Calcium Carbonate

[Lilly]

Is it possible to disolve pure calcium carbonate powder so that it can be used topically?
I just can't digest any form of calcium supplement without bad reactions, and sometimes I need a little bit extra calcium since my main sources are full fat organic milk and few cheeses,which cannot be consumed in very large amounts if i want to keep my weight in check.
Thanks!

 

[Lee Simeon]

Why not skim milk?

 

[Lilly]

Why not skim milk?

I get bloated from every single low fat kind I have tried so far.

 

[x-ray peat]

what kind of bad reactions? constipation? you could take magnesium carbonate as well to balance it. Just take at different times

 

[Vinero]

I can't take calcium carbonate either.
It upsets my intestines every time I take it.
Which is too bad because I experience great mental benefits from it.

 

[cyclops]

Time to grind those eggshells!

 

[Lilly]

Time to grind those eggshells!

Egg shell calcium was the first thing I have tried years ago and couldnt handle it very well. And I react the same to Ca carbonate now, getting a lot of gurgling noise from my intestines and a general feeling of discomfort. My digestion perceives it as a toxin I guess. Last time I took Ca carbonate powder for few days I got a stomach flu, which made me think if it was in fact a flu or a high serotonin syndrome which happened after 3 days of Ca supplementation. I guess it was the latter.

 

[Amazoniac]

And I will throw it back out:

'The earliest deposition of crystals on implanted material is calcium carbonate. (J. Vuola, et al, 1996.) In newly formed bone, the phosphate content is low, and increases with maturity. While mature bone has an apatite-like ratio of calcium and phosphate, newly calcified bone is very deficient in phosphate (according to Dallemagne, the initial calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1.29, and it increases to 2.20.) (G. Bourne, 1972; Dallemagne.)' ―The Emporer​

The first time I had read this it had made no sense to me. After reading it ten more times, it still doesn't make sense to me. Judging by the Dallemagne article, I think he had meant to say this:

'The earliest deposition of crystals on implanted material is calcium carbonate. (J. Vuola, et al, 1996.) In newly formed bone, the phosphate content is low, and increases with maturity. While mature bone has an apatite-like ratio of calcium and phosphate, newly calcified bone is very deficient enriched in phosphate (according to Dallemagne, the initial calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1.29, and it increases to 2.20.) (G. Bourne, 1972; Dallemagne.)' ―The Emporer​

'The chemical study of bone callus, of the embryonic bone and tooth, and of bone periostic origin, reveals that young osseous tissue is far richer in phosphorous as compared with calcium than the adult bone.' ―Marcel Dallemagne​

This is better, and actually now makes sense; but this is still incorrect. The stated 'initial calcium to phosphate ratio [of] 1.29' was never actually assumed by Dallemagne to represent the initial calcium to phosphate ratio in bone. This value—as explained in Dallemagne's second paragraph—corresponds to the claim by Kramer and Shear who'd published this figure, and is a claim Dallemagne actually argues against. Dallemagne personally had measured ratios as low as .35 for newly-formed bone and had mentioned that Roche had observed values even lower. Dallemagne concludes the article with this statement:

'It is but a coincidence that the Ca/P ratio touches the value 1.29 and in no way explains the presence of brushite in bone in course of formation.' ―Dallemagne​

I think he had probably meant to say this:

'The earliest deposition of crystals on implanted material is calcium carbonate. (J. Vuola, et al, 1996.) In newly formed bone, the phosphate content is low, and increases with maturity. While mature bone has an apatite-like ratio of calcium and phosphate, newly calcified bone is very deficient enriched in phosphate (according to Dallemagne, the initial calcium to phosphorus ratio is 1.29 ≤ .35, and it increases to 2.20.) (G. Bourne, 1972; Dallemagne.)' ―Ray Peat, PhD
​

I'm not sure if your emperor has any clothes; perhaps you should start calling him by his first & last name?

[1] Dallemagne, Marcel J. "The theory of primary calcification in bone." Nature (1948)​

Thank you for the correction, so that was an emperror.
What I still don't understand is how calcium carbonate could be harmful.

 

[Travis]

Thank you for the correction, so that was an emperror.
What I still don't understand is how calcium carbonate could be harmful.

I would use calcium carbonate, and see it as a fine thing to have around.

I was thinking that Ray Peat wouldn't even want to be Emperor anyway because it'd be a bit 'too authoritarian' for him. I'd then begun to imagine that even if he were forced to assume the role of Emperor, he'd dissolve the Empire and the title itself would necessarily follow. Hence: Ray Peat cannot be the Emperor because if he were, there would be no such thing as 'The Emperor.'

...but there is a stately picture of Albert Szent–Györgi online that sort of-looks like the bust of Carinus.

 

[Amazoniac]

:)

 

[cyclops]

I would use calcium carbonate, and see it as a fine thing to have around.

Do you think there is much difference between calcium carbonate you can buy online and making your own eggshell calcium?

 

[Amazoniac]

Do you think there is much difference between calcium carbonate you can buy online and making your own eggshell calcium?

The difference is the protein structure that holds an eggshell in its form, this can make it harder to digest. On the other hand, calcium carbonate from limestone might contain more impurities than eggshells.

Research on eggshell structure and quality: an historical overview
"Rather than simple layers of crystals of calcium carbonate, the shell was shown to consist of a very complex type of mineral formation, with a protein matrix as its foundation."

The eggshell: structure, composition and mineralization

 

[cyclops]

The difference is the protein structure that holds an eggshell in its form, this can make it harder to digest. On the other hand, calcium carbonate from limestone might contain more impurities than eggshells.

Research on eggshell structure and quality: an historical overview
"Rather than simple layers of crystals of calcium carbonate, the shell was shown to consist of a very complex type of mineral formation, with a protein matrix as its foundation."

Hmmm Interesting. I'm not really worried about the impurities as I seem to do ok with either, but the thing about the eggshells having complex minerals and proteins makes me think it is probably superior (as most real foods usually are).

 

[x-ray peat]

had me curious too but I think we are ok
"Eggshell powder is a natural source of calcium and other elements (e.g. strontium and fluorine) which may have a positive effect on bone metabolism. ... The bioavailability of calcium from this source, as tested in piglets, was similar or better than that of food grade purified calcium carbonate." Eggshell calcium in the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[ecstatichamster]

It might neutralize stomach acid = digestive issues

 

[Amazoniac]

had me curious too but I think we are ok
"Eggshell powder is a natural source of calcium and other elements (e.g. strontium and fluorine) which may have a positive effect on bone metabolism. ... The bioavailability of calcium from this source, as tested in piglets, was similar or better than that of food grade purified calcium carbonate." Eggshell calcium in the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI

That's surprising!

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anne_Schaafsma2 "eggshell"

Eggshell calcium in the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis (Full-text)​

Do you think this is because of other nutrients like cyclops mentioned? I remember Ray commenting somewhere that the body has difficulty handling extremely pure nutrients, can't remember where he said that.
What about the need for proteins in the meal to intensify gastric of the acids secretion?

 

[x-ray peat]

That's surprising!

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anne_Schaafsma2 "eggshell"

Eggshell calcium in the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis (Full-text)​

Do you think this is because of other nutrients like cyclops mentioned? I remember Ray commenting somewhere that the body has difficulty handling extremely pure nutrients, can't remember where he said that.
What about the need for proteins in the meal to intensify gastric of the acids secretion?

that sounds pretty reasonable.
I know vitamin companies also sell eggshell membrane so Im sure that also helps with something

 

[Dolomite]

I have been using some ground eggshell with my 5 cups of OJ everyday for the past week in order to boost my Ca to Phos ratio. And I haven't experienced any unusual muscle cramping like I did when I tried this using calcium carbonate. I haven't increased the Mg I take so it may be that eggshell is utilized better.

I grind eggshells from hard boiled eggs.

 

[tara]

It might neutralize stomach acid = digestive issues

+1.
And reduce the stomach's ability to kill food-borne pathogens. Especially if stomach acid is a bit weak to begin with. Especially if supplemented around eating time. Maybe could mitigate this by having it an hour or two before/after food?

 

[Amazoniac]

that sounds pretty reasonable.
I know vitamin companies also sell eggshell membrane so Im sure that also helps with something

And I knovv that considcring Dolornitc's cxpcricnce is suspicious to sav thc lcast, but that's vvhat vou can cxpect frorn poorcr absorption with cggshclls (sornc of it possiblv passing as sand) and thc crarnping vvith calciurn carbonatc frorn clcan absorption. But it can also bc that thcrc's sorncthing in cggshcll that allovvs it to bc bcttcr rnctabolizcd. VVhat arn I rnissing? ||||||