Can we convert potato/starch to sugar like it happens with fruit?

[Apple]

Why doesn't starch in potato convert to sugar like it happens with banana or apple?
Is there anyway to help that convertion to happen so as to make potato more Peaty? :)

I heard they convert starch to sugar before brewing beer...

How to Convert Starch to Sugar

Starch is a carbohydrate found in potatoes, rice, maize, wheat, corn and other grains. You might want to convert starch to sugar to brew your own beer, as the sugar can be transformed into ethanol by a process of fermentation. Wheat and corn are the most commonly used ingredients for...

sciencing.com

 

[Apple]

A little hint here:
"Japan’s traditional sweetener is rice malt syrup; it is made by adding malt (dried sprouted barley) to cooked rice. The malt’s enzymes convert the starches in rice into maltose and easily digestible (soluble) complex carbohydrates. This mash is then strained and cooked to the desired consistency"

 

[mostlylurking]

Why doesn't starch in potato convert to sugar like it happens with banana or apple?
Is there anyway to help that convertion to happen so as to make potato more Peaty? :)

I heard they convert starch to sugar before brewing beer...

How to Convert Starch to Sugar

Starch is a carbohydrate found in potatoes, rice, maize, wheat, corn and other grains. You might want to convert starch to sugar to brew your own beer, as the sugar can be transformed into ethanol by a process of fermentation. Wheat and corn are the most commonly used ingredients for...

sciencing.com

The sugar in fruit includes fructose + glucose (same as sucrose). When you digest starch, it breaks down into straight glucose, with no fructose. The fructose is important because it does not need insulin (if I'm remembering this correctly) to be used by the cells. It doesn't "activate" insulin (I'm pretty sure). Straight glucose more strongly activates insulin and puts your blood sugar on a roller coaster ride.

Here are some links to helpful articles:

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Diabetes was named for the excessive urination it causes, and for the sugar in the urine. It was called the sugar disease, and physicians were taught that sugar was the problem. Patients were ordered to avoid sweet foods, and in hospitals they were sometimes locked up to keep them from finding...

raypeat.com

Ray Peat, PhD – Concerns with Starches – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

If you are going to eat starch, eating well cooked white potatoes is the most Peaty because they contain some protein. Just be sure to cook them to death.

 

[Apple]

The sugar in fruit includes fructose + glucose (same as sucrose). When you digest starch, it breaks down into straight glucose, with no fructose. The fructose is important because it does not need insulin (if I'm remembering this correctly) to be used by the cells. It doesn't "activate" insulin (I'm pretty sure). Straight glucose more strongly activates insulin and puts your blood sugar on a roller coaster ride.

Here are some links to helpful articles:

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Diabetes was named for the excessive urination it causes, and for the sugar in the urine. It was called the sugar disease, and physicians were taught that sugar was the problem. Patients were ordered to avoid sweet foods, and in hospitals they were sometimes locked up to keep them from finding...

raypeat.com

Ray Peat, PhD – Concerns with Starches – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

If you are going to eat starch, eating well cooked white potatoes is the most Peaty because they contain some protein. Just be sure to cook them to death.

Starch is not good. It clogs small arteries and intestinal villi, get deposited in kidneys and lymph.
RP doesn't eat starches for known reason (starch persorption /embolism is no good) and recommends eating fruit instead.
So why not to convert starches to sugar or to some other form before eating them.
Green banana contains 80% starch, ripe banana contains only 1% starch. It naturally contains some enzymes that help conversion.
Would be cool if we could convert all that starch in potato to sugar :)

Such methods exist. Before brewing beer they use malt to convert starch (grains) to sugar. I guess it takes several hours. I hoped there are people on here who know something about it.

 

[mostlylurking]

Starch is not good. It clogs small arteries and intestinal villi, get deposited in kidneys and lymph.
RP doesn't eat starches for known reason (starch persorption /embolism is no good) and recommends eating fruit instead.
So why not to convert starches to sugar or to some other form before eating them.
Green banana contains 80% starch, ripe banana contains only 1% starch. It naturally contains some enzymes that help conversion.
Would be cool if we could convert all that starch in potato to sugar :))

Such methods exist. Before brewing beer they use malt to convert starch (grains) to sugar. I guess it takes several hours. I hoped there are people on here who know sothing about it.

Yes to the problem of clogging of the capillaries with starch grains.

The problem with the sugar that comes from breaking down the starch is that it does not contain any fructose, only glucose.

 

[Apple]

Yes to the problem of clogging of the capillaries with starch grains.

The problem with the sugar that comes from breaking down the starch is that it does not contain any fructose, only glucose.

Using malt, for example, we get maltose and other complex carbohydrates. I don't know if there is any fructose but surely starches in fruit convert to sugar (fructose and glucose). Maltose doesn't contain fructose, true, it is a disaccharide formed from two units of glucose.
But there are probaly other enzyms(apart from malt) that we can use... maybe mixing some mashed fruit with mashed potato and leaving for several hours ?
Edited: After all we can just add a bit sugar to compensate for fructose ...
I don't understand all the chemistry here though.
But it is obvious that absence of starch is good on its own.
Presence of starch can be easily tested with a drop of iodine.

 

[mostlylurking]

Using malt, for example, we get maltose and other complex carbohydrates. I don't know if there is any fructose but surely starches in fruit convert to sugar (fructose and glucose). Maltose doesn't contain fructose, true, it is a disaccharide formed from two units of glucose.
But there are probaly other enzyms(apart from malt) that we can use... maybe mixing some mashed fruit with mashed potato and leaving for several hours ?
Edited: After all we can just add a bit sugar to compensate for fructose ...
I don't understand all the chemistry here though.
But it is obvious that absence of starch is good on its own.
Presence of starch can be easily tested with a drop of iodine.

This sounds like an awful lot of trouble. I don't understand why you would want to do it.

 

[Apple]

This sounds like an awful lot of trouble. I don't understand why you would want to do it.

getting extra calories.
White sugar is too refined and also requires good digestion. Fruit is too low in calories
Another idea...mixing raw honey with cooked rice/potato . Raw honey contains amylase and in theory should easily predigest/handle starch without lots of mess.

 

[mostlylurking]

getting extra calories.
White sugar is too refined and also requires good digestion. Fruit is too low in calories
Another idea...mixing raw honey with cooked rice/potato . Raw honey contains amylase and in theory should easily predigest/handle starch without lots of mess.

Could you add some coconut oil and some gelatin to the diet? Relying on lots of high sugar/starch foods can wreak havoc with your thiamine function.

 

[Apple]

This sounds like an awful lot of trouble. I don't understand why you would want to do it.

Also as an alternative to nixtamalization (praised by RP), which is really messy

Could you add some coconut oil and some gelatin to the diet? Relying on lots of high sugar/starch foods can wreak havoc with your thiamine function.

Sometimes I put a spoon of coconut oil to coffee or bake potato in coconut oil.
I don't digest fats very well in general and I have troubles with milk/cheese/eggs if I overdo on them.(tolerate only small amounts)
Gelatine seems to make me lose weight...I need to gain. I think it prevents absorption of other proteins when I add it to meat.
I was adding bone broth to my regular meals for a couple of weeks and lost 5 kilos...crazy

It would be good to have some cheap source of calories....easily digestible and no starches in it. Fruits are kind of good but they are low caloric and have other issues if eaten a lot and getting expensive.
Rice and potato seem like good/cheap/convinient source of calories...all we need is to convert those starches into safe carbs (...I mean simple sugars)

 

[mostlylurking]

Also as an alternative to nixtamalization (praised by RP), which is really messy

Sometimes I put a spoon of coconut oil to coffee or bake potato in coconut oil.
I don't digest fats very well in general and I have troubles with milk/cheese/eggs if I overdo on them.(tolerate only small amounts)
Gelatine seems to make me lose weight...I need to gain. I think it prevents absorption of other proteins when I add it to meat.
I was adding bone broth to my regular meals for a couple of weeks and lost 5 kilos...crazy

It would be good to have some cheap source of calories....easily digestible and no starches in it. Fruits are kind of good but they are low caloric and have other issues if eaten a lot and getting expensive.
Rice and potato seem like good/cheap/convinient source of calories...all we need is to convert those starches into safe carbs (...I mean simple sugars)

Please elaborate on your thinking that this would substitute for nixtamalization. It's my understanding that the important benefit of nixtamalization is the insurance of not getting a niacin (B3) deficiency (pellagra). Adding sugar to a starch isn't going to help with that but it will increase your likelihood of getting a thiamine deficiency (beri-beri).

 

[Apple]

Please elaborate on your thinking that this would substitute for nixtamalization. It's my understanding that the important benefit of nixtamalization is the insurance of not getting a niacin (B3) deficiency (pellagra). Adding sugar to a starch isn't going to help with that but it will increase your likelihood of getting a thiamine deficiency (beri-beri).

My aim is to convert starches into safe(simple) sugars so as to prevent starch persorption and increase calorie intake.

Nixtamalization works well on corn(starchy food), after consuming nixtamalized corn there were no starch particles observed in blood.. and of cource we get niacin (B3) , so no doubt nixtamalization is good. Just it is messy to do (nixtamalization) at home. On a modern diet (with milk and meat) we are usually getting enough niacin (B3) so there is no need for nixtamalization on industrial scale, nixtamalization will never be adopted (too much waste and needs lots of water). For them it is easier to add B3 as an additive to foods.

I don't mean adding sugar to a starch, I mean converting starch to sugar to make carbs (rice/potato) easily digestible . Did you read my post above?
"Japan’s traditional sweetener is rice malt syrup; it is made by adding malt (dried sprouted barley) to cooked rice. The malt’s enzymes convert the starches in rice into maltose and easily digestible (soluble) complex carbohydrates. This mash is then strained and cooked to the desired consistency"

Good point about thiamine deficiency though... thiamine can be included with other foods if needed.

 

[AlaskaJono]

I learned years ago from the local "potato guru" Ed when I lived in Juneau that refrigerated potatoes change some of the starches to sugar. So we did a few experiments, and yes, there is a noticeable change in taste, texture and "gut feel" or digestion of the same type of home grown potatoes. The difference is not that subtle. We also were growing 7 different types of potatoes which helped to clarify the difference between normal and 'pre-chilled'. Cooking methods were usually boiled or baked, and very rarely fried. Happy potatoe eating.

 

[mostlylurking]

My aim is to convert starches into safe(simple) sugars so as to prevent starch persorption and increase calorie intake.

Nixtamalization works well on corn(starchy food), after consuming nixtamalized corn there were no starch particles observed in blood.. and of cource we get niacin (B3) , so no doubt nixtamalization is good. Just it is messy to do (nixtamalization) at home. On a modern diet (with milk and meat) we are usually getting enough niacin (B3) so there is no need for nixtamalization on industrial scale, nixtamalization will never be adopted (too much waste and needs lots of water). For them it is easier to add B3 as an additive to foods.

I don't mean adding sugar to a starch, I mean converting starch to sugar to make carbs (rice/potato) easily digestible . Did you read my post above?
"Japan’s traditional sweetener is rice malt syrup; it is made by adding malt (dried sprouted barley) to cooked rice. The malt’s enzymes convert the starches in rice into maltose and easily digestible (soluble) complex carbohydrates. This mash is then strained and cooked to the desired consistency"

Good point about thiamine deficiency though... thiamine can be included with other foods if needed.

I've been dealing with a thiamine deficiency/blockage for the past year. It has made me hyper alert regarding all things that could cause thiamine deficiency/functional blockage issues. Digestibility doesn't really enter into this particular equation other than pure easily digestible sugar/starch is probably more of a problem because the starchy food has been "refined", thus removing any possible thiamine present. Relying on food sources for adequate thiamine doesn't work. If you are flooding yourself with sugar/starches, you put yourself in jeopardy. Here's a video that may clarify what I'm trying to say:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI

 

[Apple]

I've been dealing with a thiamine deficiency/blockage for the past year. It has made me hyper alert regarding all things that could cause thiamine deficiency/functional blockage issues. Digestibility doesn't really enter into this particular equation other than pure easily digestible sugar/starch is probably more of a problem because the starchy food has been "refined", thus removing any possible thiamine present. Relying on food sources for adequate thiamine doesn't work. If you are flooding yourself with sugar/starches, you put yourself in jeopardy. Here's a video that may clarify what I'm trying to say:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI

I understand your concern about thiamine but you are digressing from my topic.

I will clarify a bit:
Imagine someone eats well cooked oatmeal with egg every morning...
Oatmeal is pretty starchy and after oatmeal we will see undigested starch particles in our blood, so it is no good...right?
What if before eating (well cooked) oatmeal we add some enzymes to it? We will mix oatmeal with raw honey or papaya or banana (they all conatain amylase which transforms starch to simple sugars) and leave it in bowl for 15-20 min. Nothing is going to happen to thiamine, it will still be there.
But now we get oatmeal which is partialy predigested, starches are transformed into simple sugars and much less starch particles would get into our blood stream.
Does it make sense now ?

Something similar happens during corn nixtamalization , starches transform into a different form (partialy gelatized or turned into simple sugars)...therefore after nixtamalization there are no starch particles in our blood stream observed...

 

[mostlylurking]

I understand your concern about thiamine but you are digressing from my topic.

Sorry about that. I'll withdraw.

Nothing is going to happen to thiamine, it will still be there.

I do not share your optimism.

But carry on with the discussion!

 

[Dr. B]

I've been dealing with a thiamine deficiency/blockage for the past year. It has made me hyper alert regarding all things that could cause thiamine deficiency/functional blockage issues. Digestibility doesn't really enter into this particular equation other than pure easily digestible sugar/starch is probably more of a problem because the starchy food has been "refined", thus removing any possible thiamine present. Relying on food sources for adequate thiamine doesn't work. If you are flooding yourself with sugar/starches, you put yourself in jeopardy. Here's a video that may clarify what I'm trying to say:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI

for sugar metabolism wouldnt you need a few milligrams thiamine for every few grams sugar? why are hundreds of milligrams needed, is it to correct a lifelong deficiency
what benefits have you noted so far. any big metabolic boosts?

 

[PaRa]

I understand your concern about thiamine but you are digressing from my topic.

I will clarify a bit:
Imagine someone eats well cooked oatmeal with egg every morning...
Oatmeal is pretty starchy and after oatmeal we will see undigested starch particles in our blood, so it is no good...right?
What if before eating (well cooked) oatmeal we add some enzymes to it? We will mix oatmeal with raw honey or papaya or banana (they all conatain amylase which transforms starch to simple sugars) and leave it in bowl for 15-20 min. Nothing is going to happen to thiamine, it will still be there.
But now we get oatmeal which is partialy predigested, starches are transformed into simple sugars and much less starch particles would get into our blood stream.
Does it make sense now ?

Something similar happens during corn nixtamalization , starches transform into a different form (partialy gelatized or turned into simple sugars)...therefore after nixtamalization there are no starch particles in our blood stream observed...

Enzymes digesting starches are supposed to be from your body, you know amylase, that most others apes don’t have, because human are able to digest starch

 

[Ben.]

I learned years ago from the local "potato guru" Ed when I lived in Juneau that refrigerated potatoes change some of the starches to sugar. So we did a few experiments, and yes, there is a noticeable change in taste, texture and "gut feel" or digestion of the same type of home grown potatoes. The difference is not that subtle. We also were growing 7 different types of potatoes which helped to clarify the difference between normal and 'pre-chilled'. Cooking methods were usually boiled or baked, and very rarely fried. Happy potatoe eating.

So you cooled them before cooking? Because cooling potatoes that are already cooked (resistant starch) is common practice especially among food prep people.

From what i have read years ago, is the expirment where coconut oil was added to the cooking water of rice and it resulted in more resistant starch to form in comparison to without it.

 

[Apple]

Enzymes digesting starches are supposed to be from your body, you know amylase, that most others apes don’t have, because human are able to digest starch

Exactly!
The idea is to predigest starches outside of body into simple sugars so as to avoid starch embolism.
Green fruit is full of starches, in ripe fruit all starches are converted into sugar. That's why RP recommends eating ripe fruit.
Digestion of starches starts already in the mouth with saliva. Saliva contains amylase.
Somebody on Quora did experiment ... He spitted on muesly (or another starchy food) and then used iodine to check if no starches were left :) Apparently it worked.