Can Elevated Progesterone Aggrevate Or Cause Varicose Veins?

Infarouge

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Some studies and Varicose specialists suggest that varicose veins can be caused by elevated progesterone, estrogen and even testosterone:

Elevated sex steroid hormones in great saphenous veins in men

Influence of estrogens and progesterone on the venous system of the lower limbs in women.


Elevated Serum Estradiol/Testosterone Ratio in Men With Primary Varicose Veins Compared With a Healthy Control Group

Progesterone and Varicose Veins

Can anyone comment on these findings? I can see why a Varicose treatment center wouldn't promote a cheap alternative solution but the studies seem somewhat plausible.
 
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Kingpinguin

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Some studies and Varicose specialists suggest that varicose veins can be caused by elevated progesterone, estrogen and even testosterone:

Elevated sex steroid hormones in great saphenous veins in men

Influence of estrogens and progesterone on the venous system of the lower limbs in women.


Elevated Serum Estradiol/Testosterone Ratio in Men With Primary Varicose Veins Compared With a Healthy Control Group

Progesterone and Varicose Veins

Can anyone comment on these findings? I can see why a Varicose treatment center wouldn't promote a cheap alternative solution but the studies seem somewhat plausible.

like some studies point out im inclined to believe that high estrogen has an effect since we know how it ages veins and skin. Progesterone would do the opposite since it works as an estrogen antagonist. Testosterone tho is what makes estrogen so excess T usually equalls excess estrogen in some cases. Specially if you have elevated aromatase production like being unhealthy and overweight.
 
OP
Infarouge

Infarouge

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Yes I agree the studies are difficult to interpret as they doesn't specifically study progesterone and try to blanket it together with other hormones, which is poor science. In any case I think an aromotase inhibitor such as DIM and Calcium-D-Glucoronoate should help.

I think there is a strong need for progesterone to be studied independently for varicose and underlying Chronic Arterial Insufficiency disease.
 

YamnayaMommy

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I really want some expert opinion on this. My varicose vein developed 12 months postpartum after first pregnancy, and then got worse with subsequent pregnancies.

The appearance of vein was worst during second and third pregnancies, presumably because blood volume increase but maybe also because elevated hormones.

Now at 12 months postpartum—still lactating— it’s visible but not as bad.

I tried to high dose progesterone last month to see if it would go away. Subsequently, I either got the flu or the high dose progesterone caused horrible flu like symptoms. Not sure which but am scared to dose progesterone again.
 

Gypsumking

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Bump. Ive been taking progesterone as a male and have noticed some small varicose veins appearing. Seems some of those studies may have some plausability to them
 

JKX

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Some studies and Varicose specialists suggest that varicose veins can be caused by elevated progesterone, estrogen and even testosterone:

Elevated sex steroid hormones in great saphenous veins in men
Influence of estrogens and progesterone on the venous system of the lower limbs in women.

Elevated Serum Estradiol/Testosterone Ratio in Men With Primary Varicose Veins Compared With a Healthy Control Group

Progesterone and Varicose Veins

Can anyone comment on these findings? I can see why a Varicose treatment center wouldn't promote a cheap alternative solution but the studies seem somewhat plausible.
Perhaps read articles a little more thoroughly before posting under such an aggrivative thread title?
The first study doesn't mention prog. The second relates to birth control pills, the third doesn't mention prog and the last is a terribly researched article which makes a lot of claims with little to no substantiation.
 

Cooper

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I take 50mg Prog injections daily and nah. In my case it even cleared up my consistent internal hemorroids. Im not sure how though. My veins on testiscles seem not changed if not got better.
 

Nemo

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Nope, it's estrogen that causes varicose. Take progesterone to relieve the problem. Progesterone with DHEA especially helps.

Ray Peat: "Veins and capillaries are highly sensitive to estrogen, and women are more likely than men to have varicose veins, spider veins, leaky capillaries, and other vascular problems besides rosacea."

Estrogen increases blood viscosity and that contributes to varicose veins (as well as heart arryhthmias and heart failure).

More Ray: “The pooling of blood in veins, a basic feature of shock, has recently become another of estrogen’s 'protective' features for the circulatory system–the reasoning seems to be that reduced circulation of blood makes life easier for the circulatory system. The relevant contexts, though, are the contribution this makes to the formation of blood clots, and the quality of oxygenation of all tissues.”

“An excess of estrogen is associated with varicose veins in men, as well as women. (Raj, 2006; Ciarudullo, et al., 2000; Kendler, et al., 2009; Asciutto, et al., 2010; Raffeto, et al., 2010)”

More studies showing estrogen's at fault:

 

Cooper

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Nope, it's estrogen that causes varicose. Take progesterone to relieve the problem. Progesterone with DHEA especially helps.

Ray Peat: "Veins and capillaries are highly sensitive to estrogen, and women are more likely than men to have varicose veins, spider veins, leaky capillaries, and other vascular problems besides rosacea."

Estrogen increases blood viscosity and that contributes to varicose veins (as well as heart arrhthmias and heart failure).

More Ray: “The pooling of blood in veins, a basic feature of shock, has recently become another of estrogen’s 'protective' features for the circulatory system–the reasoning seems to be that reduced circulation of blood makes life easier for the circulatory system. The relevant contexts, though, are the contribution this makes to the formation of blood clots, and the quality of oxygenation of all tissues.”

“An excess of estrogen is associated with varicose veins in men, as well as women. (Raj, 2006; Ciarudullo, et al., 2000; Kendler, et al., 2009; Asciutto, et al., 2010; Raffeto, et al., 2010)”

More studies showing estrogen's at fault:
Good post! Do you think varicose veins on testicles etc. can be reverseble on their own without the surgery? If the cause is bloodflow related etc.?
 

Nemo

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Good post! Do you think varicose veins on testicles etc. can be reverseble on their own without the surgery? If the cause is bloodflow related etc.?

I certainly do.

I'd check out Idealabs' Cortinon product, great for reducing both cortisol and estrogen. Or you can do the same thing if you can get decent progesterone and DHEA from other sources.

I use Cortinon for my husband's heart arrythmia. Same issue: blood viscosity, and it fixed it right up.

You might start here on dosing:


So you don't want to overdo daily DHEA or even DHEA by dose. Be sure to read that to the end even though it's about reversing aging/reviving the thymus with DHEA and progesterone.

Haidut also posted something here in the forums about a body builder friend using up to 12 mg of progesterone with 1 mg DHEA (something like that) to boost testosterone. He was taking some crazy high number of mg of progesterone with no feminizing effects. It was a good discussion. If no one else finds it first, I'll find it tomorrow.

Ray has said about 100 times not to apply hormones directly to the testicles because what's going on in there is so complex, he doesn't want you to mess it up. But you're essentially trying to reduce blood viscosity by reducing estrogen, so no need to apply it there. It's a systemic issue.
 

Nemo

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@Cooper, here's the Haidut post:


Just to show you how good progesterone can be for men, even at high doses, if used properly with DHEA.
 

artist

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In my experience anything that blocks estrogen too aggressively causes vein issues to worsen for me (like a new vein appears and doesn’t go away). The two strongest estrogen blockers I can think of which have done this are molybdenum and vitamin A. I think estrogen may be important in distributing/using copper and this might be related. I’ve done experiments with progesterone many years ago and it was super helpful for me at one point, but after I started having the vulnerability with my veins progesterone didn’t help and seemed to make it a bit worse. I find magnesium sulfate, serrapeptase and copper (perhaps all in combination) to be the most promising for helping veins. I also think a lot of different things can cause and relieve vein issues depending on what the individual person is deficient in etc. This is why you see some reviews for copper supplements where a person magically had their spider or varicose veins improve or disappear and others had no effect. Same with vitamin K, vitamin c etc. if you have a bad estrogen imbalance where you’re very estrogen dominant, the excess vasodilation could be a problem that aggravates the veins but I’m not sure it’s what weakening them in the first place. Same thing with excess histamine. Just because a vein looks better or worse in a given moment doesn’t mean the walls have actually become stronger or weaker, it’s just how much vasodilation is going on. Calcium is sometimes thought to improve veins and while I can’t say for sure that it doesn’t, its strong vasoconstricting effect is likely contributing to this perception.
 

YamnayaMommy

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In my experience anything that blocks estrogen too aggressively causes vein issues to worsen for me (like a new vein appears and doesn’t go away). The two strongest estrogen blockers I can think of which have done this are molybdenum and vitamin A. I think estrogen may be important in distributing/using copper and this might be related. I’ve done experiments with progesterone many years ago and it was super helpful for me at one point, but after I started having the vulnerability with my veins progesterone didn’t help and seemed to make it a bit worse. I find magnesium sulfate, serrapeptase and copper (perhaps all in combination) to be the most promising for helping veins. I also think a lot of different things can cause and relieve vein issues depending on what the individual person is deficient in etc. This is why you see some reviews for copper supplements where a person magically had their spider or varicose veins improve or disappear and others had no effect. Same with vitamin K, vitamin c etc. if you have a bad estrogen imbalance where you’re very estrogen dominant, the excess vasodilation could be a problem that aggravates the veins but I’m not sure it’s what weakening them in the first place. Same thing with excess histamine. Just because a vein looks better or worse in a given moment doesn’t mean the walls have actually become stronger or weaker, it’s just how much vasodilation is going on. Calcium is sometimes thought to improve veins and while I can’t say for sure that it doesn’t, its strong vasoconstricting effect is likely contributing to this perception.
Thank you for this post.

Can you describe how you used serrapeptase to improve your vein health?

I’ve wanted to try it but always chicken out.

Progest e has done nothing for my veins. Years of topical application.

I had my right saphenous vein glued shut over a year ago. Above the knee only. My leg looks better but it still fatigues too soon when standing.

I am considering having the varicose vein below the knee ablated. The vein doc said glue treatment wouldn’t work there because the vein is too tortuous.
 

L_C

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Some studies and Varicose specialists suggest that varicose veins can be caused by elevated progesterone, estrogen and even testosterone:

Elevated sex steroid hormones in great saphenous veins in men
Influence of estrogens and progesterone on the venous system of the lower limbs in women.

Elevated Serum Estradiol/Testosterone Ratio in Men With Primary Varicose Veins Compared With a Healthy Control Group

Progesterone and Varicose Veins

Can anyone comment on these findings? I can see why a Varicose treatment center wouldn't promote a cheap alternative solution but the studies seem somewhat plausible.
Progesterone pulls estrogen out of your tissues and dumps it into the bloodstream. Then kidneys and liver process it. Perhaps, what you are seeing is excess estrogen as progesterone works through your tissues to withdraw estrogen. Hence more estrogen in blood. It will take some time to detox from extra estrogen.
 

artist

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Thank you for this post.

Can you describe how you used serrapeptase to improve your vein health?

I’ve wanted to try it but always chicken out.

Progest e has done nothing for my veins. Years of topical application.

I had my right saphenous vein glued shut over a year ago. Above the knee only. My leg looks better but it still fatigues too soon when standing.

I am considering having the varicose vein below the knee ablated. The vein doc said glue treatment wouldn’t work there because the vein is too tortuous.
My thinking is that serrapeptase dissolves scar tissue and calcification and that this is how it can help damaged veins, by encouraging remodeling. It also helps blood flow and general cardiovascular health so it could be as simple as that. The way to use it is to take it on an empty stomach (easiest first thing in the morning). If you decide to use it I'd start with a low dose and make sure you use an enteric coated one. I haven't run into any issues with it but I know it bothers some people's stomachs. I personally feel that increasing copper and estrogen together has been the most helpful to my veins (might be particular to my situation) but serrapeptase has helped as well. It especially has been noticable in improving stretch marks I had.
 

sunny

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@Cooper, here's the Haidut post:


Just to show you how good progesterone can be for men, even at high doses, if used properly with DHEA.
 

A-Tim

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My thinking is that serrapeptase dissolves scar tissue and calcification and that this is how it can help damaged veins, by encouraging remodeling. It also helps blood flow and general cardiovascular health so it could be as simple as that. The way to use it is to take it on an empty stomach (easiest first thing in the morning). If you decide to use it I'd start with a low dose and make sure you use an enteric coated one. I haven't run into any issues with it but I know it bothers some people's stomachs. I personally feel that increasing copper and estrogen together has been the most helpful to my veins (might be particular to my situation) but serrapeptase has helped as well. It especially has been noticable in improving stretch marks I had.
What dose do you take? Do you have a brand you recommend? Thanks.
 

Advocate2021

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i dont see how progesterone could cause varicose veins. thats definitely an estrogen thing. been guzzling progest e for 25 years and no varicose veins, no cellulite and tight youthful skin. the stuff is ambrosia for me lol.
 

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