Can Taurine Deplete Choline Levels?

[ddjd]

ive noticed some mild nerve issues since supplementing taurine and i was wondering if perhaps taurine depletes choline?

the only study that i could find which was vaguely relevant suggested choline and betaine can deplete taurine, so i wondered if perhaps it also works in the opposite direction.

"Cho and Bet caused glycerol accumulation and reduced sarcosine, taurine, acetate, and β-hydroxybutyrate levels. "
Betaine and Choline Improve Lipid Homeostasis in Obesity by Participation in Mitochondrial Oxidative Demethylation

 

[Jib]

At least according to this study, taurine shouldn't deplete choline:

Choline supplementation to low methionine diets increase phospholipids in Atlantic salmon, while taurine supplementation had no effects on phospholipid status, but improved taurine status


Phosphatidylcholine is synthesized endogenously through the enzyme phosphatidylethanolamine–methyl transferase. As endogenous choline synthesis requires methyl groups from S‐adenosylmethionine (SAM), the endogenous synthesis of choline may depend on SAM availability. SAM availability depends on methionine and ATP. SAM is also a precursor for cysteine and may affect taurine and glutathione concentrations. To investigate whether choline synthesis or transsulphuration is prioritized and the interactions between taurine and choline supplementation when methionine availability is low, juvenile Atlantic salmon were fed low methionine diets with and without taurine and choline supplementation. There were no differences in growth or protein accretion following treatments. Fish fed the low methionine diets did not develop a fatty liver, but choline supplementation increased the concentration of total phospholipids in liver and muscle...

..Taurine supplementation increased taurine concentrations in liver and muscle, but no interactions with choline were present...

Liver SAM was unaffected by treatments. Two of three tanks fed the low methionine diet without choline and taurine supplementation had a higher gene expression of p38MAPK (mitogen activated phosphokinase). Choline supplementation to low methionine diets thus may have beneficial effect on the metabolic health and lipid transport to extra‐hepatic tissues...

...Taurine supplementation had no effect on phospholipids status, but increased taurine concentration in tissues and as such may affect oxidation status when methionine availability is low.

 

[ddjd]

At least according to this study, taurine shouldn't deplete choline:

Choline supplementation to low methionine diets increase phospholipids in Atlantic salmon, while taurine supplementation had no effects on phospholipid status, but improved taurine status


Phosphatidylcholine is synthesized endogenously through the enzyme phosphatidylethanolamine–methyl transferase. As endogenous choline synthesis requires methyl groups from S‐adenosylmethionine (SAM), the endogenous synthesis of choline may depend on SAM availability. SAM availability depends on methionine and ATP. SAM is also a precursor for cysteine and may affect taurine and glutathione concentrations. To investigate whether choline synthesis or transsulphuration is prioritized and the interactions between taurine and choline supplementation when methionine availability is low, juvenile Atlantic salmon were fed low methionine diets with and without taurine and choline supplementation. There were no differences in growth or protein accretion following treatments. Fish fed the low methionine diets did not develop a fatty liver, but choline supplementation increased the concentration of total phospholipids in liver and muscle...

..Taurine supplementation increased taurine concentrations in liver and muscle, but no interactions with choline were present...

Liver SAM was unaffected by treatments. Two of three tanks fed the low methionine diet without choline and taurine supplementation had a higher gene expression of p38MAPK (mitogen activated phosphokinase). Choline supplementation to low methionine diets thus may have beneficial effect on the metabolic health and lipid transport to extra‐hepatic tissues...

...Taurine supplementation had no effect on phospholipids status, but increased taurine concentration in tissues and as such may affect oxidation status when methionine availability is low.

well it's a study using salmon.

found this study :

"taurine added to CDD caused decreased expression of PEMT, a key gene involved in phosphatidylcholine (PC) synthesis..."

Taurine supplementation does not decrease homocysteine levels and liver injury induced by a choline-deficient diet - ScienceDirect

 

[Dr. B]

ive noticed some mild nerve issues since supplementing taurine and i was wondering if perhaps taurine depletes choline?

the only study that i could find which was vaguely relevant suggested choline and betaine can deplete taurine, so i wondered if perhaps it also works in the opposite direction.

"Cho and Bet caused glycerol accumulation and reduced sarcosine, taurine, acetate, and β-hydroxybutyrate levels. "
Betaine and Choline Improve Lipid Homeostasis in Obesity by Participation in Mitochondrial Oxidative Demethylation

its possible. i dont think ray likes supplementing those as they are pro methylation. whereas taurine hes spoken positively about. ive had a lot of opposing effects from taurine and beta alanine, especially as ive had the chance to use both on their own, for months at a time. taurine has a sedative effect, constipating effect, anti anxiety effect. beta alanine has an excitatory effect, laxative effect and causes some anxiety or wiredness. im not sure how they impact hair health.

 

[Peatness]

@ddjd do you take choline supplements? If so which one?

 

[ddjd]

@ddjd do you take choline supplements? If so which one?

yes i do because i naturally have very low choline. if i could choose only one it would be haiduts idealabs saturated choline- i think its safest long term.
next best is cdp choline.

alpha gpc is quite good but will only raise acetylcholine, and with regular use causes me issues.

if im desperate i would use sunflower lecithin but then theres issues with pufa so you dont want that regularly.

natural options of course egg yolks or beef liver!

 

[Peatness]

yes i do because i naturally have very low choline. if i could choose only one it would be haiduts idealabs saturated choline- i think its safest long term.
next best is cdp choline.

alpha gpc is quite good but will only raise acetylcholine, and with regular use causes me issues.

if im desperate i would use sunflower lecithin but then theres issues with pufa so you dont want that regularly.

natural options of course egg yolks or beef liver!

Thanks. Liver and egg yorks I'm avoiding for now because of vitamin A toxcity. I do have idealab mitolipin but was thinking of getting some cdp choline. I can't find a source without excipients.

 

[Dr. B]

yes i do because i naturally have very low choline. if i could choose only one it would be haiduts idealabs saturated choline- i think its safest long term.
next best is cdp choline.

alpha gpc is quite good but will only raise acetylcholine, and with regular use causes me issues.

if im desperate i would use sunflower lecithin but then theres issues with pufa so you dont want that regularly.

natural options of course egg yolks or beef liver!

what did you get from beta alanine? taurine could potentially deplete it

 

[Ismail]

yes i do because i naturally have very low choline. if i could choose only one it would be haiduts idealabs saturated choline- i think its safest long term.
next best is cdp choline.

alpha gpc is quite good but will only raise acetylcholine, and with regular use causes me issues.

if im desperate i would use sunflower lecithin but then theres issues with pufa so you dont want that regularly.

natural options of course egg yolks or beef liver!

What’s the actual name of the idealabs choline product? Thanks ?

 

[ddjd]

What’s the actual name of the idealabs choline product? Thanks ?

mitolipin im pretty sure

 

[Ismail]

mitolipin im pretty sure

thanks buddy ?