Cannot Sleep On Workout Days

andrei

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
195
Hey guys! I have a problem recently.

I am doing 1 set per muscle till failure. I do only 1 set per workout per day because I eat too much (my calories are at 4000 now).

I sleep very poorly at night. I.e. i wake up tired. I workout in the afternoon.
I monitored this and it is the cause from workout.

What could it be?
I am forced to not train now, in spite of taking a break of 6 weeks before this.

Andrei
 

appotis

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
35
I had the same issue. It is really bad. You need to recover but sleep is poor. This really bothered me, because you are really everywhere that training promotes good sleep.

In my case, the workouts were too intense.
I was still on stress hormones, which prevent you from a deep sleep.

https://trainright.com/cant-sleep-hard-workout-race/

If I have a 15min HIIT session midday, my sleep will be fine. But if I do a 75min full body heavy lifting (squats, etc.), then I am crushed.
I get flu symptoms afterward and also even the next day sucks, because of bad sleep plus still minor flu symptoms.

Yesterday I had a really great and intense workout. But also the worst sleep of this month that night (tracking my sleep with Fitbit).
I finished workout 5 pm and I still felt hot in bed at 11 pm.

Solutions:
- Decrease intensity, until the body gets better used the workout and stress hormones aren't through the roof.
- Put the workout on morning/midday, then you have longer time span to decrease cortisol, noradr. etc.
- Get cool before bed, for example, cool shower.
 

whodathunkit

Member
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
777
The symptoms you guys describe are a pre-cursor to Post Exertional Malaise (PEM), which is one of the symptoms used to diagnose Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). In general this sleeplessness after exertion indicates some deeper metabolic issues. Energy synthesis is failing somewhere along the line. I know cuz I had this symptom for over a decade. It got to the point where a light workout with weights would affect my sleep for a couple weeks and I would have some level of crappy fatigue for a couple months afterwards.

If you also experience prolonged recovery time (like, fatigue after a hard workout that lasts more than a day, especially if it lasts more than a few days and especially if you get prolonged flu-like symptoms from it) you might actually have what is categorized as PEM. This doesn't mean you have CFS, but it does indicate that if you don't fix what's causing your problem you could have bigger problems down the road. Not trying to scare you, only help you, as this type of symptom progression happened to me and I didn't understand what was going on in the early stages. If someone had told me I might have been able to help myself before I progressed deeply into CFS.

The sleeplessness after a hard workout is also indicative of adrenal / steroid hormone dysregulation. Because there are deeper metabolic issues present the stress of the workout forces the adrenals into overdrive. Cortisol and adrenaline output become deranged, at least for a short time after the work out. The derangement becomes more severe and persistent over time, if the underlying metabolic issues aren't addressed.

My experience has been that poor liver function and nutritional deficiencies are at the root of CFS. Good liver function is needed to clear metabolic waste. Metabolic waste can be generated by physical activity or excessive lifestyle choices (over-eating, alcohol/drug consumption, etc.) Clearing metabolic waste uses up nutrients. Extra metabolic waste = need for extra nutrients. No extra nutrients = deficiency. Prolonged deficiency = poor health.

"Prolonged" being a subjective yet key operator here. Prolonged for one person may be 10 years, while prolonged for another may be 6 months. Depends on the person's foundational level of health.

Correcting liver function and nutritional deficiencies has brought me from barely being able to function to having a near normal level of energy. It's taken me years to heal and I'm still healing, but I put myself in the tank with decades of poor lifestyle choices so I expect to be healing for another few years at least. Healing is a marathon, not a sprint.

An observation for @andrei : 4000 calories is A LOT of food. If you do not work construction or do physical fitness for a living, this excessive calorie is likely putting a burden on all your internal organs, especially your liver. There is NO REASON for someone not doing manual labor or physical fitness for a living to eat that much food.

If you're eating 4000 calories per day while also following the "Peat guidelines" of using daily caffeine and sugar, plus eating a lot of fat (as is sometimes recommended on this board) that's a perfect storm recipe for liver issues.

My recommendations:

Bring your calorie intake down to at least 3000. Probably more like 2500 is better. A 24 hour fast once per week for a month or two might do you some good. But no more than 24 hours at a time and very light physical activity on those days. Fresh gelatin broth is good on fast days.

If you're doing caffeine and white sugar, ditch them. Nobody needs caffeine or sugar. Both exacerbate any existing metabolic issues and both also contribute to nutrient deficiencies. Up your fruit intake instead to get your sugar. Fruit also contains vital nutrients and minerals. Especially eat fruit right before bed on an empty stomach. This will help maintain stable blood sugar overnight so that it does not drop low enough to cause your adrenals to output cortisol to provoke your liver into a sugar dump. The wee hours stress of plummeting blood sugar + overworked liver/rising cortisol in cases of overstressed adrenals is a big cause of sleep disruption.

Do only exercises that utilize your body weight like squats, pull ups, push ups, walking, etc. Stair walk if you have stairs available. Doing these kinds of movements facilitate the movement and removal of metabolic waste from your muscles rather than promoting a buildup of metabolic waste like a heavy workout with weights can do. But don't even do that for a while if it causes you problems. The key to recovering from depressed energy synthesis is to not stress the body more while trying to get it into a state where it can handle a reasonable amount of stress. If that makes sense. So not exercising for a while while eating in a way that facilitates the removal of metabolic waste and the renewal of cells may be called for.

FWIW, I'm on board with most of what Peat has to say. But NOT what he believes about caffeine and table sugar. Or at least, not the way popular wisdom has interpreted Peat on those subjects.

Good luck!
 

biggirlkisss

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
971
if you have insomia digustion issues sleep issues from working out it means to much cut back and eat before and after. Look at more ways to reduce stress go to bed at 10pm more infared eat more often etc.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
161
The symptoms you guys describe are a pre-cursor to Post Exertional Malaise (PEM), which is one of the symptoms used to diagnose Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). In general this sleeplessness after exertion indicates some deeper metabolic issues. Energy synthesis is failing somewhere along the line. I know cuz I had this symptom for over a decade. It got to the point where a light workout with weights would affect my sleep for a couple weeks and I would have some level of crappy fatigue for a couple months afterwards.

If you also experience prolonged recovery time (like, fatigue after a hard workout that lasts more than a day, especially if it lasts more than a few days and especially if you get prolonged flu-like symptoms from it) you might actually have what is categorized as PEM. This doesn't mean you have CFS, but it does indicate that if you don't fix what's causing your problem you could have bigger problems down the road. Not trying to scare you, only help you, as this type of symptom progression happened to me and I didn't understand what was going on in the early stages. If someone had told me I might have been able to help myself before I progressed deeply into CFS.

The sleeplessness after a hard workout is also indicative of adrenal / steroid hormone dysregulation. Because there are deeper metabolic issues present the stress of the workout forces the adrenals into overdrive. Cortisol and adrenaline output become deranged, at least for a short time after the work out. The derangement becomes more severe and persistent over time, if the underlying metabolic issues aren't addressed.

My experience has been that poor liver function and nutritional deficiencies are at the root of CFS. Good liver function is needed to clear metabolic waste. Metabolic waste can be generated by physical activity or excessive lifestyle choices (over-eating, alcohol/drug consumption, etc.) Clearing metabolic waste uses up nutrients. Extra metabolic waste = need for extra nutrients. No extra nutrients = deficiency. Prolonged deficiency = poor health.

"Prolonged" being a subjective yet key operator here. Prolonged for one person may be 10 years, while prolonged for another may be 6 months. Depends on the person's foundational level of health.

Correcting liver function and nutritional deficiencies has brought me from barely being able to function to having a near normal level of energy. It's taken me years to heal and I'm still healing, but I put myself in the tank with decades of poor lifestyle choices so I expect to be healing for another few years at least. Healing is a marathon, not a sprint.

An observation for @andrei : 4000 calories is A LOT of food. If you do not work construction or do physical fitness for a living, this excessive calorie is likely putting a burden on all your internal organs, especially your liver. There is NO REASON for someone not doing manual labor or physical fitness for a living to eat that much food.

If you're eating 4000 calories per day while also following the "Peat guidelines" of using daily caffeine and sugar, plus eating a lot of fat (as is sometimes recommended on this board) that's a perfect storm recipe for liver issues.

My recommendations:

Bring your calorie intake down to at least 3000. Probably more like 2500 is better. A 24 hour fast once per week for a month or two might do you some good. But no more than 24 hours at a time and very light physical activity on those days. Fresh gelatin broth is good on fast days.

If you're doing caffeine and white sugar, ditch them. Nobody needs caffeine or sugar. Both exacerbate any existing metabolic issues and both also contribute to nutrient deficiencies. Up your fruit intake instead to get your sugar. Fruit also contains vital nutrients and minerals. Especially eat fruit right before bed on an empty stomach. This will help maintain stable blood sugar overnight so that it does not drop low enough to cause your adrenals to output cortisol to provoke your liver into a sugar dump. The wee hours stress of plummeting blood sugar + overworked liver/rising cortisol in cases of overstressed adrenals is a big cause of sleep disruption.

Do only exercises that utilize your body weight like squats, pull ups, push ups, walking, etc. Stair walk if you have stairs available. Doing these kinds of movements facilitate the movement and removal of metabolic waste from your muscles rather than promoting a buildup of metabolic waste like a heavy workout with weights can do. But don't even do that for a while if it causes you problems. The key to recovering from depressed energy synthesis is to not stress the body more while trying to get it into a state where it can handle a reasonable amount of stress. If that makes sense. So not exercising for a while while eating in a way that facilitates the removal of metabolic waste and the renewal of cells may be called for.

FWIW, I'm on board with most of what Peat has to say. But NOT what he believes about caffeine and table sugar. Or at least, not the way popular wisdom has interpreted Peat on those subjects.

Good luck!
Thanks for this awesome response. I have had these post exercise insomnia issues for years and it is getting worse. Even a slow paced walk will interfere with my sleep now. Coming from a low carb low calorie background I have noticed some slight improvement in my symptoms after a fitful night by increasing my calories but still feel tired and irritable. I have had Hashimoto’s thyroiditis for many years and always struggled with my weight hence the near starvation diet and daily exercise. I will definitely do more research on PEM and CFS. Perhaps I will finally understand what has been happening to my body!
 
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