Can Niacinamide Increase Serotonin?

[Mittir]

burtlancast : Ray explained high triglycerides can impair normal production of energy.

Do you remember where he explained it. I have heard him quoting Uffe Ravnskov in
WBM sugar I interview that triglyceride is anti-infective and he quoted another study
that claimed triglyceride is anti-inflammatory. In another interview he was talking about
fructose increasing triglyceride and he said that triglyceride made from sugar is
harmless and excess triglyceride simply shows slow metabolism. In another interview
he said that estrogen, cortisol, insulin and low thyroid increases serum triglyceride.
He also explained high triglycerides in Mary Shomon interview

Mary Shomon: Why do women with treated hypothyroidism frequently still have inappropriately high levels of cholesterol and high triglycerides, and what can they do to help lower these levels?

Dr. Ray Peat: Often it's because they were given thyroxine, instead of the active thyroid hormone, but hypertriglyceridemia can be caused by a variety of things that interact with hypothyroidism. Estrogen treatment is a common cause of high triglycerides, and deficiencies of magnesium, copper, and protein can contribute to that abnormality. Toxins, including some drugs and herbs, can irritate or stimulate the liver to produce too much triglyceride.

 

[burtlancast]

Ray was talking about the Randle effect: it concerns the free fatty acids

In 1963, P.J. Randle clearly described the inhibition of glucose oxidation by free fatty acids. Later, when lipid emulsions came into use for intravenous feeding in hospitals, it was found that they blocked glucose oxidation, lowered the metabolic rate, suppressed immunity, and increased lipid peroxidation and oxidative stress.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gl ... etes.shtml

I assume the concentrations of both triglycerides and free fatty acids are correlated, as a triglyceride is a glycerol with 3 fatty acids.

In his article, Ray cites niacinamide as being studied to be able to lower free fatty acids and thus protect the heart.

On the other hand, Hoffer stated, based on human trials, that niacinamide doesn't have the same regulator effect on blood lipids as do niacin and hexaniacinate.

 

[jyb]

Abram Hoffer took himself 1g niacin three times a day, and lived to 92 in perfect health.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naweamfmhUI)

He explained in his books that NIACINAMIDE DOESN'T regularize blood lipids as do Niacin and Inositol hexaniacinate.

This is an important factor in those with high triglycerides and diabetics; Ray explained high triglycerides can impair normal production of energy.

I don't know where this situation leaves serotonin production, but it certainly didn't seem to do harm to Hoffer's health.

And of course, the migraines triggered by niacin are caused by it's flush, vasodilatation effect, not by the fillers in the vitamin.

As i take myself 3 g/day, i experienced them too in the very beginning. The more regularly i take niacin, the less flush and the less migraines i get. And it's absolutely true, you do feel like you were back in highschool.

I'm not sure how Hoffer thought niacin worked, I haven't read the book. I've seen one interview of him recommending niacin and avoiding sugar.

It seems like the amount required to experience a flush varies a lot across inviduals. I took 1500mg niacin in a single dose after a meal without experiencing much flush (LEF brand, which according to reviews is potent).

 

[jyb]

Why does RP keep writing about niacinamide rather than niacin? Hoffer mentions niacin a lot more than niacinamide.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html

 

[4peatssake]

Why does RP keep writing about niacinamide rather than niacin? Hoffer mentions niacin a lot more than niacinamide.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html

Ask him.

My understanding is that he consider niacinamide to be a "safer" supplement but I could be mistaken.

Niacinamide, used in moderate doses, can safely help to restrain the excessive production of free fatty acids, and also helps to limit the wasteful conversion of glucose into fat. There is evidence that diabetics are chronically deficient in niacin. Excess fatty acids in the blood probably divert tryptophan from niacin synthesis into serotonin synthesis.

Good question.

 

[burtlancast]

It would be nice for someone to ask Ray his opinion on why Hoffer claimed niacinamide cannot regularise blood lipids levels as efficiently as do niacine and hexaniacinate.

 

[jyb]

It would be nice for someone to ask Ray his opinion on why Hoffer claimed niacinamide cannot regularise blood lipids levels as efficiently as do niacine and hexaniacinate.

Go ahead, if not then I will. I'm guessing that will also answer my question on why he writes about niacinamide specifically rather than niacin.

I like niacin because there seems to be more symptoms when taken in excess, which helps to determine the optimal dose.

 

[charlie]

It would be nice for someone to ask Ray his opinion on why Hoffer claimed niacinamide cannot regularise blood lipids levels as efficiently as do niacine and hexaniacinate.

Go ahead, if not then I will. I'm guessing that will also answer my question on why he writes about niacinamide specifically rather than niacin.

I like niacin because there seems to be more symptoms when taken in excess, which helps to determine the optimal dose.

I am thinking of trying niacin so I hope someone asks him and reports back.

 

[burtlancast]

Can you guys contact Ray at his usual email adress ?
Does he have a special one for consultations ?

 

[jyb]

I am thinking of trying niacin so I hope someone asks him and reports back.

I've done several grams (sometimes at once) last few days, instead of niacinamide. I hardly got any flushing or nausea from it, which might indicate I need more - see the link I posted above.

 

[burtlancast]

I am thinking of trying niacin so I hope someone asks him and reports back.

I've done several grams (sometimes at once) last few days, instead of niacinamide. I hardly got any flushing or nausea from it, which might indicate I need more - see the link I posted above.

Strange.
I usually take 3 gr/ day, and if i forget to take one dose, the next one will always thoroughly flush me.

 

[jyb]

Just as a parenthesis, I noticed this surprising quote from Hoffer:

Also there is evidence that contraceptive steroids, estrogens, stimulate tryptophan oxygenase, the enzyme that converts the tryptophan into niacin.

in http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html.

I recommend that article on Hoffer and niacin, seems like a good preview if you don't have time to read Hoffer's book.

 

[janna0805]

According to this article niacinamide does elevate serotonin in the blood:

http://www.actaps.com.cn/qikan/manage/w ... 3-1-05.pdf

Excess nicotinamide increases plasma serotonin and histamine levels.

Tian YJ, Li D, Ma Q, Gu XY, Guo M, Lun YZ, Sun WP, Wang XY, Cao Y, Zhou SS.

Source

Institute of Basic Medical Sciences, Medical College, Dalian University, Dalian 116622, China; Department of Neurology, Zhongshan Hospital Affiliated to Dalian University, Dalian 116001, China; College of Environmental and Chemical Engineering, Dalian University, Dalian 116622, China; Department of Physiology, Institute of Basic Medical Sciences, China Medical University, Shenyang 110001, China. E-mail: [email protected].


Abstract


Methylation, a methyl group-consuming reaction, plays a key role in the degradation (i.e., inactivation) of monoamine neurotransmitters, including catecholamines, serotonin and histamine. Without labile methyl groups, the methylation-mediated degradation cannot take place. Although high niacin (nicotinic acid and nicotinamide) intake, which is very common nowadays, is known to deplete the body's methyl-group pool, its effect on monoamine-neurotransmitter degradation is not well understood. The aim of this article was to investigate the effect of excess nicotinamide on the levels of plasma serotonin and histamine in healthy subjects. Urine and venous blood samples were collected from nine healthy male volunteers before and after oral loading with 100 mg nicotinamide. Plasma N(1)-methylnicotinamide, urinary N(1)-methyl-2-pyridone-5-carboxamide (2-Py), and plasma betaine levels were measured by using high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). Plasma concentrations of choline, serotonin and histamine were measured using commercial kits. The results showed that the plasma N(1)-methylnicotinamide level and the urinary excretion of 2-Py significantly increased after oral loading with 100 mg nicotinamide, which was accompanied with a decrease in the methyl-group donor betaine. Compared with those before nicotinamide load, five-hour postload plasma serotonin and histamine levels significantly increased. These results suggest that excess nicotinamide can disturb monoamine-neurotransmitter metabolism. These findings may be of significance in understanding the etiology of monoamine-related mental diseases, such as schizophrenia and autism (a neurodevelopmental disorder).

 

[janna0805]

Also, there is a much older article about the role of nicotinamide on uptake and release of serotonin, in which very high doses of nicotinamide are used in the brain cortex of diabetic rats:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8588246

Ukr Biokhim Zh. 1995 Jan-Feb;67(1):105-11.

[Effect of nicotinamide on the uptake and release of serotonin and GABA by cerebral cortex synaptosomes in rats with diabetes induced by streptozotocin].
[Article in Russian]
Donchenko GV, Kuchmerovskaia TM, Parkhomets PK, Obrosova IG, Klimenko AP, Efimov AS.

Abstract
Studies of neurotransmitter uptake and release by isolated rats brain cortex synaptosomes demonstrated that [2-14C]serotonin uptake was by 41% lower in streptozotocin-diabetic rats as compared to control. The [U-14C]GABA uptake was considerably elevated. [2-14C]serotonin and [U-14C]GABA release from the neurotransmitter pre-loaded synaptosomes showed significant elevation, especially during the first 3 minutes. Nicotinamide (NAm) administration (200 mg/kg body weight daily, 14 days) to diabetic rats restored synaptosomal serotonin uptake up to control levels, while the GABA uptake tended to decrease in diabetic rats. With this dose of NAm the partial restoration of serotonin and GABA release was achieved. The modulating effect of in vivo administered NAm acts via NAD which binds specifically with synaptic membranes. It has been shown that brain NAD(P)/NAD(P)H decreased while sorbitol level increased in streptozotocin-diabetic rats as compared to control. The NAm administration to diabetic rats is accompanied by the increase of NAD(P)/NAD(P)H and the reduction of brain sorbitol level. Data obtained confirm the important role of NAm in the pathogenesis of diabetic encephalopathies.

 

[Peata]

I just started taking niacinamide a couple days ago, so I'm interested in whether it increases serotonin or not.

 

[jyb]

I just started taking niacinamide a couple days ago, so I'm interested in whether it increases serotonin or not.

I believe RP would recommend 50-150mg daily? That's a lot compared to the recommend daily intake, but less than the 100mg single shot in the serotonin study and a lot less than what you get in whole vitamin pills or Hoffer's protocol with niacin/niacinamide.

 

[Peata]

For a while, I'm going to "mega dose" it to see if it can help knock down some anxiety I've had all week. It was related to a situation that has now resolved for the better, but I still need some assistance getting the residual anxiety effects in my body tamped down. After that, maybe I'll just take it in a small dose regularly.

 

[j.]

So you're now experimenting with both niacinamide and thyroid at once? Please remind me, what thyroid do you use?

 

[Mittir]

I believe RP would recommend 50-150mg daily? That's a lot compared to the recommend daily intake, but less than the 100mg single shot in the serotonin study and a lot less than what you get in whole vitamin pills or Hoffer's protocol with niacin/niacinamide.

In one place he recommended only 100 mg daily to reduce stress.
RP recommends 100 mg dose, twice a day to reduce Free Fatty Acids.
He also think it is a safe dose and one can take larger dose if needed for
particular reason. He mentioned that high dose of Nicotonic Acid and No flush niacin
causes upset stomach by increasing serotonin and prostaglandins.
He mentioned that high dose niacinamide does not cause diarrhea.
It would be nice to see a study comparing serotonin increase with
Niacinamide and Nicotonic acid.
That Chinese study using 100 mg Niacinamide study is speculating that
increased use of niacinamide in baby food is probably increasing Autism in
babies and Niacinamide fortified foods are connected to increase rate of
Schizophrenia. This totally goes against Hoffer curing Schizophrenia using
large dose niacin. It is odd that this study is making so many speculation
just based on one single dose. We do not know how serotonin increases at much
higher dose and if this relationship is linear or not.
In this study mean serum Serotonin rose from 15 ng/mL to 25 ng/mL with
100 mg loading after 12 hour fasting. There is about 67 percent increase in
serum serotonin and that is a huge jump. But the normal range is between
100 to 280 ng/mL. If we consider unit change it is only 10 unit and it does not
look like a big jump if 100-280 ng/mL is the reference range.
RP also mentioned that healthy lungs can detoxify excess serotonin.
I remember reading somewhere on the forum that large carbohydrate
meal increases serum serotonin level several folds.
It would be a good idea to get RP's response on this study.
I have been using 100 mg Niacinamide in the afternoon with
excellent health benefits.

 

[Peata]

So you're now experimenting with both niacinamide and thyroid at once? Please remind me, what thyroid do you use?

I only took raw thyroid one day and stopped. I decided to wait since I have a checkup dr. visit later this month. I want to get a number of things checked to see where I stand before I supplement with thyroid.