Can Megadosing Thiamine Lead to an Overactive Immune Response as well as Increased Urination?

[yerrag]

Been megadosing B1 lately and it hit me, would having a lot of thiamine lead to more ROS overproduction due to a surplus of NADPH oxidase being produced from thiamine enabling a lot of NADPH to be produced? Or does the body simply know enough is enough?

Secondly, since thiamine is also a carbonic anydrase inhibitor, what is to keep it from causing increased urination by its action of causing excretion of bicarbonate in the kidneys?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have taken 1 g or 2 g of thiamine hydrochloride daily at times, and never had any of these problems. Allithiamine lately at 200mg daily or benoftiamine at 600mg daily. No symptoms.

 

[JohnHafterson]

Been megadosing B1 lately and it hit me, would having a lot of thiamine lead to more ROS overproduction due to a surplus of NADPH oxidase being produced from thiamine enabling a lot of NADPH to be produced? Or does the body simply know enough is enough?

Secondly, since thiamine is also a carbonic anydrase inhibitor, what is to keep it from causing increased urination by its action of causing excretion of bicarbonate in the kidneys?

I'm at about 500-600mg a day between thiamine hcl and benfotiamine. I think about potential for side effects but haven't noticed anything.

I do think things like nutrient interactions eg over chelation of minerals due to it being sulfur based there are papers on its chelating effects. Also wonder about high isolated Bs potential impact on other Bs but haven't been able to discern.

 

[Motif]

Can somebody explain to me why some are megadosing some b-vitamins ?

Why is a b-complex not enough?

I was reading b2 helps some with eczema and want to give it a try , but it’s in the b complex I started anyway, so would I really have a benefit ?

 

[JohnHafterson]

Can somebody explain to me why some are megadosing some b-vitamins ?

Why is a b-complex not enough?

I was reading b2 helps some with eczema and want to give it a try , but it’s in the b complex I started anyway, so would I really have a benefit ?

I'm a Type 1 diabetic so the Thiamines have a good impact on endothelial function, glycation, inflammation, and diabetes complication pathways as do other Bs.

That's the only isolated I take, though I may start doing nicotinic acid B3 500mg a few times a week for it's vascular/circulatory/anti-inflammatory/NAD+ effects in the last week or so.

I take a high dose b complex for background.

 

[Motif]

I'm a Type 1 diabetic so the Thiamines have a good impact on endothelial function, Glycation, inflammation, and diabetes complications.

That's the only isolated I take, though I've started playing around with nicotinic acid B3 500mg a few times a week for it's vascular/circulatory/anti-inflammatory/NAD+ effects in the last week or so.

I take a high dose b complex for background.

And you really feel a difference or are you just guessing ?

 

[davidgraham]

Could be refeeding syndrome

Refeeding Syndrome - Hormones Matter

Refeeding syndrome is what happens when an individual's long-standing state of catabolic metabolism is too rapidly treated.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I can't handle thiamine at the start. I had to make sure sugar wasn't so high as in white sugar and also make sure my magnesium level was up otherwise thiamine if deficient can cause alot of issue when introduced. For me anyway

 

[JohnHafterson]

And you really feel a difference or are you just guessing ?

Thiamines well-documented in diabetes literature.

I have high serum CO2 despite being low carb high fat and mildly hypothyroid so carbonic anhydrase action of thiamine working imo.

I definitely feel the Benfotiamine in terms of peripheral blood flow, mental clarity, etc.

I'm pretty well-controlled A1c at about 5 average blood sugar 100-115.

I take a few things for complication coverage (insurance policy): B's, taurine, carnosine, Vit C, Vit E, magnesium, aspirin, etc.

 

[ursidae]

I’ve been eating oxalate rich foods for the past 2 months. Taking 1 100 mg TTFD pill brought on unpleasant oxalate overload symptoms such as joint pain, stiffness in the shoulders and neck, back pain and a sand in the neck feeling which I haven’t experienced in years.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Would someone that has high serum CO2 without taking B1 before help in anyway to take B1?
I seem to always have high CO2 when doing that blood test, according to the range of the lab.

30 mmol/L (30 mEq/L)
Their top range is 31 mmol/L

Recently I have starting adding low dose B1 HCL, 50mg to 100mg.

 

[nikotrope]

Thiamin used to make me feel good but not anymore. I feel like my blood sugar gets messed up by thiamin like it does if I eat too much carbs. And heat palpitations makes me think of a potassium deficiency.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Thiamin used to make me feel good but not anymore. I feel like my blood sugar gets messed up by thiamin like it does if I eat too much carbs. And heat palpitations makes me think of a potassium deficiency.

What doses have you been taking?

 

[nikotrope]

What doses have you been taking?

Recently even 100mg of thiamin HCl makes me feel bad.

 

[Dr. B]

Been megadosing B1 lately and it hit me, would having a lot of thiamine lead to more ROS overproduction due to a surplus of NADPH oxidase being produced from thiamine enabling a lot of NADPH to be produced? Or does the body simply know enough is enough?

Secondly, since thiamine is also a carbonic anydrase inhibitor, what is to keep it from causing increased urination by its action of causing excretion of bicarbonate in the kidneys?

it may be an angiotensin inhibitor too
good stuff mate

Thiamines well-documented in diabetes literature.

I have high serum CO2 despite being low carb high fat and mildly hypothyroid so carbonic anhydrase action of thiamine working imo.

I definitely feel the Benfotiamine in terms of peripheral blood flow, mental clarity, etc.

I'm pretty well-controlled A1c at about 5 average blood sugar 100-115.

I take a few things for complication coverage (insurance policy): B's, taurine, carnosine, Vit C, Vit E, magnesium, aspirin, etc.

i thought theres posts on here saying benfotiamine is toxic, interferes with normal thiamine function, etc, that it needs to be allithiamine, hcl, and one other form maybe the thiamine phosphate or something. mononitrate may also be troublesome due to it having nitrate.

have you tried thiamine HCL

"
Thiamine in foods can be degraded in a variety of ways. Sulfites, which are added to foods usually as a preservative,[39] will attack thiamine at the methylene bridge in the structure, cleaving the pyrimidine ring from the thiazole ring.[12] The rate of this reaction is increased under acidic conditions. Thiamine is degraded by thermolabile thiaminases (present in raw fish and shellfish).[11] Some thiaminases are produced by bacteria. Bacterial thiaminases are cell surface enzymes that must dissociate from the membrane before being activated; the dissociation can occur in ruminants under acidotic conditions. Rumen bacteria also reduce sulfate to sulfite, therefore high dietary intakes of sulfate can have thiamine-antagonistic activities.

Plant thiamine antagonists are heat-stable and occur as both the ortho- and para-hydroxyphenols. Some examples of these antagonists are caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, and tannic acid. These compounds interact with the thiamine to oxidize the thiazole ring, thus rendering it unable to be absorbed. Two flavonoids, quercetin and rutin, have also been implicated as thiamine antagonists."

 

[yerrag]

I have taken 1 g or 2 g of thiamine hydrochloride daily at times, and never had any of these problems. Allithiamine lately at 200mg daily or benoftiamine at 600mg daily. No symptoms.

Thanks.

I may not have to worry much then with my 375mg each of b1 and b3.

Still, I've stopped supplementing for 2 days now and while I see no change in my urination, I'm seeing less steep spO2 drops during sleep with my nightly monitoring of spO2.

Have been using my new o2ring for 3 weeks now, and I notice steep drops of spO2 to as low as 71. Not alarming when it is only transient, but still not to be taken for granted.

I could be wrong, but the steep drop could be due to a huge demand for O2 needed for the respiratory burst of phagocytosis. That the word 'burst' is used speaks to huge sudden demand for oxygen, among other substrates.

 

[yerrag]

I'm at about 500-600mg a day between thiamine hcl and benfotiamine. I think about potential for side effects but haven't noticed anything.

I do think things like nutrient interactions eg over chelation of minerals due to it being sulfur based there are papers on its chelating effects. Also wonder about high isolated Bs potential impact on other Bs but haven't been able to discern.

It's really hard for me to "feel" effects but there are times I did but it's not something I can immediately feel, and when I did, I find out 3 months later one time, and at another time 2 years later. And this is with me trying to find answers to questions and running empty and one day I would read something that would allow me to connect the dots. And then I would still ask what if there are many untoward effects from what I take that I fail to observe.

 

[yerrag]

Would someone that has high serum CO2 without taking B1 before help in anyway to take B1?
I seem to always have high CO2 when doing that blood test, according to the range of the lab.

30 mmol/L (30 mEq/L)
Their top range is 31 mmol/L

Recently I have starting adding low dose B1 HCL, 50mg to 100mg.

That value isn't so bad, and that means high bicarbonate in the blood. But as I understand it, thiamine also acts as a carbonic anydrase inhibitor, and it could lower bicarbonate as it causes bicarbonate to be excreted in urine by the kidneys, instead of allowing CA to convert it into CO2 and water in the tissues, from where it could become bicarb or carbonic acid, depending on acid-bas balance requirements.

 

[Gustav3Y]

That value isn't so bad, and that means high bicarbonate in the blood. But as I understand it, thiamine also acts as a carbonic anydrase inhibitor, and it could lower bicarbonate as it causes bicarbonate to be excreted in urine by the kidneys, instead of allowing CA to convert it into CO2 and water in the tissues, from where it could become bicarb or carbonic acid, depending on acid-bas balance requirements.

Yes, high bicarbonate in blood. Well than it means B1 might increase it or decrease it as far as I understand from you.
I am anything but healthy yet my bicarbonate is always high and as far as I understand high bicarbonate is what most strive to in order for better health.

 

[yerrag]

Yes, high bicarbonate in blood. Well than it means B1 might increase it or decrease it as far as I understand from you.
I am anything but healthy yet my bicarbonate is always high and as far as I understand high bicarbonate is what most strive to in order for better health.

It is much more nuanced than that. I'll probably need to get some ideas to set well on my mind as I experiment on myself before I share them.

But looking at one value, in this case serum bicarbonate, is not a way to get a good idea of your health. You have to consider it in relation to other markers as health is a balancing of competing and opposing forces, if you will.

In fact, I may not even need to look at serum bicarb as a marker. I may just in the comfort of home, without even going out, be able to test my general state of health simply by using 3 markers that are easily measured at home.

But one has to believe in the terrain idea of health, as espoused by Beauchamp, and believing in that, one looks first at acid-base balance in the body.

Many here in the forum wrongly look at one marker- urine pH - to determine their acid-base balance. The two other markers - breath rate, and saliva pH, are just as important.

Since this idea is not written nor espoused by our journals and by the "evidence-based" medical establishment, and since it is also far more cost-effective, it will not gain acceptance, perhaps even in RPF.

As far as thiamine goes, you have to ask yourself why excreting bicarbonates in urine doesn't change your bicarbonate stores, much less your CO2 stores.

 

[Makrosky]

Anyone notices lowered/blunt emotions from B1? Kind of like with cypro. I want to believe it is because it lowers stress but still... not a funny mood. Just plain.