Carbon Dioxide And Anxiety

TylerDurden

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
17
From what I understand the purpose of bag breathing is to make sure your body does not lose too much carbon dioxide. However if you type in the words anxiety and carbon dioxide into Google almost every result suggests that breathing in too much carbon dioxide creates anxiety. The whole situation is very confusing as some of the people that say holding too much carbon dioxide is detrimental to anxiety also preach the benefits of Buteyko breathing on various other forums. From what I understand Buteyko breathing revolves around holding on to more carbon dioxide. Can someone please clear this up for me as researching this subject for me at least just leads to more confusion.
 

jitsmonkey

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
729
As is painfully common... you're seeing the confusion of contexts.

MOST people will increase their anxiety as they perceive LESS air.
If I cover your mouth and nose with my hand you will panic at the prospect of not being able to breathe
the longer I keep your mouth and nose covered, the longer the threat is present the more you will panic.

CO2 is in fact building up but in fact the anxiety isn't necessarily from the CO2 , it has more to do with the threat.
Every experienced jiu jitsu athlete can attest to the difference between the FIRST time you get choked in
training compared to the 100th time. If you relax you escape, you panic you're done.

It is a skill that is developed to separate the anxiety of not being able to breathe from
your behavior. This is an EXTREME example but on a day to day basis as people perceive the
lack of air availability there is an increase in anxiety until you realize the anxiety is separate
from the lack of "air"/co2 build up.

Improved metabolic function happens when more CO2 can be retained.
When purposely retaining CO2 via breath holds/training mask/bag breathing/whatever
It is imperative the user NOT invoke a stress response. Its not increased CO2 by brute force.
All of Ray's discussions on bag breathing mention this.
Its increased CO2 based upon tolerance.
For some that means they can breathe in a bag twice and they must pause to keep it easy.
For others they can do it much longer. I've seen athletes try to train with a training mask on
because they think its cool, only to end up in full on panic within a couple of minutes in spite of their exercise tolerance being fairly high.
 
OP
T

TylerDurden

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
17
Thanks, that is a very clear response. It's a shame most websites including most Buteyko ones I have been on do not word it as clearly. I usually feel like I am short of breath most of the time, my breathing is generally very light and also very shallow and I only breathe through my nose. My exhales are tiny and almost non existent, unfortunately having to consciously remind yourself to exhale all day is not practical. I think the issue with me is that my lungs may be weak or my diaphragm may be weak or a combination of the two. Would you say that in my case diaphragm strengthening with something like the powerbreathe breathing device would be the best way to go?
 

jitsmonkey

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
729
Thanks, that is a very clear response. It's a shame most websites including most Buteyko ones I have been on do not word it as clearly. I usually feel like I am short of breath most of the time, my breathing is generally very light and also very shallow and I only breathe through my nose. My exhales are tiny and almost non existent, unfortunately having to consciously remind yourself to exhale all day is not practical. I think the issue with me is that my lungs may be weak or my diaphragm may be weak or a combination of the two. Would you say that in my case diaphragm strengthening with something like the powerbreathe breathing device would be the best way to go?


sometimes the issue is simply awareness.
taking a little time each day just to focus on the exhalation and contracting your diaphragm may be enough without any tools at all.
5 min of just following your breath in and out like a meditation
5 min of box breathing with focus on the diaphragm contraction on the exhale
may do the trick.
 

jitsmonkey

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
729
best advice for a somewhat amorphous problem that you're either
not sure you have or don't know what it is would be instead of trying to "solve" said
problem with the "right" tool/trick.... just investigate your breathing
set a little time aside each day to breathe deep, shallow, one day focus on inhale
other day focus on exahle, another day focus on the space between the breaths.
You'll get 1000x more benefit becoming familiar and intimate with your breathing apparatus
than looking for the "right" trick to "fix" things.
 

whit

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
484
From what I understand the purpose of bag breathing is to make sure your body does not lose too much carbon dioxide. However if you type in the words anxiety and carbon dioxide into Google almost every result suggests that breathing in too much carbon dioxide creates anxiety. The whole situation is very confusing as some of the people that say holding too much carbon dioxide is detrimental to anxiety also preach the benefits of Buteyko breathing on various other forums. From what I understand Buteyko breathing revolves around holding on to more carbon dioxide. Can someone please clear this up for me as researching this subject for me at least just leads to more confusion.

I'm by no means an expert on this but my understanding is that every personal experience is different depending on multiple factors. Environment is primarily key and how
we adapt to the elevation we are presently at and the one we were born in. Diet is yet another factor.
As C02 raises and peaks there is some anxiety and that is a sign that one should breath normally again.
As the C02 is incorporated a higher level is sustained and can be tolerated.
The initial anxiety is a temporary symptom.
The stabolizing effect that C02 brings lasts much longer and can be quite relaxing.
That being said everyone has their own experiences...
There are some good interviews with Ray on this topic.
 

SOMO

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
1,094
CAN CONFIRM: BREATHING DEEPLY, and that includes "controlled deep breathing", through your mouth caused PANIC ATTACKS in me several times.
I can reproduce this effect, but choose not to.
 

halam

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
10
Every Buteyko breathing starts with measuring control pause and heart rate.
At the end of breathing the heart rate is measured again.
In case the heart rate is higher at the end of breathing than at the beginning, you know that your body was stressed.
 

MeatOrchid

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
72
I recommend reading this book on the psychedellic psyciatric treatment of Meduna and what seems to be the annihilation of serotonin.

He prefered a 30% CO2 70% Oxygen

Meduna, Ladislas Joseph - Carbon dioxide therapy_ A neurophysiological treatment of nervous disorders-CHARLES C THOMAS PUBLISHER (1950)
 

Attachments

  • Meduna, Ladislas Joseph - Carbon dioxide therapy_ A neurophysiological treatment of nervous di...pdf
    11.7 MB · Views: 45

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom