Can You Find The Study Dr. Peat Is Talking About, Canned Vegetables

[ecstatichamster]

"RP: Oh, no. There were experiments in the 1940's in which rats were fed stuff out of cans — the usual vegetables, beans, corn, all the standard vegetables — and others were fed the same vegetables fresh and raw. And the animals eating the canned vegetables thrived and the others didn't. "

KMUD: Aging and Energy Reversal (2013)

Can't find the study...

 

[Tarmander]

I would be curious too...sounds like a study directly contradicting Weston Price

 

[dreamcatcher]

I guess it has to do with endotoxin formation in case of eating raw and undercooked vegs.

 

[Wilfrid]

@ecstatichamster , you may find a starting answer with this:
https://dacemirror.sci-hub.tw/journ...bed0b0/[email protected]
I suspect the experiments that Ray was referring to are those made in 1939 by Kohman et al. The authors also mentioned other studies in the article.
But I couln't put my hands on the one made by Kohman, though.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thank you @Wilfrid
I wonder if this references that study or a different one. This doesn’t say the canned food rats were more healthy than raw food rats. Just that they could survive okay on canned food.

 

[mujuro]

Yeh, anythinf canned is like overcooked, soggy food mass. I have to assume the soaking gelatinizes the starches and breaks down the fiber content, such that the endotoxin load is much lower.

 

[tara]

I guess it has to do with endotoxin formation in case of eating raw and undercooked vegs.

Could be.
And/or that they got more nutrition out of the cooked (canned) veges themselves than the canned ones, which may also have had some added salt and sugar?

 

[ecstatichamster]

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50295a015?journalCode=iechad

Found it

Strangely canned foods sustained rats better than raw or home cooked. Just as Dr. Peat said.

 

[Herbie]

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50295a015?journalCode=iechad

Found it

Strangely canned foods sustained rats better than raw or home cooked. Just as Dr. Peat said.

Im curious

 

[Fractality]

I will be stoked if @Travis or any of the raw foodists on this forum contribute to this thread.

 

[Nokoni]

@ecstatichamster Nice work. Here's the full study.

One question might be if genetic differences between the founding breeders played any role. "Litter mates were divided" into the (originally) two founding breeder groups but there could still be average differences between them. Another question might be if palatability played a role. Didn't see anything showing how much food was actually consumed by the groups. Still, the results are pretty impressive.

 

[Herbie]

I think the canned food rats did better because they had higher available calcium.

 

[ecstatichamster]

my guess is endotoxins. The canned food was very cooked. Rats with home cooking did second best, and raw did the worst. I think that this is a source of Dr. Peat's admonition about cooking vegetables very well.

I read an interview where he said it doesn't apply to meat, although parasites of course are killed with cooking but in terms of digestibility cooking meat had no importance. It was on a KMUD interview in response to a caller asking about the "enzymes in raw meat" ideas and what Peat thought about that.

 

[michael94]

my guess is endotoxins. The canned food was very cooked. Rats with home cooking did second best, and raw did the worst. I think that this is a source of Dr. Peat's admonition about cooking vegetables very well.

I read an interview where he said it doesn't apply to meat, although parasites of course are killed with cooking but in terms of digestibility cooking meat had no importance. It was on a KMUD interview in response to a caller asking about the "enzymes in raw meat" ideas and what Peat thought about that.

very pleased with this

 

[michael94]

@ecstatichamster maybe not related but in spain canned seafood and vegetables can be quite expensive, in case you ger bored

Yes, We Can! An exploration into the Spanish obsession with canned food

 

[Herbie]

I read through the study. Its about the available calcium in canned foods, I think. Its not simple to understand due to the way its written.

What I see in this study is the raw and cooked foods which were only cooked for 10 minutes didn't break down cellulose which when cellulose is not broken down will limit the available calcium which gets excreted rather than absorbed in the bones, calcium to the bones made them grow bigger.

"That vegetable cellular tissue has an absorptive power for calcium is an established fact. Morgan (3) demonstrated that regenerated cellulose in the diet increased fecal calcium markedly and phosphorus slightly. Unpublished data from this laboratory show that raw peas absorb appreciable amounts of calcium from water within a few seconds. It is a recognized fact in the canning industry that calcium from hard water used in canning peas is absorbed by the skins and thus causes toughening to the extent of lowering the quality of the peas. There is evidence also that the calcium from the cotyledons of canned peas migrates during storage to the skins and thus causes toughening to the extent of lowering the quality. It is reasonable to assume that the thorough cooking which vegetables receive in canning might lower the absorptive effect of the cellular tissue for calcium, thus resulting in greater availability and manifesting itself in the bones."

"It is concluded that ordinary foods contain significant amounts of vitamin D-the mixture employed twice the amount necessary for maximum bone ash formation from a diet with the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the Steenbock diet. Since the high calcium content of the diet produced as high percentage of bone ash as milk, the variations noted from raw, home-cooked, and canned foods are believed to be a matter largely of availability of a limited calcium supply."

 

[Tristan Loscha]

how does the common mouse thrive though without healthy canned vegetable though?
i mean in the field,where they cant cook for them selves?

 

[ecstatichamster]

how does the common mouse thrive though without healthy canned vegetable though?
i mean in the field,where they cant cook for them selves?

I don't think they live very long in the wild anyway. LOL, what a funny question, but actually a good one.

 

[Regina]

I don't think they live very long in the wild anyway. LOL, what a funny question, but actually a good one.

tiny can openers should be distributed for them.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Actually they eat grains, fruit and seeds. Maybe the raw veggies made them sick in the study - as someone said, endotoxin.