Can you increase the demand for fat in the body?

Dr. B

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Potatoes, fruits, scallops, (collard) greens, (coconut) oil..

The glycine/gelatin is one means of clearing out methionine/methyls. Vitamin B3 also has a similar effect. Scallops are expensive, though. Just enough added to get to 5g leucine (at 70 kg + 16% body fat).
didnt masterjohn mention that b3 depletes methyl groups constantly which is why b3 can cause deficiency in methyl groups which is why masterjohn recommends supplementing betaine 1:1 alongside niacinamide. whereas glycine i think he said, ONLY depletes excess methly groups. so glycine is basically much safer and prevents depleting methyl groups too much.

are those things that contain methionine or choline? how does coconut oil contain those, does it have small amounts of protein? id imagine there would be very little amino acids in coconut oil.
 

baccheion

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didnt masterjohn mention that b3 depletes methyl groups constantly which is why b3 can cause deficiency in methyl groups which is why masterjohn recommends supplementing betaine 1:1 alongside niacinamide. whereas glycine i think he said, ONLY depletes excess methly groups. so glycine is basically much safer and prevents depleting methyl groups too much.

are those things that contain methionine or choline? how does coconut oil contain those, does it have small amounts of protein? id imagine there would be very little amino acids in coconut oil.
They contain choline and methionine, but are in ratio with glycine/gelatin. The combo mentioned was an eating pattern not a list of individual foods. Coconut oil has neither; it is the fat macro..

Glycine, vitamin B3, and somewhat lysine (by shifting to L-carnitine) can clear/deplete methyls/methionine..
 
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Not really sure what the action is here. This sounds reducible to being about body size, the bigger you are the more material you need to consume to sustain yourself. I would imagine if muscle had a significant effect then body builders would not need to resort to drugs or CICO to get lean.

I can pretty much guarantee that my hormones are out of whack after a decade of unnecessarily induced stress trying to resolve my body fat problem. I am not currently interested in trying to micro manage the function of my organs. I have read too much negative press about the medical and pharmaceutical industry to believe this is even possible to do.

What I understand is that a significant amount of body system repair happens during deep sleep. So it would make sense that using supplements to improve your sleep would give your body more opportunity to repair itself. And more repair, would mean more fat is used and you would get leaner. What I am interested in is whether there are ways you could increase the demand for repair as well?

I estimate I am about 30% body fat, although I don't believe I am deficient in strength or lean body mass for my height. I hold my own in terms of strength against similar height men at my BJJ class. I did consume some combination of potassium, sodium and magnesium salt in water when I was fasting, I did not incur issues with headaches this way. When I use the description "miserable", I simply mean that I could only sustain the fast for as long as my motivation was high, and the weight loss failed to stick when I returned to eating.
Being a body builder is pushing your body to an unnatural state, so yes you would need extra for that extra. As soon as you stop that body building routine muscles go back to their natural state. Ray is not saying in his statement that fat builds muscle, but that it burns or "feeds" on fat. Protein builds muscle.
 

Dr. B

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They contain choline and methionine, but are in ratio with glycine/gelatin. The combo mentioned was an eating pattern not a list of individual foods. Coconut oil has neither; it is the fat macro..

Glycine, vitamin B3, and somewhat lysine (by shifting to L-carnitine) can clear/deplete methyls/methionine..

glycine according to masterjohn only depletes excess methyl groups. but obviously gelatin itself doesnt contain the methionine.
 

Hans

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I understand the simplistic model, of infra-red light + sugar + oxygen for electrical energy to power the bodies processes. And that industrial PUFA is a primary culprit in interfering with this energy production at the microscopic level. I am applying this knowledge now and I feel better. I am interested in what it requires to get rid of stored fat, as I am now not doing a CICO approach and attempting to burn fat for electrical energy.
All you need to turn fat into energy is optimal functioning mitochondria. You can make lots of ATP from fat, but that doesn't mean that you'll lose fat. Thyroid, androgens and dopamine will control appetite, metabolic rate and fat detoxification through the liver, making it easier to lose fat.
 

Frostee

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tis opinion seems very out of sync with what I have read on this forum. 8 years ago I personally lost 25kg using calorie restriction and strength training, which I regained when I lost motivation over some personal issues. Last year I lost 11kgs rather rapidly experimenting with a fasting regime, that I put back on as soon as I stopped. Neither of these weight loss periods made me very lean, only smaller.
I think believing in CICO 100% literally is problematic as I have yoyo dieted from it too. But your fasting example is too extreme as well. Of course you will lose muscle doing things too quickly. My point being why can't people mix both calorie counting and pro metabolic food? It seems to be either or. Peat says many times he got fat drinking full fat milk - he obviously took a CICO strategy by drinking 1% instead and it worked. I see that as a combination of both methods
 
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mondocool239

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All you need to turn fat into energy is optimal functioning mitochondria. You can make lots of ATP from fat, but that doesn't mean that you'll lose fat. Thyroid, androgens and dopamine will control appetite, metabolic rate and fat detoxification through the liver, making it easier to lose fat.
I don't think that you want to turn fat into energy? My understanding is that release of fat into your system for energy happens when in a fasted state, and is triggered by adrenaline secretion. Utilization of fat for energy seems to be a survival mechanism, not its primary utility. I agree with you that a healthy functioning body will correctly utilize the fat it receives from the diet. Being healthy would make it easier to lose fat. But how do you lose fat? My initial post suggests that the way to lose fat is to stop eating it until you have used up the fat you have stored. And then my question is are there things you could do to encourage the utilization?
I think believing in CICO 100% literally is problematic as I have yoyo dieted from it too. But your fasting example is too extreme as well. Of course you will lose muscle doing things too quickly. My point being why can't people mix both calorie counting and pro metabolic food? It seems to be either or. Peat says many times he got fat drinking full fat milk - he obviously took a CICO strategy by drinking 1% instead and it worked. I see that as a combination of both methods
I think it is plausible that you could combine calorie counting and pro metabolic food to lose weight and mitigate damage to the metabolism what I don't see is how it would make you lean instead of just smaller?
 

Frostee

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I think it is plausible that you could combine calorie counting and pro metabolic food to lose weight and mitigate damage to the metabolism what I don't see is how it would make you lean instead of just smaller?
I don't know what you mean, many bodybuilders even naturals lose a controlled small amount of fat over time and keep all their muscle and possibly gain. Since you seem to be concerned with body composition I assume you will be lifting weights. Is it possible you underestimated how much fat you have? This is very common
 

Hans

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I don't think that you want to turn fat into energy? My understanding is that release of fat into your system for energy happens when in a fasted state, and is triggered by adrenaline secretion. Utilization of fat for energy seems to be a survival mechanism, not its primary utility. I agree with you that a healthy functioning body will correctly utilize the fat it receives from the diet. Being healthy would make it easier to lose fat. But how do you lose fat? My initial post suggests that the way to lose fat is to stop eating it until you have used up the fat you have stored. And then my question is are there things you could do to encourage the utilization?
We burn endogenously stored fat all the time. Between meals, even right after eating a high carb meal, and during sleep. We're always burning fat to a degree. Testosterone and thyroid promote lipolysis and fat oxidation. Burning fat for fuel is not an issue. It just shouldn't be the predominant fuel if you want to maximize CO2 production.
If you stop consuming fat, lipogenesis becomes significantly upregulated, so you still create and store fat endogenously.
 

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