Can't Stay Asleep

JohnS

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Jan 10, 2013
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This happens to me every night. I usually go to bed around 10:00 or 10:30 and can get to sleep pretty quickly. Then somewhere around 2:30 to 3:30 I wake up and can't get back to sleep. It usually takes over an hour or more. When I do get back it's not deep sleep. When I get up and during the day I don't really get tired or sleepy so I guess that's good.

Things I've tried:

Magnesium glycinate 400 mg right before bed. (i think this helps me get to sleep)

Milk with sugar and salt.

Milk with gelatin.

Orange juice with salt. (Last night I got up and had some OJ at 3am.)

Benadryl (this usually works some, but I still wake up, but then can get back to sleep quicker. I do not want to take sleep aids every night)

Meditation and various breathing techniques

I'm also a mouth breather due to not so clear nasal airways.

Anyone have any tricks or tips I can add to this list to try? :sleeping
 

gretchen

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Nov 30, 2012
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Go to sleep earlier and use a sleep mask. Have the snack or sleep-remedy 30 minutes before. You might also try something like an Earthing sheet to sleep with or a mat to use during the day:
http://www.earthing.com/
 

Dan W

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Jan 22, 2013
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I keep a small cup with some sugar/salt/niacinamide/pregnenolone by the bed that helps knock me back out if I wake up. If I'm really having trouble, I take some sublingual GABA and D3 (which supposedly helps the GABA pass through the blood-brain barrier).

Obviously those are band-aids rather than fixes; real improvements to my sleep have come from fixing metabolism and stress issues.
 

Edward

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Apr 20, 2013
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JohnS said:
Anyone have any tricks or tips I can add to this list to try?

This is often overlooked but vanilla extract is a sedative. I mix it with hot cocoa.

1 cup milk
1/4 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons cocoa
2 tablespoons sugar
1/2-1 teaspoon vanilla extract

Look for a good quality vanilla extract that is just that. Some extracts can have propylene glycol. There are few instances I've come across that. McCormick is usually the brand I use. You have to watch the box though because different sized bottles tend to have different ingredients for whatever reason.

Nothing magical about the cocoa recipe alone which is off the back of the Hersey's cocoa box but the vanilla extract works well in my case. I think sometimes that more cocoa has a sedative effect as well. Speaking of cocoa there was a study I came across several years ago that cocoa can reduce endotoxin but I can't for the life of me find it again. But I have noticed that large amounts of cocoa can have a laxative effect.

I also make eggshell calcium capsules with equal parts salt and calcium. Which I take infrequently before sleep. Those put my wife into a coma.

I do power lift and because I use the Bulgarian/Chinese systems this is very taxing on the nervous system so the B vitamins become important and the choice of carbohydrate. Oysters for the most part are the most calming dietary component of my diet. There is a lot of B12 in oysters. I do eat a lot of starch because I've found it to have a relaxing effect.

Supplement wise B6, usually I use P-5-P but sometimes Pyridoxine, usually about 10mg, but not frequently. Niacinamide can be helpful though I haven't taken niacinamide for over a year now and when I did it was only about 100mg. You have to watch with niacinamide that you have eaten enough. Aspirin can also be helpful but again you have to watch that you eat enough.

Typically I eat the majority of calories towards the evening usually eating 4000-6000 kcals over a 3-4 hour period. During the day I will graze on this and that but usually it is just coffee with milk and blocks of parmesan reggiano. During very intense training I usually will drink 3-4 courts of skim milk in addition to my evening spread. So I can put away some calories. Yet, I'm in the 62kg weight class. My wife eats about 3000-4000 kcals per day and she is shorter than me and is sedentary. We have both found that eating towards the evening gives restful sleep.

Eggs are often overlooked. I eat 1-2 egg yolks right before bed. When I used to spread my meals out 1-2 yolks worked very well in the evenings.

The only other supplement I use is K2. I've been using it for several years but I've found that overall I have had better sleep since I started using it. Some people have noticed that D3 improves sleep and if K2 is involved D metabolism I could see a possible mechanism for why it might have that effect. I use 1 or 2 drops per day.

Everyday I take my daughter on a walk in the woods, I think walking is nice.

Every night is ended with a banana split with salty chocolate syrup and a small cup of coffee.

Getting enough thiamine can also be important.

There was a period were one of my nostrils would close at night. I stopped using pepper and it has since never happened again.

I also take warm baths before bed. And that is usually all I do. Only during periods of stress do I use some of the above tips. I really don't use anything but K2 anymore.
 

Edward

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I also take a spoon of honey in the morning and sometimes in the evening.
 

HDD

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"Increased body temperature improves sleep, especially the deep slow wave sleep. A hot bath, or even warming the feet, has the same effect as thyroid in improving sleep. Salty and sugary foods taken at bedtime, or during the night, help to improve the quality and duration of sleep. Both salt and sugar lower the adrenalin level, and both tend to raise the body temperature."
 

4peatssake

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Haagendazendiane said:
"Increased body temperature improves sleep, especially the deep slow wave sleep. A hot bath, or even warming the feet, has the same effect as thyroid in improving sleep. Salty and sugary foods taken at bedtime, or during the night, help to improve the quality and duration of sleep. Both salt and sugar lower the adrenalin level, and both tend to raise the body temperature."

:yeahthat Thanks for this great reminder HDD. A hot bath - in epsom salts and baking soda - pure heaven.

I now take milk with sugar before bed every night too since Ray recommended it to me. Huge difference for me.
 

HDD

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I just did feet in bucket because I don't always want to get in bath. :)
 

nwo2012

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Aug 28, 2012
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4peatssake said:
Haagendazendiane said:
"Increased body temperature improves sleep, especially the deep slow wave sleep. A hot bath, or even warming the feet, has the same effect as thyroid in improving sleep. Salty and sugary foods taken at bedtime, or during the night, help to improve the quality and duration of sleep. Both salt and sugar lower the adrenalin level, and both tend to raise the body temperature."

:yeahthat Thanks for this great reminder HDD. A hot bath - in epsom salts and baking soda - pure heaven.

I now take milk with sugar before bed every night too since Ray recommended it to me. Huge difference for me.

On a similar note, I had one of the best sleeps in a while using 750w of heat-lamps for 30 mins before sleep.

I also find a tiny amount of T4 (around 15mcg) works well before bed. The gelatin, milk, cacao, sugar and salt also work well. When all else fails, Cyproheptadine always works and only 2mg 1 hour before bed suffices.
 

jyb

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@nwo2012: You used 750w heat lamps instead of incandescents due to convenience (easier to find) or other reason? I switched to incandescent and also noticed substantial change in sleep, but I also increased the wattage so that could have played a role (went from 250w heat lamp to 500w incandescent).
 

tomisonbottom

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Apr 17, 2013
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Edward said:
JohnS said:
Anyone have any tricks or tips I can add to this list to try?
Typically I eat the majority of calories towards the evening usually eating 4000-6000 kcals over a 3-4 hour period. During the day I will graze on this and that but usually it is just coffee with milk and blocks of parmesan reggiano. During very intense training I usually will drink 3-4 courts of skim milk in addition to my evening spread. So I can put away some calories. Yet, I'm in the 62kg weight class. My wife eats about 3000-4000 kcals per day and she is shorter than me and is sedentary. We have both found that eating towards the evening gives restful sleep

Wow, that's amazing to me that your wife eats that much without being active!
Did she used to be very muscular or athletic?
How long has she been eating that much? No fat gain?
 

GreekDemiGod

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Salty and sugary foods taken at bedtime, or during the nigh
We're not supposed to wake up and eat at night, we're supposed to be fasting and sleeping uninterrupted during the night.
Don't know why people find this acceptable
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
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This happens to me every night. I usually go to bed around 10:00 or 10:30 and can get to sleep pretty quickly. Then somewhere around 2:30 to 3:30 I wake up and can't get back to sleep. It usually takes over an hour or more. When I do get back it's not deep sleep. When I get up and during the day I don't really get tired or sleepy so I guess that's good.

Things I've tried:

Magnesium glycinate 400 mg right before bed. (i think this helps me get to sleep)

Milk with sugar and salt.

Milk with gelatin.

Orange juice with salt. (Last night I got up and had some OJ at 3am.)

Benadryl (this usually works some, but I still wake up, but then can get back to sleep quicker. I do not want to take sleep aids every night)

Meditation and various breathing techniques

I'm also a mouth breather due to not so clear nasal airways.

Anyone have any tricks or tips I can add to this list to try? :sleeping
I bag breathe before dozing off to sleep and it helps me a lot to fall asleep. If I wake in the night I bag breathe and it works many times to get me back to sleep too. If I mix sugar and salt in with a half cup of milk and drink it down it gets me back to sleep REALLY good. Ray Peat says that darkness raises cortisol so I now sleep with a bathroom light on and it is a much more relaxing night of sleep. I also run an air filter at night which has a nice light hum to it, like a sound machine for sleep.
 

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