Carb And Fat Separation Didn’t Work - I’m Counting Calories Now

Discussion in 'Diet' started by ecstatichamster, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    my experiment where I eat separate meals (protein + fat OR protein + carbs) is over. Didn’t help me. I gained body fat.

    So now I’m counting calories. Striving for a 200 kCal a day deficit, more or less.

    It’s a great relief because it’s easy to keep a log and just track calories. I am also tracking calcium to make sure I get more calcium than magnesium.

    Easy peasy.
     
  2. rei

    rei Member

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    You go for the one thing everyone, even mainstream, knows will almost certainly fail? Why not do a peat-approved fasting regimen? IF has plenty scientific literature proving it decreases fat stores, especially the bad fat, compared to 3 meals a day, see the links in the jodelle thread.

    If you are going to succeed with calorie restriction you need to have a comprehensive plan of how to convince the body to keep the metabolic rate up even when it senses prolonged problems of finding enough food.
     
  3. LiveWire

    LiveWire Member

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    Hamster, you motivated me to try it too, at around the same time you started.

    I HAVE lost weight. For the first time in 3 years I am under 100 kilos.

    Either way, you can’t judge something like this by giving it a few weeks. That seems extremely impatient to me.
     
  4. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I recently increased my metabolism. Back to drinking coffee and adding stearyl alcohol to it. Heart rate increased, but so did my blood pressure. But I wasn't backing down, as I wasn't feeling bad, and as you had said, it could be a good thing as the increased pressure helps with pushing nutrients thru capillaries that wouldn't get nutrition had bp been lower.

    Noticed that my waist is smaller and I fit into my pants more easily now.

    My temps increased slightly as well.

    I've long ditched counting calories. I find that I eat till full and only during meal times. No snacking as I don't ever feel hungry in between meals. I have excellent blood sugar control. In between meals my blood sugar is 75-85. The higher basal metabolic rate keeps the blood sugar constantly utilized that little of it ever gets converted to fat.

    I also think that when the blood sugar from eating is exhausted, it is a gradual exhaustion which allows the pancreas to release glucagon gently, so that glycogen stores is slowly converted to glucose to the blood to continue basal metabolism. At the same time,glucagon triggers lipolysis, which lets off fatty acids from adipose tissue, and the fatty acids are used for beta oxidation. This helps with slowing down the burning of sugar for energy as well.

    So you have a case of blood sugar in good range that doesn't cause insulin to convert glucose to fats, and you have the body using up fat stores for energy as well.
     
  5. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    It'll work, as long as you dont deprive yourself of calories on days you feel starving, or force yourself to fulfill your calorie budget on days you dont. You'll probably find that some foods satiate you, and provide energy for you, in ways other foods simply dont
     
  6. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    That's true. You listen to your body. When I feel a little empty, I'll get a teaspoon of honey or two, and I'm good. This doesn't happen often. It happens when I'm trying some supplement and it does that. Like today I had 2 drops Oxidal. I felt a little hungry.
     
  7. Hans

    Hans Member

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    Calorie restriction surely works for fat loss if you do it right.

    Few tips:
    1) Eat enough protein and carbs
    2) Lifting weights will help
    3) Do refeeds and maintenance periods
    4) Maybe use some preg and DHEA to help prevent metabolic slow down during the cut.
    5) Avoid any additional stress as much as possible.
    6) Don't gorge on food after you reach your goal weight - no brainer really.
    7) Gelatin
    8) Easy digestible foods to avoid inflammation and endotoxins.
     
  8. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Very odd thing to say. If you are going to lose any weight that isn't water and inflammation, you have to run a caloric deficit, whether consciously or unconsciously.

    If anything, a caloric deficit is the only thing proven to decrease weight, at least in well controlled metabolic ward studies.

    And then, to go straight to IF and a "Peat Approved Fasting Regimen." Well...... okay. What Peat said in the interview was that a period of up to 24 hours without food can be okay so long as there are sufficient glycogen stores. He then goes on to say that using 600 calories of carbs would probably eliminate the stress response. But 600 calories in a day sounds more like low calorie than IF to me. If you did that once a week, that's just a different way to go about a caloric deficit than trying to establish a smaller one every day.

    I think Hans brings up some great points. While a low enough caloric deficit will cause fat (and muscle) loss, we of course also have to be concerned with stress, hunger, body comp and long term metabolic rate. The best programs will usually address this with things like size of caloric deficit and periodic refeeds or times of caloric maintenance. If you add in things like preg/thyroid/aspirin, that can also be helpful. Probably the most helpful is to address levels of stress and macros before simply jumping into a deficit.

    Right now, I am tracking and aiming for a slight caloric deficit as well, but more important (for me at the moment) is shifting away from the stress metabolism and back to more of a thyroid/pregnenolone based metabolism.
     
  9. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I feel that calorie restriction works only for people with stable blood sugar. But then, people with stable blood sugar are usually not overweight, and have no need to restrict calories.

    When blood sugar is not stable, it's hard to do when you eat only 3 meals in a day, and so you have to graze, or spread meals throughout the day. This is the case for people whose blood sugar will fluctuate downwards below 70. Grazing will keep you constantly supplied with an external source of sugar, since your body is unable to provide you with sugar from internal stores -glycogen. Caloric restriction isn't as important as much as you have with you a supply of carbohydrates to replenish you with. People with insulin resistance will have this problem, and they will have hypoglycemic episodes often, when their blood sugar goes down below a threshold. The problem is that this solution doesn't really keep you from gaining weight. The reason why blood sugar goes down is because your body isn't absorbing sugar well, and this causes blood sugar to go up, and this simply causes insulin to be released to the blood in large quantities, and insulin will cause blood sugar to drop as the liver converts blood sugar to fat. With fat being generated, fat stores will increase and this leads to overweight. Calorie restriction may help in a limited way only, as you have to make sure you're able to spread the limited calories over an optimal number of meals throughout the day. You'll end becoming a slave to this process, and eventually become tired of it.

    Caloric restriction can be a short-term approach to dealing with the problem, but it doesn't address the problem of poor blood sugar regulation. I think this is the bigger issue that needs to be addressed so that a long-term solution can be arrived at.

    A glucose tolerance test is needed to start addressing problems with overweight.
     
  10. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I tried separation and I gained 6 or 8 pounds. It isn’t working for me. It’s obvious.

    Now, counting calories, I can make sure that I run a mild calorie deficit. It’s easy for me to follow and comforting.

    I think calorie restriction that is mild should be fine. Dr. Peat definitely believes in calories as causing weight gain.

    I’m not going nuts. 2000 or 2200 a day. I probably use 2500 a day. I am looking for an occasional whoosh, but gradually losing a pound or two a month.
     
  11. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I take my temperatures and can tell if my blood sugar gets low. It isn’t getting low all that quickly, which is a good sign.

    I think there are “types” here

    1. Person who can’t get enough calories
    2. Person who can’t lose fat no matter what , even with low calories

    I am a person who has high T, high-ish estrogen, but am very responsive to dietary changes. So I don’t have to balloon out to 215 or 220 to know that I have to change what I’m doing.

    This should have a pretty good effect fairly quickly.
     
  12. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    So how does “addressing” blood sugar look like? What would I do differently?

    I eat protein with carbs. I am low-ish fat. I think that is what ultimately helps over the long run to stabilize blood sugar. And I am taking T3 and NDT, and maintaining good body temperatures throughout the day.

    I found, by the way, that my waking temperatures had plunged with the separation diet.

    Now they are back to 97.2 or so. Still low, but not 96.8
     
  13. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    I'm starting to think fat gain is a sign of a lack of pleasure in your life. Not in terms of sex or alcohol, but in terms of being stimulated by your job, friends, hobbies. A shift to a "hot" left-brain dominance as opposed to the "cool" right-brain dominance of something who is living a very satisfying life with minimal chronic stress.
     
  14. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Me too
     
  15. Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Good luck!
     
  16. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Sad to see you give up and count calories man.

    Meanwhile, I believe I've recently discovered how to lose weight on high calories AND improve metabolism.

    High carbs, very low fat, very low protein -> Directly supplement aminos. So basically almost vegan, but supplement aminos (Eating protein has many proven problems, many of which are discussed by people on these forums and Ray too, to a degree)
     
  17. Ron J

    Ron J Member

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    If I understood Kelj correctly, the body needs to first lay an emergency energy source after starvation(fat gain) to then be able to fix any damage. Once the body realizes that there is an abundance of daily calories, it'll then get rid of excess body fat.
    But I think body fat matters; I personally wouldn't try it if my starting point is in the obese territory. I think the estrogen would be too much and might do more damage than to first cut down.
     
  18. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    You have a very weird way of interpreting Peat's ideas. I have never heard him suggest a low protein, almost vegan diet with amino acid supplements at high calorie intakes to improve metabolism. I have heard him suggest slight caloric deficits if someone is overweight.
     
  19. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Multiple times it has been posted on these forums that protein deficiency diets have the same benefits of caloric restriction.

    Ray has a whole article speaking against the deadly 4 AA's (Tryptophan, Cystine, Methionine, Histidine).

    Ray himself said (in the same article) that you can be in a functional protein deficit, even in a high-ish protein diet.

    It doesn't take a lot of reading in between the lines to connect the dots, between all that and my own experiences, that restricting protein absolutely can be therapeutic, but while directly injecting aminos both to avoid deficiency and because digestion can be poor enough to where you wouldn't be able to get the aminos otherwise anyway, even while eating protein. So why eat protein and subject yourself to the bad AA's, if doing so won't even give you the good AA's? I see no reason to.

    Caloric deficits are boring and not interesting to me, they do not restore metabolism. I'm not beating that dead horse, but I'm more interested in restoring metabolism than losing weight. But losing weight automatically comes with an improved metabolism, so I don't even need to focus on it anyway. However, the reverse is not true. You can lose weight and destroy your metabolism (I have 5 years of experience doing that =P)
     
  20. SOMO

    SOMO Member

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    Restricting calories does cause weight loss, but at the cost of decreasing Thyroid function.

    Which will make future weight loss more difficult and is probably responsible for the "Rebounding" effect where many people gain EXTRA weight that they did not have before dieting.
     
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