would have never changed my diet based just on Kim's advice, or even Jaminet's, for that matter. And I wish I had stumbled upon Peat's work sooner, but no, I had to run into the Paleo crowd, and read Shanahan and go destroy my thyroid first! (that advice is nowhere in her book, by the way... She is now heftily charging to advise people who may have gone into trouble from following the incomplete advice in her "Deep Nutrition" book. Her only excuse: "She never paid attention to that pesky little molecule (rT3)")

    Well, I want Peat known and quoted, OK? Nutrition is more important to me than astrophysics, and I see it is more important to astrophysicists too. Why not treat it as science and treat readers as grown ups and pay less attention to the ugly world of the scientific community, with its petty interests, manipulated by Big Pharma and other industrial lobbies?
     
  18. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    Hahaha, what an idiotic statement. One can cite wherever one got an idea from, and it can be an article too.
     
  19. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    So it's no surprise frustrated suggests doing that.
     
  20. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Carbon dioxide, glycation, and the protective effects of

    In a radio show he mentioned that people plagiarize his ideas, the parts that are more easy to accept in the mainstream. He didn't say it in an approving tone. The person least reliable to figure out what Peat would want is the guy who is terrified that people might call him a name. frustrated has a completely different mindset from Peat. His brain was molded too well by authoritarians and he loves submitting to them and doing what they want.
     
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