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Can Redheads Ever Tan?

  1. I was wondering if anyone knows if the right nutrients were consumed that it would be possible for a redhead to tan or at the very least greatly reduce the possibility of burning? Some redheads DO tan and the explanation this is that there are 80 different variants of the redhead gene and some variants have the ability to tan while some do not.

    But given that we know that genetics play much less of a role in the organism than we have been led to believe I am curious as to whether or not the ability of some redheads to tan or not is down to environment (diet, vitamin E levels, low pufa, metabolism etc) rather than genetics.

    For example consuming adequate vitamin E helps prevents skin damage from UV rays, melanin production is largely dependent on copper and zinc balance and I believe that b-vitamins are also important.

    I've read that redheads are much more likely to develop Parkinson's disease, and there has been recent evidence to suggest that low copper levels may be a key factor with regards to PD, perhaps Redheads are more prone to PD due to low levels of copper, as is evidenced by their fair skin and inability to tan.

    Would love to know peoples thoughts on this, do they have any experience with people who could not tan who after making dietary or supplemental changes found that they could, redhead or otherwise.

    Many thanks
     
  2. I am not a redhead, I am mediterrenean so tanning is very easy for me, but PUFA reduction in the diet definitely helps a lot with the burning. I can say that I dont burn anymore. However, working up to it is very important too. You just cant expect going from a life fully devoid of sun to tanning for hours in the peak UV.

    I would start very slowly like 5 to 10 minutes then build up from there. And I've read that circadian rhytym and getting morning and evening sun also helps a lot to build a sun tolerance. I do sunbathe everyday these days for 40-60 minutes a day. For me, its a lifesaver, and I really really love the sun a lot.
     
  3. Ever tried L-Tyrosine? Seems to work for increased and easy tanning
     
  4. Never thought of that, do you know by what mechanism it helps for tanning? I am not a redhead myself (although I do have a ginger beard) and I do tan although I also get a layer of freckles on top. This is for someone else I know.
     
  5. Thanks for the advice.
     
  6. Melanine is made from Tyrosine AFAIK
     
  7. a lot of electrolytes, aspirin, coffee along with pufa restriction, vtamin E like you mentioned all help to be able to stay in the sun longer without burning and forming freckles/moles i think.
     
  8. Just get pufa depleted via skim+sugar diet. I have done it and been able to spend hours in the sun 600km from equator. I'm blonde Caucasian.
     
  9. isn't a tanning/brown skin a damaged skin?
     
  10. I think dry, flaky, red, burned, or skin with alot of moles is a more important sign of damage. I think a healthy tanning is good, like when you see someone whose been indoors and are overly pale they look unwell. There is for sure a balance though and tanning can slip into damage quite easily.
     
  11. I remember a redhead guy on another forum used melanotan and tanned well, his hair literally turned blonde. Idk if it’s safe or not though
     
  12. No need for them to tan imo. Importance is getting vitamin D through skin and also getting it through diet as well. Also good animal food sources of vitamin D thay we commonly eat. Thats why white skin does better in northern climates that lack sun. Its not necessary to tan. Redheads hot as hell anyway but overall not a fan of tanning cosmetically speaking.

    I also read on a forum of redheads getting their hair color to darken to more brown with high dose zinc. Maybe thats why redheads are considered crazy? Zinc has naturally a weaker influence on their mental function for some genetic reason while the stimulating minerals like iron and copper are stronger. I also had lighter brown hair as a kid but it darkened a lot and I would also guess from my high dose zinc usage in the past.

    Zinc also calmed me down from how I was when I was younger, energy also less from it but stopping it I kind of just revert back like nothing ever happened. Doesnt make sense to me that zinc darkens hair more but check this article out:

    https://phys.org/news/2017-07-breakthrough-doors-melanin-linked-skin-conditions.html

    "Scientists have also unveiled an unexpected result: they have found that TYRP1 needs zinc to function, contrary to the established belief in the community that this enzyme needs copper. "We still don't know exactly what role zinc takes in the interaction with TYRP1 and we need extensive further research to find that out", explains Montse Soler López, corresponding author of the paper and scientist at the ESRF."
     
  13. Never heard of that. Sounds interesting although I'm assuming this person would not want to lose their redhair for the sake of a tan.
     
  14. Great info, many thanks I agree no need to tan I'm more concerned with mitigating skin damage without having to use strong damaging sunscreen all the time. I assumed that if someone is biologically able to tolerate more time in the sun they will have to be able to tan somewhat because they will need to produce melanin for sun protection.

    So if I understand the study you linked correctly. It is zinc more than copper they is important for protection from UV rays?
     
  15. Well I showed the study to point out how zinc may be involved in melanin as well not just copper. I believe the best protection from UV rays is maintaining optimal antioxidants status which involved adequate zinc/copper intake regardless.

    So glutathione, vitamin C, vitamin E, and yes zinc and copper for SOD... Minerals are vital for antioxidant protection via SODs and glutathione recycling (selenium, also pro-thyroid). And being able to recycle glutathione is vital as it plays a role in recycling C and E. Quality meat proteins provides AAs for glutathione synthesis and minerals like zinc which are involved in glutathione synthesis. B2 is vital for glutathione recycling as well.
     
  16. I look much healthier with a little tan. If it doesn't help with physical health, at least it's helping with mental health through increased confidence lol.

    Being so white, you reflect the sun is just not a good look for most imo (except redheads, they can rock it)
     
  17. I've noticed this phenomenon too. When I was a kid on holiday, eating PUFA-laden crisps in the sun all day, I'd always end up with terrible burns and also terrible cold sores. Now I can sit in the sun seemingly endlessly without getting burnt, despite being very fair-skinned. I'd like to have a better understanding of the mechanism here.
     
  18. I think its related to high blood sugar and pufa, also liver health
     
  19. No, it is the result of repaired damage, to prevent further damage.
     
  20. Can you please share the details of this? I have for some time been thinking about a theory of hair color, and what you wrote seems to be a n1 confirmation of a key aspect of it.
     
  21. Are you sure there is a gene that "causes red hair" ? With 80 identified it seems more like factors that play in some direction in some processes.
     
  22. All melanin needs tyrosine but I believe the big difference is pheomelanin has cysteine added to it while eumelanin does not. So another you could guess that the skin has less antioxidant protection (less cysteine going into glutathione, more into hair pigments etc) making it more likely to burn.

    So perhaps one of the ways taking certain substances can perhaps change the color of hair is that somehow its depleting cysteine which can be used for pheomelanin, forcing eumelanin production. It makes more sense to me why high dose zinc would have done that for my hair as well which was light brown almost dirty blonde before. Very neat but imo it seems like a bad idea if certain pro-tanning substances could depleting cysteine, don't want to deplete a vital amino acid for glutathione imo.
     
  23. Why even worry about "nutrients" or other supplements? I am a two on the Fitzpatrick scale and can get as dark as I want using MT-2. I've used it for years and have had zero ill effects.
     
  24. What’s your theory? I don’t really remember all the details. He used melanotan 2 iirc. He was ginger, type 1 skin I think, then he became blonde. Tbf he could’ve just dyed his hair but he said the melanotan changed it and I do think he used it, because he tanned well which he couldn’t before. Other people say it can change the pigment of hair and even eye colour aswell, although I think it usually turns hair brown? Idk really
     
  25. I have red hair. Or I should say had - it greyed - whitened - very rapidly on a low carb diet, even my eyebrows, which have since reversed to a sandy colour and my hair is a little better too. My understanding was it greyed like that because of too much meat and possibly also too much supplemental zinc but I don't know for sure.

    My skin is fair and freckled. I do get a little bit tanned. But sunburn, sometimes severe, is always a risk. I would say I am better in the sun than I used to be. I use a spray with aspirin, caffeine and niacinamide before and after time outside. Generally this is sufficient to protect me from burning, if I am outside but not too much in direct sun. The spray definitely helps speed up sunburn healing. It's sunny year round here so it's really testing. I used to cover myself in sunscreen but now that I've read how bad that stuff is I try to manage without it and I only use it if I am going to be in direct sun for a long time.

    I sometimes used to get a dark spot or two on my arms that would go if I took cancer bush (sutherlandia). Now I don't seem to get them.
     
  26. You are right, i mixed cysteine with tyrosine. Cysteine contains the sulphur i mentioned.
     
  27. My pasty Enlgish buddy who has reddish hair conditioning himself to get tan by starting off with sunrises and slowly exposed himself more. He mentioned something about the early sun building his system to eventually tan. He's a bit more in line with The Kruse folks, so maybe it has to do something with that approach.
     
  28. I think it’s true that you have to build your sun exposure to increase the time you don’t burn in the sun.

    I remember summer 19, where before my vacation I didn’t get much sun exposure at all, and I got a sunburn when the vacation started. And I avoided PUFA for a year at that point.
    Whereas Summer 18 I ate significantly more PUFA, but I tanned a lot before the vacation and didn’t get any sunburn.
     
  29. I agree that is in large part of the premise of my post, that there are likely environmental factors that greatly contribute to Redheads ability to tan and that they may be able to be mitigated by proactive dietary strategies.
     
  30. I am Fitzpatrick skin type one. I developed a very moderate tan for the first time in my life as an adult, after practising a carnivore diet and training my skin with early morning sun exposure before the UV was strong, and overtime increasing my exposure to mid day UV. I can now take you UV12 for 30 to 40 minutes without issue, but I tend to take the majority of my sun in the morning and afternoon, with just a large vitamin D generating dose at solar noon. My hair has also photo-bleached blonde. I now eat meat, dairy and fruit, never take supplements, and have not seen any changes negative or positive with respect to tanning. I do eat liver and oysters weekly wrt some of the nutrients others have mentioned here.
     
  31. I had red hair as a child. It's gone dark now but I used to still be able to tan (not as much as my siblings with dark hair, and I tan more easily now). I'm part maltese which probably explains it. Genetics. Ftiw my hair started to go darker once I hit puberty so likely a hormonal shift caused a change in gene expression? I also got diagnosed with crohn's at this time.

    Don't think you can do much without unwanted sides tbh. Just get into the sun enough but not to burn.
     
  32. I was just about to post the same study. Your link is more detailed then the one I found.

    Having read through the article it I'm trying to figure out if this is something that someone could actually do themselves. I can tan but quite slowly and I'm tempted to give this a try myself.

    "researchers have come up with a solution that they think will actually work on us - a different class of compounds that can not only boost the pigmentation process, but also squeeze through the outer layers of our epidermis.
    These tiny molecules work by inhibiting SIK (Salt Inducible Kinase) enzymes in the skin, which is like a 'master off switch' for melanin production."

    Don't really know what the SIK enzymes are and if it is dangerous to interfere with them.

    The full study was published in Cell and can be found here: https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/f...m/retrieve/pii/S2211124717306848?showall=true
     
  33. Regardless of skin color your resistance to "tanning" (change from your natural color) goes down as vitality & metabolism go up. However, "your natural color" also changes based on your health. Just think of the flush/reddish skin tones that make-up tries to replicate. Higher estrogen makes skin darker, and serotonin seems to make eyes darker as well - though I'm sure it isn't that simple.
     
  34. i love to see studys about that.
     
  35. What are peoples/Rays thoughts on Melanotan 2? I've seen some very compelling before and after photos of this even as a nasal spray from redheads getting quite a nice tan. Obviously raises the melanin pigment, but I don't know the mechanism so I couldn't comment on the safety? Would be great to get some optinions on this!

    (Just realised it's been briefly mentoined in the thread earlier, although no one has mentioned the safety profile or rays opinion on it)
     
  36. No idea I was trying to find out that myself. I am very weary though and my instinct is that it is not safe.
     
  37. Interesting, thanks. Why do you think it’s not safe?