Can Pregnenlone Help With Low Cortisol?

[Bodhi]

Hello,

I suffer from Subclinical Hypothyroidism :
Averige TSH is 5
t 4 is 13
Free T3 3.19 (ref. 2.1-4.2)
Reverse T 3 0.40 (ref. 0.14-0.54)

I seem to have Low Cortisol

Is it possible to raise Cortisol with Pregnenlone so the reverse T3 wil go down so the T3 wil get absorbed better in the cell en thus TSH wil decrease??

Bodhi

 

[HDD]

Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Cortisol/Cortisone_ Dr. Ray Peat

Question: Have very hypothyroid friend who says she has low cortisol
because her pituitary doesn't work. She says the low cortisol was
confirmed by saliva and blood tests.

Ray Peat: Addison's disease, with adrenal cortex degeneration, can
cause cortisol deficiency, in which case progesterone would
compensate, but doctors often tell people they "don't have enough
cortisol" without proper confirmation.

Question: Would pregnenolone correct this?

Peat: Pregnenolone should usually do it, but progesterone is more
certain if the adrenals are really destroyed.

search.php?keywords=Cortisol&t=1035&sf=msgonly


This is part of a longer post from the link above. Reading the whole post could be helpful. Your TSH is high. How is your cholesterol?


A little more from the thread I linked-

Cortisol and weak adrenals

Cortisol is a little more water soluble than progesterone, and a
diurnal cycle can be seen in the saliva, but the absolute amounts
aren't as meaningful as in the serum. Thyroid is needed for the
adrenals to function
well, and adequate cholesterol, as raw material. It's popular to talk
about "weak adrenals," but the adrenal cortex regenerates very well.
Animal experimenters can make animals that lack the adrenal medulla by
scooping out everything inside the adrenal capsule, and the remaining
cells quickly regenerate the steroid producing tissues, the cortex. So
I think the "low adrenal" people are simply low thyroid, or deficient
in cholesterol or nutrients.

 

[Strongbad]

I took pregnenolone too much and found out that I'm hypo, too. There's a recent thread about it here: http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=6019&start=30#p72391

It's recommended to take very little pregnenolone if you're hypo. Otherwise, you'll produce tons of adrenaline and prolactin. Trust me, it's not pleasant at all. Just had lots of those two as of yesterday.

 

[kineticz]

As said, if you're really hypo, don't take pregnenolone, especially non-lipid matrix oral.

Some people with high RT3 and high TSH actually do well by adding in exogenous T3. I have similar blood results, very high FT3, but the addition of T3 got things going, along with reducing serotonin and fatty acids in favour of glucose.

Often, hypothyroidism is a result, not of low cortisol, but of suffocated mitochondria from prolonged low basal metabolic rate, resulting in low progesterone. Adding T3 can reduce TSH and resensitize mitochondria and thyroid receptors.

 

[Bodhi]

Kineticz,

Can my state also been resolved bij taking Armour...??

So are you saying that my Low Cortisol, Low Aldosterone, Low Pregnenelone And my Slow Thyroid can be fixed with taking T3 supplement? That is do weird because most alernative health care practitioners say you need to treat your adrenals first to fix the Thyroid while others say the exact opposite....

I'm confused but thank you for your answer was the one i was looking for!

 

[answersfound]

So would progesterone be appropriate in a 25 year old male with "crashed adrenals" or would pregnenolone suffice?

 

[kineticz]

Kineticz,

Can my state also been resolved bij taking Armour...??

So are you saying that my Low Cortisol, Low Aldosterone, Low Pregnenelone And my Slow Thyroid can be fixed with taking T3 supplement? That is do weird because most alernative health care practitioners say you need to treat your adrenals first to fix the Thyroid while others say the exact opposite....

I'm confused but thank you for your answer was the one i was looking for!

I have no experience with Armour.

What I am saying is, starting with T3 first, will uncover where you need to supplement, as the forced increase in metabolic rate will bring forward symptoms of whatever is causing your ills.

T3 stimulates cortisol synthesis, and will increase basal metabolic rate. High RT3 is your body's way of telling you that you slumped into a low energetic state, and T4 is not being used effectively.

I always tried the adrenal hormones first, but it doesn't fix hypothyroidism. If I could go back in time, I'd start with thyroid hormone, not adrenal hormones (prog, preg, dhea).

Also, reducing your serotonin, which will definitely be high, is a good idea to increase the cholesterol - preg - prog - cortisol chain.

Also, high RT3 blocks T3 receptors. So adding more T3 will push more into cells that you need to get going.

 

[answersfound]

Kineticz,

Can my state also been resolved bij taking Armour...??

So are you saying that my Low Cortisol, Low Aldosterone, Low Pregnenelone And my Slow Thyroid can be fixed with taking T3 supplement? That is do weird because most alernative health care practitioners say you need to treat your adrenals first to fix the Thyroid while others say the exact opposite....

I'm confused but thank you for your answer was the one i was looking for!

I have no experience with Armour.

What I am saying is, starting with T3 first, will uncover where you need to supplement, as the forced increase in metabolic rate will bring forward symptoms of whatever is causing your ills.

T3 stimulates cortisol synthesis, and will increase basal metabolic rate. High RT3 is your body's way of telling you that you slumped into a low energetic state, and T4 is not being used effectively.

I always tried the adrenal hormones first, but it doesn't fix hypothyroidism. If I could go back in time, I'd start with thyroid hormone, not adrenal hormones (prog, preg, dhea).

Also, reducing your serotonin, which will definitely be high, is a good idea to increase the cholesterol - preg - prog - cortisol chain.

Also, high RT3 blocks T3 receptors. So adding more T3 will push more into cells that you need to get going.

Kinetics....what are your thoughts on my question?

Thanks!

 

[kineticz]

So would progesterone be appropriate in a 25 year old male with "crashed adrenals" or would pregnenolone suffice?

Define and/or measure how you have concluded on crashed adrenals.

Progesterone has been shown to attenuate ACTH suppression so is supportive of the adrenal cortex, but if you are cholesterol or thyroid deficient, it can yield unpleasant symptoms.

Thanks

 

[answersfound]

So would progesterone be appropriate in a 25 year old male with "crashed adrenals" or would pregnenolone suffice?

Define and/or measure how you have concluded on crashed adrenals.

Progesterone has been shown to attenuate ACTH suppression so is supportive of the adrenal cortex, but if you are cholesterol or thyroid deficient, it can yield unpleasant symptoms.

Thanks

extreme sensitivity to cytomel. the RT3 adrenal yahoo people said that I should go on hydrocortisone because I had a bad reaction to 5 mcg. however, ray says that I should just stick with 1.25 mcg.

 

[kineticz]

So would progesterone be appropriate in a 25 year old male with "crashed adrenals" or would pregnenolone suffice?

Define and/or measure how you have concluded on crashed adrenals.

Progesterone has been shown to attenuate ACTH suppression so is supportive of the adrenal cortex, but if you are cholesterol or thyroid deficient, it can yield unpleasant symptoms.

Thanks

extreme sensitivity to cytomel. the RT3 adrenal yahoo people said that I should go on hydrocortisone because I had a bad reaction to 5 mcg. however, ray says that I should just stick with 1.25 mcg.

What reaction did you have to such low doses of T3?

Have you had 4 x adrenal test? Do you have any other blood results such as thyroid, prolactin.

For your scenario, it appears your adrenal steroids are exhausted, rather than suppressed. My experience and views are primarily based on adrenal suppression, so tackling it from the other end is risky for me to suggest. What I do know, is transdermal pregnenolone is very safe if you do try preg. The addition of progesterone is different because unlike pregnenolone it will actually speed up ACTH, and potentially further exhaust you.

Or, progesterone will team up with T3 to boost metabolism. It's difficult to know which end of the adrenal cascade you are depleted.

 

[answersfound]

So would progesterone be appropriate in a 25 year old male with "crashed adrenals" or would pregnenolone suffice?

Define and/or measure how you have concluded on crashed adrenals.

Progesterone has been shown to attenuate ACTH suppression so is supportive of the adrenal cortex, but if you are cholesterol or thyroid deficient, it can yield unpleasant symptoms.

Thanks

extreme sensitivity to cytomel. the RT3 adrenal yahoo people said that I should go on hydrocortisone because I had a bad reaction to 5 mcg. however, ray says that I should just stick with 1.25 mcg.

What reaction did you have to such low doses of T3?

Have you had 4 x adrenal test? Do you have any other blood results such as thyroid, prolactin.

For your scenario, it appears your adrenal steroids are exhausted, rather than suppressed. My experience and views are primarily based on adrenal suppression, so tackling it from the other end is risky for me to suggest. What I do know, is transdermal pregnenolone is very safe if you do try preg. The addition of progesterone is different because unlike pregnenolone it will actually speed up ACTH, and potentially further exhaust you.

Or, progesterone will team up with T3 to boost metabolism. It's difficult to know which end of the adrenal cascade you are depleted.

My response is irritability and this feeling of anger/discomfort. My hands and feet are cold and even hurt a bit. it's hard to describe but it is a bad reaction that can last an entire day.

Okay. I have not had a 4x adrenal test. I wake up feeling okay, not great. I eat breakfast and spend a couple hours doing pretty simple tasks, feeling tired. Then the afternoon rolls around and I feel exhausted. Sometimes I'll take a short nap, sometimes I'll just lay on the couch. Then I have a bit more energy at night and usually can't go to sleep until 2-3 AM

 

[Bodhi]

Thank you Kineticz,

I have another 4 months left of adrenal supplements i will finish them first and then do another lab test if nothing has improved i will try some Natural Dessicated Thyroid.

You know with all the questions i had so far an all the anwers i'm getting it seems that trying for yourself and experiencing is best when it comes down to supplements and hormones...

Bodhi

 

[yoshiesque]

Chris Kresser (whom I would be following exclusively if RP did not exist) recommends it in Adrenal Fatigue. Here is what he says:

HORMONES (PREGNENOLONE AND DHEA)
Pregnenolone is the precursor to steroid hormones like cortisol and DHEA, and sex
hormones like estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. DHEA is a hormone produced
by the adrenal glands that is converted into estrogen and testosterone. Both are used by
some clinicians to treat advanced Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome, and can be very effective
when used judiciously. However, hormones are extremely powerful substances with
numerous “downstream” effects in the body, so they can produce strong side effects
even at relatively small doses. These include acne, hair loss, mood swings, anxiety,
agitation, and PMS symptoms in women. You should also be aware that taking
supplemental hormones for an extended period can decrease your body’s natural
production of those hormones. It can be very difficult in these cases to wean off the
supplemental hormones; this is particularly true for hormone creams, which tend to cause
a build-up of hormones in body tissues.

The suggested dose of pregnenolone is 10–50 mg/d in divided doses. The suggested
dose of DHEA is the same, but since pregnenolone can be converted into DHEA, you
should aim for the lower end of the DHEA dose range. Because of the high potential for
side effects, and the potential for dependency to develop when they’re misused, I don’t
recommend taking DHEA and prenenolone unless you are under the supervision of a
practitioner experienced in their use.

 

[Bodhi]

yoshiesque,

I have a few bottles here at home of sublingual Pregnenelone (10mg)
This is wat i'm gonna try if my adrenal supplements seem to have no effect on my thyroid and well being.
My Dhea an Testosterone is pretty good so i will not gonna use DHEA , maybe when i reach 50 i will look at DHEA again...

So for 2 weeks i will try the 10 mg's of Preg see how i go...

Another option i am thinking about is drop ALL the Adrenal related support and start with NDT to see is a supported optimal thyroid function's effect on the Adrenals...

Its hard everyone says something different... Where to start in relation to the Thyroid, no wonder my Allophtic doctor (who's is very open towards alernatives and even promotes natural Thyroid meds.) Says that because hormones are so complex even people who tried alternatives for year come back to me and i simply fix their issuse by aduqate Thyroid dosages....

 

[yoshiesque]

I should also post all the other info CK put on adrenal fatigue. Look below for what CK says

Supplements

The supplements below are listed in the approximate order that you should try them,
beginning with gentle, supportive nutrients and ending with hormones, which should be
considered a last line of defense and ideally taken under the supervision of a qualified
health care practitioner. See the Supplement Guide for up-to-date brand and dosage
recommendations.

PANTHETHINE
Pantethine, the active form of pantothenic acid (B5), is one of the most important
nutrients for adrenal function. It is converted into an enzyme called co-enzyme A. Coenzyme
A is required to produce adrenal hormones like cortisol and aldosterone, which
support healthy adrenal function. The suggested dose of pantethine is 450 mg twice a
day with food.

VITAMIN C
The adrenal glands contain one of the highest concentrations of vitamin C in the body.
Vitamin C is required for the production of adrenal hormones, including cortisol, and it
also helps protect against oxidative damage during times of stress. Maintaining sufficient
vitamin C levels prevents inflammation, boosts immune function, fights infection, and
promotes effective detoxification.

There are many different forms of vitamin C, each with its own properties and
bioavailability. These include mineral ascorbates (sodium ascorbate, potassium
ascorbate, calcium ascorbate, magnesium ascorbate), mineral ascorbate blends and
ascorbyl palmitate. Sodium ascorbate is the preferred form of vitamin C for Adrenal
Fatigue Syndrome. 1,000 mg of sodium ascorbate contains about 890 mg of ascorbic
acid (vitamin C), and 110 mg of sodium. Since most people with Adrenal Fatigue
Syndrome have low blood pressure, a little extra sodium from sodium ascorbate could
help normalize blood pressure.

Just as there are different forms of vitamin C, there are different delivery systems. Most
forms of oral vitamin C bump up against an “absorption barrier” that limits the level of
vitamin C that can enter the bloodstream. However, when vitamin C is encapsulated in a
liposome (a small “bubble” composed of the same material that our cell membranes are
made from), these absorption barriers are bypassed and bioavailability is dramatically
improved. In fact, one study showed that this liposomal form produced serum levels of
vitamin C that were twice as high as typical oral vitamin C supplements. 4 With all of this
in mind, I recommend liposomal sodium ascorbate for those suffering from Adrenal
Fatigue Syndrome. The suggested dose is 500–3,000 mg/d. Because liposomal vitamin
C is a high potency form, it’s best to start at the lower end of this range and increase
gradually until you get the desired result. If you experience loose stools, reduce the dose
until they normalize.

HERBS
Several herbs have a long history of use in traditional medicine for symptoms related to
Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome, and modern studies have also confirmed their utility. These
include Ashwagandha, Siberian ginseng, maca root, rhodiola, and licorice root extract.
They are generally well-tolerated, and have few side effects when used appropriately.
Unless you are working with a trained herbalist or health care practitioner, the best

ADRENAL GLANDULARS
A “glandular” refers to an extract of a hormone-producing gland, usually from a pig or a
cow, that is used in liquid or tablet form to treat an illness, syndrome or disease.
Glandulars have been used in traditional medicine for as long as 3,000 years, and
dessicated thyroid (i.e. “thyroid glandulars”) is still used by many functional and
alternative medicine practitioners to treat hypothyroidism.

Adrenal glandulars can increase energy and, perhaps paradoxically, promote a state of
calm well-being in some people with Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome. However, I’ve found
that this is mostly true in those with milder versions of adrenal fatigue. In people with
more advanced conditions, adrenal glandulars tend to cause people to feel what I call
“twired”—tired and wired at the same time. In these situations, using adrenal glandulars is
almost like whipping an exhausted horse; you might get a temporary boost of energy, but
it will only deepen the underlying fatigue.

If you do choose to try adrenal glandulars, make sure they come from cows raised
organically on pasture in New Zealand, where there is no history of Mad Cow Disease.
Since glandulars come in many forms with many different potencies, it’s not possible to
offer a standard dosage recommendation; but I suggest starting with approximately onefourth
to one-half of the dose suggested on the product label, and increasing slowly from
there.

Also in his book (which I highly recommend for more info on health issues, he is similar to RP in many ways) he discusses for Adrenal Fatigue the importance of the following:

- Getting adequate protein, especially a good 40-50g worth in the morning for your first meal
- Avoiding excess potassium and consuming good amounts of salt
- Eating frequently - 5-7 meals
- Avoiding caffeine and alcohol
- Lifestyle/stress management - stress really stuffs things up so things like yoga/meditation help
- Sleeping heaps
- Exercise - small amounts, not intense.
- Contact with nature - getting outside is known to really reduce stress and has restorative effects

Also for more information check out these links:

http://chriskresser.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-and-stress-a-new-frontier-for-treatment
http://chriskresser.com/ask-the-rd-adrenal-fatigue-2

Even though im a big fan of RPs diet, sometimes if you have specific health issues it might be worth while going on a different diet temporarily until that issue resolves.

 

[Strongbad]

I should also post all the other info CK put on adrenal fatigue. Look below for what CK says

Supplements

The supplements below are listed in the approximate order that you should try them,
beginning with gentle, supportive nutrients and ending with hormones, which should be
considered a last line of defense and ideally taken under the supervision of a qualified
health care practitioner. See the Supplement Guide for up-to-date brand and dosage
recommendations.

PANTHETHINE
Pantethine, the active form of pantothenic acid (B5), is one of the most important
nutrients for adrenal function. It is converted into an enzyme called co-enzyme A. Coenzyme
A is required to produce adrenal hormones like cortisol and aldosterone, which
support healthy adrenal function. The suggested dose of pantethine is 450 mg twice a
day with food.

VITAMIN C
The adrenal glands contain one of the highest concentrations of vitamin C in the body.
Vitamin C is required for the production of adrenal hormones, including cortisol, and it
also helps protect against oxidative damage during times of stress. Maintaining sufficient
vitamin C levels prevents inflammation, boosts immune function, fights infection, and
promotes effective detoxification.

There are many different forms of vitamin C, each with its own properties and
bioavailability. These include mineral ascorbates (sodium ascorbate, potassium
ascorbate, calcium ascorbate, magnesium ascorbate), mineral ascorbate blends and
ascorbyl palmitate. Sodium ascorbate is the preferred form of vitamin C for Adrenal
Fatigue Syndrome. 1,000 mg of sodium ascorbate contains about 890 mg of ascorbic
acid (vitamin C), and 110 mg of sodium. Since most people with Adrenal Fatigue
Syndrome have low blood pressure, a little extra sodium from sodium ascorbate could
help normalize blood pressure.

Just as there are different forms of vitamin C, there are different delivery systems. Most
forms of oral vitamin C bump up against an “absorption barrier” that limits the level of
vitamin C that can enter the bloodstream. However, when vitamin C is encapsulated in a
liposome (a small “bubble” composed of the same material that our cell membranes are
made from), these absorption barriers are bypassed and bioavailability is dramatically
improved. In fact, one study showed that this liposomal form produced serum levels of
vitamin C that were twice as high as typical oral vitamin C supplements. 4 With all of this
in mind, I recommend liposomal sodium ascorbate for those suffering from Adrenal
Fatigue Syndrome. The suggested dose is 500–3,000 mg/d. Because liposomal vitamin
C is a high potency form, it’s best to start at the lower end of this range and increase
gradually until you get the desired result. If you experience loose stools, reduce the dose
until they normalize.

HERBS
Several herbs have a long history of use in traditional medicine for symptoms related to
Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome, and modern studies have also confirmed their utility. These
include Ashwagandha, Siberian ginseng, maca root, rhodiola, and licorice root extract.
They are generally well-tolerated, and have few side effects when used appropriately.
Unless you are working with a trained herbalist or health care practitioner, the best

ADRENAL GLANDULARS
A “glandular” refers to an extract of a hormone-producing gland, usually from a pig or a
cow, that is used in liquid or tablet form to treat an illness, syndrome or disease.
Glandulars have been used in traditional medicine for as long as 3,000 years, and
dessicated thyroid (i.e. “thyroid glandulars”) is still used by many functional and
alternative medicine practitioners to treat hypothyroidism.

Adrenal glandulars can increase energy and, perhaps paradoxically, promote a state of
calm well-being in some people with Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome. However, I’ve found
that this is mostly true in those with milder versions of adrenal fatigue. In people with
more advanced conditions, adrenal glandulars tend to cause people to feel what I call
“twired”—tired and wired at the same time. In these situations, using adrenal glandulars is
almost like whipping an exhausted horse; you might get a temporary boost of energy, but
it will only deepen the underlying fatigue.

If you do choose to try adrenal glandulars, make sure they come from cows raised
organically on pasture in New Zealand, where there is no history of Mad Cow Disease.
Since glandulars come in many forms with many different potencies, it’s not possible to
offer a standard dosage recommendation; but I suggest starting with approximately onefourth
to one-half of the dose suggested on the product label, and increasing slowly from
there.

Also in his book (which I highly recommend for more info on health issues, he is similar to RP in many ways) he discusses for Adrenal Fatigue the importance of the following:

- Getting adequate protein, especially a good 40-50g worth in the morning for your first meal
- Avoiding excess potassium and consuming good amounts of salt
- Eating frequently - 5-7 meals
- Avoiding caffeine and alcohol
- Lifestyle/stress management - stress really stuffs things up so things like yoga/meditation help
- Sleeping heaps
- Exercise - small amounts, not intense.
- Contact with nature - getting outside is known to really reduce stress and has restorative effects

Also for more information check out these links:

http://chriskresser.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-and-stress-a-new-frontier-for-treatment
http://chriskresser.com/ask-the-rd-adrenal-fatigue-2

Even though im a big fan of RPs diet, sometimes if you have specific health issues it might be worth while going on a different diet temporarily until that issue resolves.

This info is what I'm looking for, since I have adrenal fatigue. Thank you!

 

[kineticz]

Low basal metabolic rate and low pregnenolone are the root cause. Start with thyroid hormone as adding preg is not desirable if your cells have no use for it. Excess preg will further downregulate your metabolism.

The advice above says 'avoid potassium' I have wondered recently how this is possible when orange juice has lots of pottasium.

 

[HDD]

If your thyroid is working efficiently, your pituitary doesn't have much to do and you're not likely to get a pituitary tumor, your adrenals don't have much to do, and your ovaries don't get over stimulated. The other glands have an easy job when your thyroid is working right. If your thyroid gets interfered with, you have to rev up your adrenals and your pituitary becomes commander in chief and tells everyone what to do."

Adrenals just happen to be at the scene of the crime, they are not however the perpetrator.

Here is my way of understanding "adrenal fatigue" and what's going on:

Thyroid function lowers, normal energy production waivers, body needs more energy and starts up the emergency energy system and kicks in the adrenals. So now you have energy again, albeit, destructive energy that is wrecking your body. So the adrenals are supporting your energy needs now, while at the same time, thyroid function continues to go lower and lower, finally, the body has gotten to the point that it cannot even support your emergency system anymore, so, to save energy, it takes the adrenal system offline. That's when you feel like someone has pulled the plug on your life. That's the dreaded adrenal crash, the OMG I feel like I am dying because there is zero energy available. The adrenals are not "fatigued", the body just does not have the energy supply to support it anymore so it takes the adrenals offline. "Adrenal fatigue"( I cringe using those two words) is just another set of symptoms of everything hypothyroid.

Re: Have Adrenal Fatigue? No You Don't
Postby ttramone » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:04 pm

I have to agree with Danny (and Ray) that the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, as it stands, is bogus (in my experience). A doctor I have seen diagnosed me with 'adrenal fatigue', due to chronic low cortisol (in the blood tests). Apparently my adrenals are fatigued, just over-worked, need a rest. So I had to avoid public enemy number one - coffee. Take some expensive adrenal potion. Couldn't make the cortisol budge though, until one day week I got sick with the flu. Had my blood test during that time, and my cortisol was through the roof. I asked the doctor how is this possible?? I thought me 'drenals were kaput? Of course, he had no answer. Literally. He couldn't even make something up. But I should be thankful because it did make me take ownership over my health and led me to the Peat.

Things began to improve for me when I went on NDT btw...

 

[Blossom]

:1 HDD!