Calcium Deficiency Is Real, But Not Recognized On A Blood Test

[Lokzo]

So, after many years (4) of dropping all dairy from my diet, I decided to look into the RDI for calcium.

I quickly began to realize that the RDI was 1000mg for a Adult, Male. I am sure this would be higher for someone who exercises very intensely (me).

Doing some basic maths I noticed that I would never be getting anywhere near this amount on a daily basis.

There appears to be not many whole-food based calcium rich foods, apart from Sardines, Soy (Would never ingest this shi*), and a few others.

So I started trialing out a calcium powder at approx. 1500mg daily.

Noticeable effects (Within 5 days):
-Insanely less mental chatter
-Strong focus/ANTI-ADHD properties
-Stronger libido
-Increased vascularity
-Better sleep
-CALMNESS (You would think the opposite)


Now clearly I have had blood tests to prove that I am indeed NOT deficient in calcium, since I understand that the body can easily maintain homeostasis via pulling calcium from the bones.

How do you respond to calcium?
How many mg do you aim for per day?

 

[mujuro]

Which form do you use? Is that 1500mg elemental calcium?

 

[Lokzo]

Which form do you use? Is that 1500mg elemental calcium?

See attachment. :)

 

[vulture]

Any experiences like this on eggshells?

 

[Lokzo]

Any experiences like this on eggshells?

I am yet to trial this. But it does interest me. I just need to make sure the egg shell is extremely clean, as I worry about the shi* on the oustide...

How many mg calcium per egg shell? (There would be other factors in the egg shell that would improve absorption, I am aware of this)

 

[Ella]

Yeap, its for real. Glad you found out in time. You don't want too little or too much. Blood tests don't give the true picture. You need to always balance the calcium with phosphate, again blood does not reveal the true picture. Hair and urine better. Amazing how calmer, the body feels once the calcium is just right. Don't know how those non-dairy eaters manage to get it right, unless they're drinking loads of almond milk and soy.

 

[Waremu]

I have noticed similar things. I've been 'Peating' since 2012 and have had my blood work done routinely since 2014. Like many who 'Peat' have noted in the past, I have noticed that consistently when my calcium intake drops below 2000mg per day, I start having sleep issues. The effect is almost immediate. Also, when I am low calcium, my PTH always is higher or in the higher range on my blood tests. I also have noticed that calcium to phosphate ratios is something to not overlook and I do believe it is very important to combating the general or broadly acting stress effect. I believe that high PTH was one of the main contributors to my hypothyroid state. My overall health is consistently better whenever I keep my calcium high and calcium to phosphate at a optimal range/ratio. Stress tolerance is much higher as well. Consistently low calcium intake is probably one of the main things that ruined my health. Not enough sun or Vitamin D probably also were factors, but even then, things didn't really turn around until I kept my calcium up.

 

[brix]

I have high blood calcium and low hair calcium. Very low. I feel good on calcium carbonate supps (600mg a day)

 

[Lokzo]

Yeap, its for real. Glad you found out in time. You don't want too little or too much. Blood tests don't give the true picture. You need to always balance the calcium with phosphate, again blood does not reveal the true picture. Hair and urine better. Amazing how calmer, the body feels once the calcium is just right. Don't know how those non-dairy eaters manage to get it right, unless they're drinking loads of almond milk and soy.

With the phosphate intake, given someone who eats plenty of meat/chicken/poultry do you think that phosphate is covered by that alone?

 

[Lokzo]

I have noticed similar things. I've been 'Peating' since 2012 and have had my blood work done routinely since 2014. Like many who 'Peat' have noted in the past, I have noticed that consistently when my calcium intake drops below 2000mg per day, I start having sleep issues. The effect is almost immediate. Also, when I am low calcium, my PTH always is higher or in the higher range on my blood tests. I also have noticed that calcium to phosphate ratios is something to not overlook and I do believe it is very important to combating the general or broadly acting stress effect. I believe that high PTH was one of the main contributors to my hypothyroid state. My overall health is consistently better whenever I keep my calcium high and calcium to phosphate at a optimal range/ratio. Stress tolerance is much higher as well. Consistently low calcium intake is probably one of the main things that ruined my health. Not enough sun or Vitamin D probably also were factors, but even then, things didn't really turn around until I kept my calcium up.

It's quite surprising how strongly promoted magnesium is for counteracting stress, and I was always under the impression that calcium was stimulatory/excitatory.

Where do you get your calcium intake from? :)

 

[Lokzo]

I have high blood calcium and low hair calcium. Very low. I feel good on calcium carbonate supps (600mg a day)

So it appears calcium might be Anti-Estrogenic:
"The mean estradiol level in sera of rats fed the Ca-deficient diet was significantly increased to 4.3 times that in the regular diet group. However, the increased estradiol concentration was reduced after the administration of menatetrenone or elcatonin. The estrone concentrations in sera of menatetrenone- or elcatonin-treated rats fed the Ca-deficient diet decreased to a level lower than that of animals fed the regular diet. Testicular aromatase cytochrome P450 (P450(arom); estrogen synthetase) activity was significantly increased by 2.4-fold in the Ca-deficient diet group compared to that in the regular diet group, and the aromatase mRNA level was also significantly increased 1.45-fold. Testicular aromatase activity was strongly correlated with aromatase mRNA level and serum estradiol level. These data suggest that the change in testicular aromatase expression might be, in part, a compensatory mechanism for the bone mineral deficiency induced by the Ca-deficient diet in aged male rats."
A calcium-deficient diet caused decreased bone mineral density and secondary elevation of estrogen in aged male rats-effect of menatetrenone and el... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Waremu]

It's quite surprising how strongly promoted magnesium is for counteracting stress, and I was always under the impression that calcium was stimulatory/excitatory.

Where do you get your calcium intake from? :)

I agree. Magnesium is also important to me, but I don't agree with some who have stated that the magnesium to calcium ratio should be 1:1 because it throws off an optimal calcium to phosphate ratio (almost impossible to have both and moderate to high protein at the same time), and I think they have underestimated the rich calcium content of soft bones in fish and other animal meat that tribes around the world that even didn't drink much milk ate regularly, so even prior to agriculture I don't believe calcium intake was all that low to the 1:1 ratio like some have stated. Fish and meat soft bones and vegetable broth/stews can provide quite a bit of calcium. Many tribes would use massive pots to slow boil animal parts and greens/vegetables in, easily getting some quality calcium. Also, many small fish that were plentiful were quite high in calcium that is also well absorbed (sardines, salmon, for example). Also, human breast milk doesn't have a 1:1 calcium to magnesium ratio, but rather, around a 10:1 ratio (similar to cows milk). So I think it's safe sticking to a range of a 3:1-10:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium (the lower the better).

I personally get most of my calcium from raw A2 dairy of cow and goat. Sometimes from yogurt, but usually just the milk. I also often make green veggie broths when I can, but it's mostly from raw milk.

 

[Lokzo]

I agree. Magnesium is also important to me, but I don't agree with some who have stated that the magnesium to calcium ratio should be 1:1 because it throws off an optimal calcium to phosphate ratio (almost impossible to have both and moderate to high protein at the same time), and I think they have underestimated the rich calcium content of soft bones in fish and other animal meat that tribes around the world that even didn't drink much milk ate regularly, so even prior to agriculture I don't believe calcium intake was all that low to the 1:1 ratio like some have stated. Fish and meat soft bones and vegetable broth/stews can provide quite a bit of calcium. Many tribes would use massive pots to slow boil animal parts and greens/vegetables in, easily getting some quality calcium. Also, many small fish that were plentiful were quite high in calcium that is also well absorbed (sardines, salmon, for example). Also, human breast milk doesn't have a 1:1 calcium to magnesium ratio, but rather, around a 10:1 ratio (similar to cows milk). So I think it's safe sticking to a range of a 4:1-10:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium (the lower the better).

I personally get most of my calcium from raw A2 dairy of cow and goat. Sometimes from yogurt, but usually just the milk. I also often make green veggie broths when I can, but it's mostly from raw milk.

I love the context behind your research. Thanks for sharing!

Ever tried the egg shell powder?

 

[Ella]

With the phosphate intake, given someone who eats plenty of meat/chicken/poultry do you think that phosphate is covered by that alone?

The fact you eat foods high in phosphorus and all animals meats are high in phosphorus means you need to increase your calcium intake to balance the phosphorus in these foods. Milk and dairy are also high in phosphorus but the high calcium in them balances the phosphorus. Fruit and sugar can help to bring down phosphate if it is too high.

Peat mentions a ratio of 2:1 Ca/P but if you eat fruits you can go higher in the P something like 2:4 Ca/P.

Eating lots of fruit and drinking OJ protects. I actually decreased my phosphorus too low due to eating loads of fruit, OJ, sugar and milk. I cut my red meat consumption to once a week. I use to be a big beef eater and my phosphorus was sky high and too much calcium floating around in the system. So it was a shock to see phosphorus drop and calcium optimised following a Peaty regime.

You need to be sure fruit is not being grown with super phosphate. Choosing organic and biodynamic or home grown are your best sources.

Have you listen to Danny Roddy's current interview with Ray? They discuss the importance of calcium - very timely, topic.

Many pearls in this interview. Of special note is that calcium and vitamin D and a whole lot of other factors need to be in place before supplementing with progesterone, pregnenolone and thyroid.

The influence of calcium on hypertension. Ray is the only one I have heard mention that Roosevelt died due to being poisoned and not heart disease. The following is the official story.

Electrocardiography (ECG) gave evidence of left ventricular (LV) hypertrophy, and urinalysis showed proteinuria. FDR was manifesting several cardiovascular consequences of untreated hypertension; LV hypertrophy, congestive heart failure (CHF), andrenal insufficiency.

Bruenn initiated digitalis therapy, a low-salt diet, a reduction in FDR's substantial alcohol and cigarette use, and bed rest. Within a week, FDR no longer evidenced CHF. In August 1944, he had chest pain while giving a campaign speech on a naval ship. In the captain's quarters, he complained of severe, crushing pain for 15 minutes. ECG and white blood cell count showed that he was not having a myocardial infarction (MI) but angina,another possible hypertensive complication. In radio addresses at the time of the Yalta Conference, FDR was audibly wheezing and unable to complete sentences. His blood pressure at the time approached 250/150mm Hg. Historians believe Stalin took advantage of a debilitated president, actions that determined the fate of eastern Europe.

 

[Braveheart]

Have been studying calcium and magnesium recently because I'm thinking too high calcium can lead to hardening of arteries?...and I find the EU's recommendation for calcium is 800 mg, the WHO 400-500mg, the UK 700 etc...who jacked up our US Rda?...the dairy industry? Anyway, there is a lot of interesting info on Calcium...I have lowered my intake by cutting back on dairy and have noticed no adverse effects, and stress less over getting that Mag/Cal ratio right...my ratio is easily 1/1 now...Mag more important to me than Cal anyway....following is a random jumble of notes I gleaned from my reading.....starting point for further research.

"According to the Physician’s Committee for Responsible Medicine, “increases in dairy or total dietary calcium intake (above 400 to 500 mg per day) are not correlated with – or a predictor of – bone mineral density or fracture rate in children or young adults.” That would make ***400-500 of both calcium and magnesium the target for many people. Dr. Carolyn Dean, author of The Magnesium Miracle, claims 6-8mg per kilogram of body weight. .....480 TO 640mg...(400 to 700 mine)

It is my stance that a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium is most likely optimal, with higher levels of magnesium possibly being even better.

400-600mg of calcium and magnesium
35-50 ng/ml of vitamin D (Sun and 500-5000IU depending on your level)
K2 from the diet or supplementation
Boron and silica from mineral water and diet
keep vitamin D levels in the healthy range with 2,000-4,000IU.
MAG...Amount: 6-8 mg per kilogram of body weight (weight divided by 2.2, then take that number and multiply it by 6-8)
For vitamin D, the amount ranges from 2,000IU to 5,000 IU depending on your vitamin D metabolism if you are not getting enough sun. The vitamin D receptor requires adequate A, magnesium, calcium, K2, boron and zinc.

****Typically, less than half of calcium intake is absorbed in the gut(2), the rest either being excreted or potentially forming kidney stones or being transported to soft tissues where it can harden (calcify).

Adequate levels of magnesium are essential for the absorption and metabolism of calcium and vitamin D.

****There is a growing amount of scientific evidence pointing to high calcium – low magnesium intake leading to calcification, or hardening, of arteries (atherosclerosis—the number one cause of death in the U.S.), osteoporosis and osteoporotic bone fractures(3, 4).

Recommendations for calcium intake vary greatly. In the U.S., adults are told to take 1,000 mg per day and women over 50 are told to take up to 1,500 mg. In the United Kingdom, the RDA is 700 mg daily, while the World Health Organization recommends only 400-500 mg.

Often supplementation is taken without consideration for the amount of calcium in the diet both from food sources and water. Many people, especially those consuming dairy products, have high-calcium diets. This can lead to a greater amount of unabsorbed calcium.

Dr. Dean recommends monitoring calcium intake, supplementing with vitamin D, getting the minimum daily requirement of magnesium, "and going for a 1:2 or at the very least a 1:1 calcium-magnesium balance.".... I say, better way of saying this...get even amts of mag/cal or much better, twice the amt of mag to cal.

 

[Dotdash]

Adele Davis wrote quite a lot about the calming effect of calcium. It used to be called the "lullaby pill" when taken at night to aid sleep. Also during childbirth it was utilized to reduce pain. It's value beyond bone health is probably underestimated.

 

[Waremu]

Have been studying calcium and magnesium recently because I'm thinking too high calcium can lead to hardening of arteries?...and I find the EU's recommendation for calcium is 800 mg, the WHO 400-500mg, the UK 700 etc...who jacked up our US Rda?...the dairy industry? Anyway, there is a lot of interesting info on Calcium...I have lowered my intake by cutting back on dairy and have noticed no adverse effects, and stress less over getting that Mag/Cal ratio right...my ratio is easily 1/1 now...Mag more important to me than Cal anyway....following is a random jumble of notes I gleaned from my reading.....starting point for further research.

"According to the Physician’s Committee for Responsible Medicine, “increases in dairy or total dietary calcium intake (above 400 to 500 mg per day) are not correlated with – or a predictor of – bone mineral density or fracture rate in children or young adults.” That would make ***400-500 of both calcium and magnesium the target for many people. Dr. Carolyn Dean, author of The Magnesium Miracle, claims 6-8mg per kilogram of body weight. .....480 TO 640mg...(400 to 700 mine)

It is my stance that a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium is most likely optimal, with higher levels of magnesium possibly being even better.

400-600mg of calcium and magnesium
35-50 ng/ml of vitamin D (Sun and 500-5000IU depending on your level)
K2 from the diet or supplementation
Boron and silica from mineral water and diet
keep vitamin D levels in the healthy range with 2,000-4,000IU.
MAG...Amount: 6-8 mg per kilogram of body weight (weight divided by 2.2, then take that number and multiply it by 6-8)
For vitamin D, the amount ranges from 2,000IU to 5,000 IU depending on your vitamin D metabolism if you are not getting enough sun. The vitamin D receptor requires adequate A, magnesium, calcium, K2, boron and zinc.

****Typically, less than half of calcium intake is absorbed in the gut(2), the rest either being excreted or potentially forming kidney stones or being transported to soft tissues where it can harden (calcify).

Adequate levels of magnesium are essential for the absorption and metabolism of calcium and vitamin D.

****There is a growing amount of scientific evidence pointing to high calcium – low magnesium intake leading to calcification, or hardening, of arteries (atherosclerosis—the number one cause of death in the U.S.), osteoporosis and osteoporotic bone fractures(3, 4).

Recommendations for calcium intake vary greatly. In the U.S., adults are told to take 1,000 mg per day and women over 50 are told to take up to 1,500 mg. In the United Kingdom, the RDA is 700 mg daily, while the World Health Organization recommends only 400-500 mg.

Often supplementation is taken without consideration for the amount of calcium in the diet both from food sources and water. Many people, especially those consuming dairy products, have high-calcium diets. This can lead to a greater amount of unabsorbed calcium.

Dr. Dean recommends monitoring calcium intake, supplementing with vitamin D, getting the minimum daily requirement of magnesium, "and going for a 1:2 or at the very least a 1:1 calcium-magnesium balance.".... I say, better way of saying this...get even amts of mag/cal or much better, twice the amt of mag to cal.

I find that many of the people who advocate a 1:1 magnesium to calcium ratio also often take the view that estrogen is good for the bones, which worries me. I have seen the arguments laid out on the negative effects of calcium, but the 'Peatarian' argument has typically been that PTH and estrogen and lack of Vitamin K that play a bigger role when it comes to it's negative effects on arteries, etc., and that these things can be negated by adequate Vitamin K, D, A, magnesium, and keeping estrogen and PTH low. I and others have seen this consistently on blood work as well. If my calcium drops low my Prolactin and PTH goes up. And it usually goes up if I eat under 1500-2000mg of calcium. And my sleep suffers. Prolactin and PTH are probably two of the most important markers, next to estrogen and serotonin. I do think there is probably a limit on calcium and that a lower end of the calcium and magnesium ratio is probably best, but from what I have seen, 1:1 doesn't seem very realistic because in most cases, to achieve that, you have to eat lower protein and throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio. 3:1 and 2:1 is more realistic and I think safe. With enough coffee and orange juice one can easily get a 2:1 calcium to magnesium ratio while keeping the calcium to phosphorus ratio above 1:1, and protein moderate. But I just find it hard to believe that 1:1 is natural when our first food, milk, has a 10:1 ratio. Of course, we aren't growing babes in our adult life, but the demands of maintenance and regeneration as we get older are quite demanding to our bones and tissue as well and I think can easily be underestimated. For example, older people risk losing more LBM as they get older, etc.

 

[Arrade]

I find that many of the people who advocate a 1:1 magnesium to calcium ratio also often take the view that estrogen is good for the bones, which worries me. I have seen the arguments laid out on the negative effects of calcium, but the 'Peatarian' argument has typically been that PTH and estrogen and lack of Vitamin K that play a bigger role when it comes to it's negative effects on arteries, etc., and that these things can be negated by adequate Vitamin K, D, A, magnesium, and keeping estrogen and PTH low. I and others have seen this consistently on blood work as well. If my calcium drops low my Prolactin and PTH goes up. And it usually goes up if I eat under 1500-2000mg of calcium. And my sleep suffers. Prolactin and PTH are probably two of the most important markers, next to estrogen and serotonin. I do think there is probably a limit on calcium and that a lower end of the calcium and magnesium ratio is probably best, but from what I have seen, 1:1 doesn't seem very realistic because in most cases, to achieve that, you have to eat lower protein and throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio. 3:1 and 2:1 is more realistic and I think safe. With enough coffee and orange juice one can easily get a 2:1 calcium to magnesium ratio while keeping the calcium to phosphorus ratio above 1:1, and protein moderate.

I imagine too high estrogen is bad for bone metabolism, not a valid argument that estrogen in the system is bad

 

[Waremu]

I love the context behind your research. Thanks for sharing!

Ever tried the egg shell powder?

Thanks. Yes, I have tried eggshell powder. Usually works best with be when consumed with a meal and not an empty stomach. Has to be ultra fine however.

 

[Waremu]

I imagine too high estrogen is bad for bone metabolism, not a valid argument that estrogen in the system is bad

Of course everything has to be in context. No one said anything about 'no estrogen in a system', (as if that would even be possible), but these hormones are necessary as more of an 'emergency fight or flight' response, from the 'Peatarian' perspective and just because we make them doesn't mean it's favorable to advocate their pathological utility with relation to overall health, or what is considered the 'ideal.'